Why Fury is not enjoyable.

[FobManX]

Thanks, that's a great way to put it. Now I can refer to that sentence whenever I'm trying to make my point, lol.

It's funny, last week I was doing Flex wing 4 Siegecrafter and I was soloing the belt, but I accidentally used CS on the boss right before jumping on the belt, and it took me fooooorever to kill the add on the belt. When I got to the belt with CS though it melted ridiculously fast.

I like the concept of CS though, it makes our rotation not really a rotation but a more dynamic priority system. I mean every class shouldn't feel the same.

[Master Guns]

So you think the ICC rotation was more fun? Bloodthirst and WW on cd, HS on every swing? Very rewarding...

Gonna agree with this guy. Pre mid cata and MoP, Fury rotation has been so mind numbingly stupid it was..stupid.

When BT came up, you hit it, when WW came up, you hit it, HS spam all the time unless you're rage starved. That was *it*. How is that "more rewarding"?

[Deleted]

- - - Updated - - -

Link your character. It's more likely that your toon is just undergeared. Fury is a lot more fun at higher gear levels, due to a smoother rotation.

Thats why i said gem crit. You seem to be doing the exact same that i said so why do you say im wrong?

[Archimtiros]

Gonna agree with this guy. Pre mid cata and MoP, Fury rotation has been so mind numbingly stupid it was..stupid.

When BT came up, you hit it, when WW came up, you hit it, HS spam all the time unless you're rage starved. That was *it*. How is that "more rewarding"?

It wasn't difficult but its was very spammy, thus engaging, and for most people that means fun. Most people don't like downtime in a rotation, so they enjoy it when they always have something to press. And don't forget the huge wall of yellow numbers we saw when dealing damage. It was also pretty over tuned at the time, being on top of meters = fun for a lot of people (ask any Warlock this expansion).

Wrath Fury did have some complexity in its rotation early on, due to Rend stance dancing (though it was admittedly only a marginal dps increase at best), though it mostly went away once you got the tier set bonus for Slam. Regardless of the reason, most people herald that as the heyday of Fury until now. At even semi decent gear levels (~T16 normal) I think Fury's rotation now is the best its ever been in this game (having played Fury since patch 1.11/Naxx 40).

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -



Thats why i said gem crit. You seem to be doing the exact same that i said so why do you say im wrong?

It was the way you said socketing:

You say "hey but this socket bonus gives free 180str?" No, +320crit, 160crit/hit/exp crit everywhere until you are 49% crit unbuffed. You can start gemming for mastery sooner if you still wanna get Bloodthirsts that dont crit.

This is not accurate. You will (almost) never skip a high Str bonus, will often skip hit/exp bonuses, especially given the itemization this tier, 49% crit means nothing and and you shouldn't ever be gemming Mastery.

Insofar as (almost) always gemming Crit, you are correct; but the above stated reasons for doing so are what he was pointing out as incorrect.

[BEYR]

The only thing I dislike about Fury is the dependance on cooldowns. Get forced off the boss and miss your CS+cooldows window and you hit like a wet noodle for 2 minutes. This only really matters for the first few weeks of a boss when you aren't 100% on the mechanics but some fights (shamans) are hectic enough that it still happens. AOE isn't great but for single target you get to feel like a little god 6 seconds at a time.

[Archimtiros]

The only thing I dislike about Fury is the dependance on cooldowns. Get forced off the boss and miss your CS+cooldows window and you hit like a wet noodle for 2 minutes. This only really matters for the first few weeks of a boss when you aren't 100% on the mechanics but some fights (shamans) are hectic enough that it still happens. AOE isn't great but for single target you get to feel like a little god 6 seconds at a time.

That is very true, but its highlighted in other classes as well (and even worse), most notably in Enh Shamans. Enh Shamans have the highest burst potential in the game, but are serious rag dolls outside of that burst.
This is something that the developers have been looking at for a long time, and want to change (CD stacking, exponential burst inside CD's, even pre-potting), but have yet to decide the best way to do so. Of course, no matter the change to burst CD's, we will still be reliant on CS; but that ability isn't the real culprit.

[CollisionTD]

I've always felt like Fury is one of the better classes for swapping targets because we have very little ramp up time, as far as personal debuffs/buffs go. You just need to know when to delay CS for the swap.

[BEYR]

That is very true, but its highlighted in other classes as well (and even worse), most notably in Enh Shamans. Enh Shamans have the highest burst potential in the game, but are serious rag dolls outside of that burst.
This is something that the developers have been looking at for a long time, and want to change (CD stacking, exponential burst inside CD's, even pre-potting), but have yet to decide the best way to do so. Of course, no matter the change to burst CD's, we will still be reliant on CS; but that ability isn't the real culprit.

Lengthening CS tp 8 or 10 seconds and lowering the bypassed armor to ~80% would help level out the spikes but would make you feel considerably weaker. They could also lock out other dps cooldowns when one is active. Neither would make fury feel any better. Not having dead space in the rotation would be a nice change and would also level out the spikes. I think that was WS intention but it doesn't proc enough or do any real damage. So long as it doesn't go back to the "watch tv until execute" days I'm happy with little tweaks.

- - - Updated - - -

I've always felt like Fury is one of the better classes for swapping targets because we have very little ramp up time, as far as personal debuffs/buffs go. You just need to know when to delay CS for the swap.

