[RESTO] anyone tried going past 13k hbp with SOTF spec ?

[Alltat]

there u go :3 now just select edit weights and go and select your haste cap with SOTF

You're missing the point. There are haste caps that are specific to SotF. The point is that you should never reforge for them.

well that rly depends on your rotation of spells.... with mine it more like 95% SOTF and 5% without..... since its used for spells that roughly stays on the targets for 10-15 secs which would mean a new SOTF spell would be rdy 2 be cast....

Then you'd gain far more by using Wild Growth more than you'd gain from reforging. On fights with constant incoming damage, you should be glyphing WG and using it on cooldown, while saving Swiftmend to use it with every other Wild Growth (using it just before WG comes off cooldowns).

Either way, more haste won't help you if all you get is a SotF breakpoint. There was a long thread on the subject a week or so back. Aside from 3k and 13k, reforging to haste is not worth the loss of mastery or crit.

[Deleted]

Then you'd gain far more by using Wild Growth more than you'd gain from reforging. On fights with constant incoming damage, you should be glyphing WG and using it on cooldown, while saving Swiftmend to use it with every other Wild Growth (using it just before WG comes off cooldowns).

well thats what I do... but I also use the SOTF on other situations.... so the SOTF spells are basicly up all the time....

Either way, more haste won't help you if all you get is a SotF breakpoint. There was a long thread on the subject a week or so back. Aside from 3k and 13k, reforging to haste is not worth the loss of mastery or crit.

all I get isn't just a SOTF haste cap :P but casting speed is better, efflorence tick more and so on xD which is why im experimenting with it atm :3 and about the thread u are talking xD I haven't been able 2 find ANY threads about going past the 13k haste cap xD which is why I made this one :3 too see if anyone have tried or had math on this :3

But atm it seems perfectly in HC raids :3 we were able to 2man heal now instead of 3man heal :3

[Alltat]

cant rly see how rly see how im hindering my guilds progress with getting more haste...

If getting that haste reduces your overall throughput and results in you being less able to do your job as a healer, that's going to (marginally) hinder your guilds progress. The point is that getting more haste beyond 13k will achieve the opposite of what you're trying to do. You're thinking about getting more haste because you think it'll let you do a little bit more healing with the gear you have. The actual result would unfortunately be the opposite. You can't get more haste without giving up crit or mastery, and those stats are both better beyond 13k haste. Unless a breakpoint benefits Rejuvenation, it's not worth it.

[Deleted]

If getting that haste reduces your overall throughput and results in you being less able to do your job as a healer, that's going to (marginally) hinder your guilds progress. The point is that getting more haste beyond 13k will achieve the opposite of what you're trying to do. You're thinking about getting more haste because you think it'll let you do a little bit more healing with the gear you have. The actual result would unfortunately be the opposite. You can't get more haste without giving up crit or mastery, and those stats are both better beyond 13k haste. Unless a breakpoint benefits Rejuvenation, it's not worth it.

do u have calculations or numbers to back this up ?? would love too see them tbh but atm in HC I output more hps, and healing done now after getting this haste cap than what I did last week plus we progressed even further than last week :3 but yeah im not saying that I dont believe u but i just haven't been able too find any calculation on this which is why I made this thread :3

[Thalur]

This is actually a giant troll thread and I would suggest to stop responding to it. I covered everything in my first post and this guy is basically sticking his fingers into his ears and repeats his silly statements. Seriously, if you don't want people to help you, why post on the forums?

OP has no clue about healing and seems to have no intention of changing that.

[Deleted]

This is actually a giant troll thread and I would suggest to stop responding to it. I covered everything in my first post and this guy is basically sticking his fingers into his ears and repeats his silly statements. Seriously, if you don't want people to help you, why post on the forums?

OP has no clue about healing and seems to have no intention of changing that.

isn't rly a troll thread :3 but feel free to do so.... plus i haven't rly made any statement :3 I only wrote what i've seen myself with my own experiment from my HC raids with the 16.8k and 19.7k hbp plus what u wrote in the your first post doesn't take many things in considering :3

[Thandorr]

I really don't see why you would change your reforges for 1 cast every 15 seconds which will result in diminished healing for every cast/GCD in between. The loss of the 95% is greater than the increase of the 5%. Go and look at the math that has already been supplied and quit trolling.

/thread.

