Thread: Help our mage!

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LI2Atronach View Post
    he should fix this to improve performance... or take IW ^^
    IW? No. All this player needs is a tracker for Invocation. Simple as that. Adding IW to the mix for he/she would end in utter disaster.

  2. #22
    dunnw how many times I said this on these forums... maybe as much as post I've got.....

    If you dont play the very edge.... it is completely fine to specc IW and NEVER use the active ability.... the dmg loss compared to Invocation or Rune is not that big.... and it makes life a lot easier especially for those who struggle in keepiung up the buff or proper rune placement.

    IW is completely viable as long as you are not a hardcore raider and it is a huge QoL gain.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by LI2Atronach View Post
    dunnw how many times I said this on these forums... maybe as much as post I've got.....

    If you dont play the very edge.... it is completely fine to specc IW and NEVER use the active ability.... the dmg loss compared to Invocation or Rune is not that big.... and it makes life a lot easier especially for those who struggle in keepiung up the buff or proper rune placement.

    IW is completely viable as long as you are not a hardcore raider and it is a huge QoL gain.
    No the damage lost by not using IW actively is actually quite large. Even this mage who has terrible uptime on invocation still averaged a higher dps gain than not using the IW active. Less than 40% uptime on invocation is the breakpoint for IW without active pulling ahead (assuming constant dps, in reality this can vary drastically depending if you have invocation up during cooldowns etc.).

    Realistically IW is not a viable option unless you will use the active properly and if you can't manage Invocation I doubt you can manage IW.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulandia View Post
    Less than 40% uptime on invocation is the breakpoint for IW without active pulling ahead
    pls proof this statement - and pls don't tell me 0,4*0,15=0,06

    ever remembered Evocation has a cast time which IW doesn't have? (suppose Evo need 2,5sek so 60/57,5 = 1,043 so gain 4,3% of casting time compared to invocation... dps increase? maybe...) maybe you ever had to evocate or missed the buff when a trinket was running? There are a lot of things most ppls don't recognize about IW.... it really isnt't that bad as most ppl say ^^
    Last edited by LI2Atronach; 2013-12-14 at 07:13 PM.

  5. #25
    I did acknowledge that in practice it is slightly different however your argument is still completely anecdotal, in reality IW without the active is not even slightly comparable to either of the other choices for DPS gain.

    Also what mage in SoO has a 2.5s evocation? That's like 17% haste or something.

  6. #26
    o0
    You claimed to know the brakpoint and still dont proof it. Yes maybe 2s evocation.... still you are just calculating somehow "one-dimentional" Don't tell me my argument is anectotal if you make IW worse than it really is and can't proof your false point.
    IW is comparable to the others.... (even) without the active part
    In addition: There is so much more random number genreation or in this caste dot snapshoting which will have snignificantly more impact on your dmg than the choise of Invoc vs. IW - This thread is about helping a mage who hasent even cleared SoO on normal mode. Don't tell me 5% more dmg on lvl 90 talent will change this instantly....
    I am sure taking IW will help him play the mage with less struggles and thus improving his performance.

  7. #27
    .... taking IW is such a dumb idea, it's not hard to keep improving your uptime with evocation. he shouldn't take a lesser choice just because he isn't a hardcore raider. im sure he wants to do better dps, he just doesn't know how. so instead of telling him to play like an idiot, help him learn.

    "Aaah ah ah ah ah ah ah yea, f*ck me, ah, f*ck, aah yeah"
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by LI2Atronach View Post
    pls proof this statement - and pls don't tell me 0,4*0,15=0,06
    Am not really proving his thing, but Invocation should be calculated by 1.15*60/(60+cast time) last time I checked. If you want continuous buff then it would be 1.15*(60-cast time)/60. If you want to calculate uptimes to total damage boost, I think the correct way would be (1.15*60+((60/(uptime percentage/100)-60-cast time))/(60/(uptime percentage/100)

    Now if things are wrong don't shoot me, because my last math course was 5 years ago

  9. #29
    ok besides IW not adumb idea.... Lot of ppls keep saying so, but cmon those 5% less dmg... who cares about 5% dmg in a casual guid?

    A little Hint: Look at Post #2 in this Thread.... Even though you might not know players who struggle in playing in a way which is considered "very easy or comon sense" by an experienced player.... Trust me those people also play WoW... You don't even need Addons to display Proccs anymore, and still 20 FFB were missed to cast by this player... and so on...

    So the reminder to use an indicator if there is an proc to use... e.g. blizzard auras or any other addon and the advice to use a talent which doen't need any attention is a good advice... If you want to go out there calling casual players who use IW ideots... well I can't stop you doing that fearist, but I just shake my head in disbelieve of such a behavior.

  10. #30
    So taking IW you're assuming he is going to use the talent for the 15% buff, right? Because if not, then he's losing 9% damage over the course of a fight. I'll take someone who uses Invo shakily in a fight than someone who just takes IW for the passive 6%. At least the Invo user is trying.

