US Presidency

[Spectral]

This idea seems kind of naive. The VP is more of an emergency President than a President in waiting. I'm not sure our system is particularly optimal, but I don't think changing this improves it.

[SodiumChloride]

At first, we did. The winner was President, the runner up was Vice President. That didn't work so well. 12th amendment changed it.

What happened? Assassinations?

Well, that could be fixed with multiple VPs and having the elected President select from the pool of VPs his "deputy" who would replace him if he kicks the bucket - maybe with the constraint that the VP being selected can't be one contesting for the Presidency as well.

[Crissi]

What happened? Assassinations?

Well, that could be fixed with multiple VPs and having the elected President select from the pool of VPs his "deputy" who would replace him if he kicks the bucket - maybe with the constraint that the VP being selected can't be one contesting for the Presidency as well.

Having the President be from one party and the VP be from another (which is what happened prior to the amendment), tended to make things unproductive. Try having Obama as President and Cruz as Vice President.

[belfpala]

Well, that could be fixed with multiple VPs and having the elected President select from the pool of VPs his "deputy" who would replace him if he kicks the bucket - maybe with the constraint that the VP being selected can't be one contesting for the Presidency as well.

What problem does this solve?

[Alandalus]

What happened? Assassinations?

Well, that could be fixed with multiple VPs and having the elected President select from the pool of VPs his "deputy" who would replace him if he kicks the bucket - maybe with the constraint that the VP being selected can't be one contesting for the Presidency as well.

Wikipedia

/10char

[Spectral]

What happened? Assassinations?

Nope, Lincoln was our first one in 1865, well after the 12th (1804). Mostly it was just a matter of unforeseen logistical issues with having opposing VP and President picks. There wasn't much good about it even though it sounds like a decent idea. I think the main problem was the experimental nature of the US Constitution at the time of initial passage. They got some really important things right, but they missed as often as you'd expect given the context.

[SodiumChloride]

This idea seems kind of naive. The VP is more of an emergency President than a President in waiting. I'm not sure our system is particularly optimal, but I don't think changing this improves it.

Well, it's one way provide some executive experience for incoming Presidents.

Yes, the role of VP(s) will change (maybe I should have named it something else since it's not quite like the current VP post),
- it will have no term limit (you can be VP for as long as you get re-elected)
- next to no real executive power (ok maybe some limited responsibility to get them involved; but the active President has final say)
- a "requirement" for Presidency but you can go your whole career without ever becoming President

[obdigore]

Well, it's one way provide some executive experience for incoming Presidents.

Yes, the role of VP(s) will change (maybe I should have named it something else since it's not quite like the current VP post),
- it will have no term limit (you can be VP for as long as you get re-elected)
- next to no real executive power (ok maybe some limited responsibility to get them involved; but the active President has final say)
- a "requirement" for Presidency but you can go your whole career without ever becoming President

So what you are saying is that you can be a VP where you don't actually do anything, but that somehow makes you more qualified for being the President than working in Congress or as a Governor?

[Spectral]

- a "requirement" for Presidency but you can go your whole career without ever becoming President

I don't understand how this works? I mean from a mechanical standpoint.

[belfpala]

Well, it's one way provide some executive experience for incoming Presidents.

I'll just say, look at our most respected Presidents. They mostly didn't have much experience before they got the job. (yes, some experience, but not like what you're saying).

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I don't understand how this works? I mean from a mechanical standpoint.

I'm flipping it in my mind and thinking you get voted into a pool of future presidents? Which, isn't that pretty much what Governors and Senators are?

[Spectral]

I'll just say, look at our most respected Presidents. They mostly didn't have much experience before they got the job. (yes, some experience, but not like what you're saying).

The last guy that seems to be more or less universally liked (and maybe the only one from the 20th century) was Eisenhower, and he had essentially no governmental experience. Funny how that works out.

[belfpala]

The last guy that seems to be more or less universally liked (and maybe the only one from the 20th century) was Eisenhower, and he had essentially no governmental experience. Funny how that works out.

I'll just tack on, the last VP to get the job was Bush Sr. Yeah.

[SodiumChloride]

I'll just say, look at our most respected Presidents. They mostly didn't have much experience before they got the job. (yes, some experience, but not like what you're saying).

As I said, more experience couldn't hurt right?

I'm flipping it in my mind and thinking you get voted into a pool of future presidents? Which, isn't that pretty much what Governors and Senators are?

Ya, it's a pool of presidential contenders. I see them having the same access to information as the President, but without the (or much limited; can be overruled by the President) executive power. So they kind of hang back, maybe in private advise/debate with the President, basically get to observe how things work.

Well, I always saw Governors and Senators as their own political posts with their own duties.

[belfpala]

Ya, it's a pool of presidential contenders. [stuff]

Basically, you want to create a useless class of middle management; no actual purpose other than a title and a hope of getting a promotion.

[Crissi]

Basically, you want to create a useless class of middle management; no actual purpose other than a title and a hope of getting a promotion.

Which anyone with actual high level managment experience will tell you is an absolute clusterfuck waiting to happen....

[belfpala]

Which anyone with actual high level managment experience will tell you is an absolute clusterfuck waiting to happen....

I only have limited experience with that (small business), but I know that people are pretty much useless without a defined job. "Defined job" might be as broad as "think of things I didn't think of yet." But that's what the Cabinet level advisers and their staff are already doing.

[Sorrior]

Naw, it's all Franklin D. Roosevelt fault. Had to go and get elected four times... and as a result we have the 22nd amendment to the constitution limiting presidential terms in office. Now if only we could do the same thing for Congress.

You ask me old system wprked better...Guy earned that kinda election rate.

[tratra]

I find this post totally incorrect. Every president is runned by its lobby and people around him. Also to become a president that person has a long run into politics and knows well the drill. So the term "noob" as described is not correct. People behind the president giving him the advices are the ones that have been previously there.

[SodiumChloride]

Basically, you want to create a useless class of middle management; no actual purpose other than a title and a hope of getting a promotion.

Well, as I said, you could give them limited responsibility. Alternatively let them keep their original post before being elected.

My point is, IMHO throwing someone fresh into the job without any "mentorship" - or at the very least worked with their predecessors to see how its like - is a bad idea.

I find this post totally incorrect. Every president is runned by its lobby and people around him. Also to become a president that person has a long run into politics and knows well the drill. So the term "noob" as described is not correct. People behind the president giving him the advices are the ones that have been previously there.

Advisers or no advisers, the leader still has a job to do - unless he is just a figure head.

[belfpala]

Advisers or no advisers, the leader still has a job to do - unless he is just a figure head.

Alright. I'll get down to brass tacks.

The POTUS is a figurehead.

Obama? I have no idea who's running this country. It's certainly not congress. Maybe Michelle?

Bush? No, Cheney was running this place.

Clinton? Perfect salesman for... what was he selling? I can't remember, he was too good his job.

Bush Sr.? Most experienced president in the lifetimes of most people posting here. That didn't work very well.

Reagan? Perfect salesman for you getting screwed.

Carter? I like peanuts too. Why can't we all just like peanuts? Damn it.

Stopping there, just the presidents while I've been alive.