[Mirri]

cant rly see how rly see how im hindering my guilds progress with getting more haste.... last night we were actually able 2 go with 2 healers instead of 3 man heals since my HoTs was able 2 heal up ppl faster......

and yeah im stating that about 90-95% of my heals is affected by SOTF if u dont take efflorrence in the consindering since its only the extra haste and not the SOTF itself that have an effect on that.... WG and reju should be your top heals beside efflorrence... and u easy have the time 2 place SOTF with those spells.... but yeah ofc I dont know how your rotation is but I hope for yourself that it isn't spamming regrowth everywhere :3

but yeah as stated in the first post the thread was more about if ppl had any xp or theory on going past the 13k hbp.... and u've said is that u would lose spirit and mastery on going that far :P but as for now i've actually gained at those parts :3

So by putting more stats into haste, you actually gained stats in mastery and spirit ? Is this what I am reading from your last line ?

[Deleted]

So by putting more stats into haste, you actually gained stats in mastery and spirit ? Is this what I am reading from your last line ?

nope :3 got more haste with using 2 AMP trinkets which also increases mastery and spirit :3 and thats where the gain is got about 1-1,5k on each

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I really don't see why you would change your reforges for 1 cast every 15 seconds which will result in diminished healing for every cast/GCD in between. The loss of the 95% is greater than the increase of the 5%. Go and look at the math that has already been supplied and quit trolling.

/thread.

well the thing is that its not just for 1 spell each 15 secs since haste decreases GCD, casting speed and efflorrence gain ticks faster, tranq get more ticks, bigger chance on procing stuff and so on.... and I dont rly see where u find the mat here on this thread... what ppl have wrote is numbers but there's no calculation in that... i could also write tons of numbers without having any math backing it up :3 but yeah im not saying that they aren't right with their numbers :3

[Jordaen]

nope :3 got more haste with using 2 AMP trinkets which also increases mastery and spirit :3 and thats where the gain is got about 1-1,5k on each

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well the thing is that its not just for 1 spell each 15 secs since haste decreases GCD, casting speed and efflorrence gain ticks faster and so on.... and I dont rly see where u find the mat here on this thread... what ppl have wrote is numbers but there's no calculation in that... i could also write tons of numbers without having any math backing it up :3 but yeah im not saying that they aren't right with their numbers :3

The thing that you're not getting is that the haste that you get past the 13k break point will be less healing EVEN including the extra ticks on efflorescence than if you simply stayed at 13k haste and put the rest into mastery. Running double amp trinkets isn't worth it, because to get the dps one to proc you have to melee the boss, and you don't melee while you're casting, and it's not guaranteed to proc exactly off the ICD so you're wasting valuable time slapping the boss rather than idk...healing?

the math for this is all over the forums. Look at other threads that are asking about the 13k break point, or read elitist jerks. You will not gain healing if you gear solely for your SotF cap. It isn't worth it, don't do it. I'm speaking as a heroic druid healer that has also looked into all of this. Doing weird things like this almost never works because some other top druid would have figured it out and it would be the norm. Being a special snowflake when it comes to healing is not a good idea.


P.S. It's really REALLY hard to understand :3 you when you xD do this every three words :3 so if you could idk lay off the smilies that'd xD be like great. :3


:3

[ryklin]

well the thing is that its not just for 1 spell each 15 secs since haste decreases GCD, casting speed and efflorrence gain ticks faster, tranq get more ticks, bigger chance on procing stuff and so on.... and I dont rly see where u find the mat here on this thread... what ppl have wrote is numbers but there's no calculation in that... i could also write tons of numbers without having any math backing it up :3 but yeah im not saying that they aren't right with their numbers :3

the issue with haste outside of the main breakpoints for us isn't that it gives bad increases to healing, it's that past breakpoints, it provides significantly less healing because you're taking secondary stats that won't effect rejuv, wild growth, SotF regrowth, SotF rejuv, lifebloom, SotF lifebloom, and tranquility (about 40-50% of our healing) when you could be taking mastery which would increase healing from those spells

tranq has breakpoints just like any other hot and won't get any more ticks until you're well past 20k haste around the 3rd extra tick of rejuv, and it still wouldn't be worth it as you'd be well past the gcd cap

rppm haste scaling has been fixed, so all you'll get is a few clearcasts per fight as far as procs

rejuv comes gcd capped and that's a lot of our gcds

we don't need to supply math because you're refusing just simple reasoning, if you want us to agree with you, link a log where rejuv, tranq, and WG are less than 20% of your healing and we'll talk
all we're saying is haste past the liked breakpoints doesn't affect rejuv, or tranq, and WG breakpoints is very much not worth it
we don't need math to do this when we've been assuming the breakpoint is proven

there is no definite math I can provide w/o pulling a direct number for each heals % out of my ass as it'll be different for every fight and each SotF WG and WG breakpoint you pass while taking haste past the rejuv breakpoint, but even then, it wouldn't be preferably to the alternatives of mastery or crit, I mean