    Don't think your shit doesn't stink. You're going after everyone else that says to take Invo.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by fearist View Post
    .... taking IW is such a dumb idea, it's not hard to keep improving your uptime with evocation. he shouldn't take a lesser choice just because he isn't a hardcore raider. im sure he wants to do better dps, he just doesn't know how. so instead of telling him to play like an idiot, help him learn.
    It's all good that you point people that/why they are wrong, but there is absolutely no reason to be demeaning while doing that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also as a reminder to everyone as well.. Be friendly and constructive.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    So taking IW you're assuming he is going to use the talent for the 15% buff, right?
    Please read more than one post before making a non sense comment. Read the thread and think.

    But again some point if oyu are too lazy:
    There are some points which you should consider before dooming IW instantly.
    First of all: There is absolutely no gain to use IW over Invocation if you use IW actively. (at least just in very rare cases which don't matter here) - more complex maintain and no bigger dmg buff than Invoc. That is why I am always recomending to pick IW as a passive Talent and never use it. See Post #13 and 15 in this Thread
    The 6% vs 15% is whrong as you don't loose casttime with IW which make about 3% more casttime and thus dmg gain for IW PLUS you never have have the problem to loose your dmg buff when a trinket is active.

    Second: There really are players out there who stuggle hard keeping up a buff like invo.... it is not that they dont try, fory any reason some are overchallenged by using proccs keeping up bomb, keeping up buffs and not standign in fire... sry it is like that and those player really can use this Option as it helpf them to struggel less.

    Third: I know you are going to hate me... but IW is also viable for heroic progression as arcane. Yep standing still fights are better with rune.. but meh.. you can be lazy on farm fights ^^ and some progressfight are better with IW due to movement requirement.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Henzington View Post
    I have been close to oom before even as fire with enough pyroblast procs you can really drain your mana.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48108

    ...I know I'm probably being trolled but just in case anyone forgot.

    And with the other guy, yeah, if you spam frostbolts and nothing else for 2 minutes straight, you'll have some mana issues. But you probably have much bigger issues than just mana if that's all you're doing.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    ...I know I'm probably being trolled but just in case anyone forgot.
    I don't think he is trolling. there is just missing any punctuation.
    Try the scentence this way:

    " I have been close to oom before, even as fire with enough Pyroblast procs. You can really drain your mana."
    oom before was menat as before the invore buffs falls off...
    and enough pyroblasts meant nomana cost spells... so even with lot of freecast spells he gets oom
    At least that's the way I understand what Henzington says.

    Barely anyone here is trolling. Cause it isnt of any help.

    To the point
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    And with the other guy, yeah, if you spam frostbolts and nothing else for 2 minutes straight, you'll have some mana issues. But you probably have much bigger issues than just mana if that's all you're doing.
    Those issues are the reason for this Thread...

  15. #35
    pyromelter i hope u are joking. there were times that i was so unlucky with the procs that in a fight with hero at start i was oom with the invo buff having still 10 seconds till it runs out. it can happen

  16. #36
    I can solve this-

    Roll a real class like warlock!

    Infracted for trolling.
    Last edited by mrgreenthump; 2013-12-15 at 09:31 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Cellyna View Post
    pyromelter i hope u are joking. there were times that i was so unlucky with the procs that in a fight with hero at start i was oom with the invo buff having still 10 seconds till it runs out. it can happen
    I think that happened to me like... once, in mogu'shan vaults or something.

    It's one of the reasons why you don't always wait for that HU to hit your alter time macro.

    Really, I can't imagine you guys are doing it right. With inferno blast, and if you are moving, you should be firing instant pyros. Something that doesn't get discussed enough is that instant pyro while moving is a dps gain over waiting for a HU proc and then firing it off.

    If you are going OOM in SoO, again I would say that going OOM is the least of your problems, and likely a symptom of incorrect play.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    I think that happened to me like... once, in mogu'shan vaults or something.

    It's one of the reasons why you don't always wait for that HU to hit your alter time macro.

    Really, I can't imagine you guys are doing it right. With inferno blast, and if you are moving, you should be firing instant pyros. Something that doesn't get discussed enough is that instant pyro while moving is a dps gain over waiting for a HU proc and then firing it off.

    If you are going OOM in SoO, again I would say that going OOM is the least of your problems, and likely a symptom of incorrect play.
    Really? What has this got to do with the toppic? Do you deny it is possible to go oom (with or withour proccluck/unluck)? You really call different mage with 10+ HC down, they would do something wrong?
    Please stop trolling...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    Mana is a complete non issue for fire and frost, and this mage is frost. I don't even think it is possible to go OOM as frost unless you are actively being mana drained by a priest or something (if mana drains are still in the game, which I don't even know).
    Already quoted and said this before.... Are you really playing a mage? Lot of others report about going oom... it is not a common issue as mage is not supposed to go oom, but it can! happen.... well see above...

  19. #39
    People, people, people.. This is not a can mage go oom discussion thread. Yes fire can go oom, but it's the most unlikely thing in the world as you got mana gem to stop that from happening even if you got ~20% crit rate for 60 seconds. So stop the bickering and taking threads off-topic. There won't be a 3rd warning.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI2Atronach View Post
    making a non sense comment

    First of all: There is absolutely no gain to use IW over Invocation if you use IW actively.

    You seem to forget one VERY important advantage of Invocation vs IW. Invocation has 15% damage boost PREPULL. That means the part of the fight you are doing your highest DPS, will be boosted by 15% instead of 6%. To my knowledge, there are very few fights where you take instant damage the second you pull.

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