Swapping isn't a huge issue. AOE absolutely sucks because CS is per target tho. Speccing out for AOE is supposed to kill your top end. I get that. But almost all SoO bosses have a huge add phase. You get stuck feeling useless at some point in every fight or you lose a significant amount of DPS on the burn phases.

[Archimtiros]

Lengthening CS tp 8 or 10 seconds and lowering the bypassed armor to ~80% would help level out the spikes but would make you feel considerably weaker. They could also lock out other dps cooldowns when one is active. Neither would make fury feel any better. Not having dead space in the rotation would be a nice change and would also level out the spikes.

That CS change would be real bad, we wouldn't have the rage to fill out the debuff.
We don't have any dead space in the rotation at higher gear levels though. Its actually quite fluid.

Speccing out for AOE is supposed to kill your top end. I get that.

Tell that to DK's! Luckily they are a lot lower this tier so no big, but it still grinds my gears that we lost WW as a part of our normal rotation because "passive cleave shouldn't be part of your ST rotation" yet they retained HB.

[Deleted]

Swapping isn't a huge issue. AOE absolutely sucks because CS is per target tho. Speccing out for AOE is supposed to kill your top end. I get that. But almost all SoO bosses have a huge add phase. You get stuck feeling useless at some point in every fight or you lose a significant amount of DPS on the burn phases.

While bladestorming into 20 CS'd adds would be hilarious i think it's not needed, at least this tier with bladestorm on 40-42sg CD aligning nicely with the big add waves spawn rate.

Also, you don't give up "a significant amout of DPS" by picking bladestorm instead of dragon roar. In most bosses you end up even with more damage on the "focus" target because of the DR on dragon roar and in others you gain some QoL advantages like being able to position yourself on Malkorok or not being knocked back on IJ.

[FobManX]

In most bosses you end up even with more damage on the "focus" target because of the DR on dragon roar and in others you gain some QoL advantages like being able to position yourself on Malkorok or not being knocked back on IJ.

Wait, does using BS make you immune to IJ's knockback?? I've never tried that, always assumed DR was the way to go.

[Archimtiros]

It does not.

[Deleted]

It does, at least used to, you take damage but don't get launched across half Durotar.

[Skarssen]

Tell that to DK's! Luckily they are a lot lower this tier so no big, but it still grinds my gears that we lost WW as a part of our normal rotation because "passive cleave shouldn't be part of your ST rotation" yet they retained HB.

I think most DKs would agree with you. It feels awful to spam a spell as a melee class. Unfortunately for DKs, we stink so badly that spamming HB on 2 targets only nets about the same damage fury does on single target

[Deleted]

Fury is not enjoyable. Specially whenever there's AoE dmg. So easy on some bosses to get rage starved while AoE'ing and you're so much behind in case of AoEing. I agree with OP totally.

[Park]

Wait, does using BS make you immune to IJ's knockback?? I've never tried that, always assumed DR was the way to go.

Last time I used BS on IJ, I didn't get knockback at all. But this was a month or so ago. It might have changed since then.

[Sainur]

I've always enjoyed fury, and will always stay fury. I don't like arms, even if it is a bit better on dps... I don't care.

Fury in MoP is a bit, uh. I don't know. I wouldn't say broken, it just feel different than Cataclysm, but it's not boring imo.

[Archimtiros]

Last time I used BS on IJ, I didn't get knockback at all. But this was a month or so ago. It might have changed since then.

I could have swore you do get KB, but I could be wrong. Regardless, IJ is about the only fight where Dragon Roar is clearly better. You couldn't BS through all three KB's anyway; so its usefulness in that regard is cut drastically; and IJ is about the only true single target fight of the tier.
I use a combination of Glider, Heroic Leap, and Charge to ignore the knockback, and when all else fails; rocket boots to get back on target in a minimal amount of time. Combine with Defensive Stance/CD's as needed; you can survive the whole phase without any healers on you, if that is your guilds strat.

[Feronar]

I don't enjoy fury because I hate the sound of Wild Strike.

The Wild Strike sound is still better than the Kill Command (BM Hunter) sound. The one that goes SHIKSHIKSHIKSHIKSHIK, it's really annoying.

[Sliske]

The probability of getting 11 consecutive non-crits on bloodthirst is similar to winning the lottery. That's a pretty fun spec.

I've had 6 in a row twice on one thok pull, 3-4 in a row 4-5 times a fight many times as well as the one you made a graph for. Every time it happens i basically feel like quitting raiding. (and actually have, but for other reasons.) Sitting hitting nothing but wild strike and feeling like pure filth for c.smashing just for the storm bolt dmg after your 5th blood thirst doesn't crit is just disgustingly annoying.

I'm fairly certain im not as unlucky as that

I hope..

I think fury over all is a fairly skill (due to reaction time on decision making) based spec and do enjoy it when i actually have buttons to press. You can really tell that the general population of the fury warrior spec are mostly bad a making decisions as fury. Still, its annoying when you get shat upon 5 times a fight with 3-4 non crit BTs in a row just as your trinket procs or just as you need the raging blows for meat cleaver or whatever.

Whats even more scarier than RNG taking you for spin every now and then is the fact that next expansion when we're sitting at 21-25% crit again in t17, 7-10 BT non crits in a row will be as common as 3-4 right now. I'd tell you to think about that for a moment, but you probably remember how vomit worthy t14 fury was to play in blues and MSV purples

Its fun when you can play it, but i won't miss raiding as it at all.