TL;DR: go find a wrath/BC private server and play a resto shaman

side note: we need to be able to sage like on japanese textboards

[Thandorr]

You should not be using 2 amp trinkets. The one from sha of pride is the one that is actually intended for healers, but the other one is not. You would receive the amplification in stats (excluding crit because you would have to crit with an attack to benefit from its amplification) but the intellect proc would not proc unless you were in cat form, auto-attacking the boss, or casting damaging spells all of which are a detriment to healing.

You would benefit far more in going for one of the three other trinkets for healers (cleave from thok, multistrike from nazgrim or static int/regen from siegecrafter).

We have an issue of stat weights. Haste up to the point of 13163 has a stat weight of 0.8 in terms of healing throughput; once it has reached 13163 it now has a weight of 0.3 which is far below mastery, crit and even spirit (in terms of effective stat budget spent). With every point of haste you are taking beyond 13163 you are reducing your effectiveness because the benefits from that point on are less than the benefits received from mastery, crit and spirit.

[theburned]

isn't rly a troll thread :3 but feel free to do so.... plus i haven't rly made any statement :3 I only wrote what i've seen myself with my own experiment from my HC raids with the 16.8k and 19.7k hbp plus what u wrote in the your first post doesn't take many things in considering :3

at 19k your other spells start to fall under the gcd cap, never even try to go for it. Also at these values any single stat would start falling off no matter how strong it is.

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You're missing the point. There are haste caps that are specific to SotF. The point is that you should never reforge for them.

It's better to go for SotF caps rather than going for a random amount of more haste, though the breakpoint is optimal.
Haste is certainly not as strong when not at the breakpoint, but it still increases your throughput and is also a cheaper stat, a lot of people seem to think that haste doesn't increase the throughput for rejuvenation, which is weird as last time I checked it ticks faster which means increased throughput.

Wild growth gains 2-3 ticks on it with sotf so you are covering so that spell gets increased throughput too, and also efflorence is based on all spells thus gets the throughput too. until gcd HT and regrowth also gains from haste....now we are left with...which spell exactly? oh Lifebloom, which also gains from having more haste, swiftmend also gains the gcd.

There are 2 downsides to going haste though, that is mana consumption for output is way higher. Then it is the fact that you spend more gcd's to get the extra healing. The reason we go for breakpoints is that the breakpoints remove the downsides from haste.

So going for anything, but the breakpoint is not optimal for throughput as you need more spirit because of more mana consumption, and also loses out on some throughput, but it is not as much as people seem to believe. In the end it is a choice of playstyle.

[Mirri]

at 19k your other spells start to fall under the gcd cap, never even try to go for it. Also at these values any single stat would start falling off no matter how strong it is.

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It's better to go for SotF caps rather than going for a random amount of more haste, though the breakpoint is optimal.
Haste is certainly not as strong when not at the breakpoint, but it still increases your throughput and is also a cheaper stat, a lot of people seem to think that haste doesn't increase the throughput for rejuvenation, which is weird as last time I checked it ticks faster which means increased throughput.

Wild growth gains 2-3 ticks on it with sotf so you are covering so that spell gets increased throughput too, and also efflorence is based on all spells thus gets the throughput too. until gcd HT and regrowth also gains from haste....now we are left with...which spell exactly? oh Lifebloom, which also gains from having more haste, swiftmend also gains the gcd.

There are 2 downsides to going haste though, that is mana consumption for output is way higher. Then it is the fact that you spend more gcd's to get the extra healing. The reason we go for breakpoints is that the breakpoints remove the downsides from haste.

So going for anything, but the breakpoint is not optimal for throughput as you need more spirit because of more mana consumption, and also loses out on some throughput, but it is not as much as people seem to believe. In the end it is a choice of playstyle.

Do you even know what you are spewing out ?
The extra mastery/spirit that you lose by moving to 19k haste far outweighs 2 extra ticks of SoTF. So no, it's not a throughput increase to dump mastery for 19k haste.

Also, rejuv doesn't tick faster in any meaningful way In order to increase throughput when it's between haste break points. Kindly learn how dot/hot breakpoints work.

[asiltopbrlol]

this guy is comical.

[strangerdanger]

So according to this thread I should just drop my 8033 breakpoint that I've been using and just drop down to 3043 haste for lots of mastery?? I have really terrible itemization so the 13k breakpoint isn't possible even with a 562 ilvl unfortunately. :/

The problem I have with the 3043 haste breakpoint is that SO much of my healing will end up being overhealing due to the mw monk and holy paladin getting their heals in before mine.

[theburned]

Do you even know what you are spewing out ?
The extra mastery/spirit that you lose by moving to 19k haste far outweighs 2 extra ticks of SoTF. So no, it's not a throughput increase to dump mastery for 19k haste.

Also, rejuv doesn't tick faster in any meaningful way In order to increase throughput when it's between haste break points. Kindly learn how dot/hot breakpoints work.

-.- learn to read will not respond until you actually read the post.

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So according to this thread I should just drop my 8033 breakpoint that I've been using and just drop down to 3043 haste for lots of mastery?? I have really terrible itemization so the 13k breakpoint isn't possible even with a 562 ilvl unfortunately. :/

The problem I have with the 3043 haste breakpoint is that SO much of my healing will end up being overhealing due to the mw monk and holy paladin getting their heals in before mine.

If you can get down to 3k haste you should do so, also if your spells are overhealing what does it matter? As long as you can actually heal them when they are dipping. You should have quite a few instant spells though, but stay at 3k until you can reach 13k.

[kenn9530]

well the thing is that its not just for 1 spell each 15 secs since haste decreases GCD, casting speed and efflorrence gain ticks faster, tranq get more ticks, bigger chance on procing stuff and so on.... and I dont rly see where u find the mat here on this thread... what ppl have wrote is numbers but there's no calculation in that... i could also write tons of numbers without having any math backing it up :3 but yeah im not saying that they aren't right with their numbers :3

haste only reduces the gcd to 1 sec, it can't reduce it any further no matter how much haste you have, aiming for SOTF haste break points is not something you should go for as your only using the buff on one spell every 15 secs which is mostly going to be wild growth, its better to aim for the 13k breakpoint then funnel everything into mastery while maintaining enough spirit as this will give you the largest healing output due to haste having a low priority after the 13k breakpoint.

[theburned]

haste only reduces the gcd to 1 sec, it can't reduce it any further no matter how much haste you have, aiming for SOTF haste break points is not something you should go for as your only using the buff on one spell every 15 secs which is mostly going to be wild growth, its better to aim for the 13k breakpoint then funnel everything into mastery while maintaining enough spirit as this will give you the largest healing output due to haste having a low priority after the 13k breakpoint.

While this post is not an arguement or wheter or not you should go for SotF breakpoints as there is little reason to do it.
As long as you are below 50% haste you will reduce the gcd, which is why I wrote in my last post that you should never aim for the 19.7k cap as then you are 1.4k haste above cap (if I remember gcd cap correctly.)
Though I assume you are referring to the reduced rejuvenation gcd. Which doesn't get reduced by any amount of your haste, so it shouldn't be discussed when it comes to a discussion of wheter further haste is viable, even though not optimal.

[Deleted]

The thing that you're not getting is that the haste that you get past the 13k break point will be less healing EVEN including the extra ticks on efflorescence than if you simply stayed at 13k haste and put the rest into mastery. Running double amp trinkets isn't worth it, because to get the dps one to proc you have to melee the boss, and you don't melee while you're casting, and it's not guaranteed to proc exactly off the ICD so you're wasting valuable time slapping the boss rather than idk...healing?

there are times when u can auto hit a few times... like when run to replace yourself or plus the nice thing about being a resto druid is that your hots doesn't have a casting time :3

the math for this is all over the forums. Look at other threads that are asking about the 13k break point, or read elitist jerks. You will not gain healing if you gear solely for your SotF cap. It isn't worth it, don't do it. I'm speaking as a heroic druid healer that has also looked into all of this. Doing weird things like this almost never works because some other top druid would have figured it out and it would be the norm. Being a special snowflake when it comes to healing is not a good idea.


P.S. It's really REALLY hard to understand :3 you when you xD do this every three words :3 so if you could idk lay off the smilies that'd xD be like great. :3
:3

the whole reason I made this thread was because there wasn't any thread about past the 13k hbp.... only about 13k or under..