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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    "The Horde" as you like to reference it (and as the "official", playable faction) did not exist in WC2. Simple as that.

    Again, you're just spouting off one falsehood after another because you want to keep on with this, "Pandas and Pokemon!" level of MoP-bashing instead of coming up with something real to critique.
    How do you know what "horde" am I referring to?
    I lived off Warcraft 2 for ages. More than the first it's the one that go me hooked up on many things and the reason why I started playing wow later on.
    Why are you saying there was no "horde" in Warcraft 2?
    I mean I'm just curios that's all.
    Last edited by Djalil; 2013-12-13 at 01:40 AM.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    How do you know what "horde" am I referring to?
    I lived off Warcraft 2 for ages. More than the first it's the one that go me hooked up on many things and the reason why I started playing wow later on.
    Why are you saying there was no "horde" in Warcraft 2?
    I mean I'm just curios that's all.
    Nobody ever said there was no Horde in WC2. There most certainly was a Horde in WC2. And there is a Horde in WoW. The thing you're not getting is that they're not the same organization. The WC2 Horde was beaten and completely dismantled. The Horde as it exists today was formed from scratch after that, with a new leadership, a new command structure, new goals and new members. It started being called "the Horde" while the WC2 Horde started being called "the Old Horde" to demonstrate the distinction.

  3. #323
    MoP is good. Compared to the trainwreck that was Cataclysm (that SHOULD have been the good expac tbh), and the single button, unbalanced spam fests of vanilla, it's not bad.

    I think a lot of the complaints just come from the theme, not the actual content or improvements or anything. BC dealt with the burning legion and was very sci fi based, Wrath was all about the scourge and Arthas and was pretty lore heavy, Cata was very unfinished, short, and disjointed, and MoP was pretty much a clean side story expansion about conflicts between the alliance and horde.
    Do not underestimate us.

  4. #324
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulrender View Post
    So you're going to tell me everything up until MoP was filled with as many corny jokes, immature scenery, and poorly written dialogue?
    Well, um, duh?

    WoW has NEVER been a serious game. People are why it became so "serious".

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    To the people who keep spewing the bullshit about Warcraft 3 "not taking itself" seriously:

    Warcraft 3 had HUMOR elements, but they didn't break immersion of the game MOST of the time. Things like the hidden Hydralisk were drastic examples where it did, but it was one small thing in tens of missions.
    The developers have a sense of humor-- which means it's not as serious as you think it is.

    You think stuff like the Hydralisk was one small thing, but if you look at the other tens of missions you can fish out a bunch of weird stuff in them as well, including Wirt's Other Leg, The Butcher, the Uber Fish, the Secret Society of Sasquatch, the Penguin King (who dances for DK Arthas, of all people), a ghoul named Timmy, a critter with 100% evasion, and of course, hidden Pandaren. Those are just some of the better-known ones.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Nobody ever said there was no Horde in WC2. There most certainly was a Horde in WC2. And there is a Horde in WoW. The thing you're not getting is that they're not the same organization. The WC2 Horde was beaten and completely dismantled. The Horde as it exists today was formed from scratch after that, with a new leadership, a new command structure, new goals and new members. It started being called "the Horde" while the WC2 Horde started being called "the Old Horde" to demonstrate the distinction.
    I never said they were the same organisations.
    What I said is:
    This game is based on horde vs alliance from the beginning.
    This was his answer:
    Or Warcraft 2, where "The Horde" didn't even actually exist yet?
    A GIGANTIC strawman. I never said it was the same organisation, never said the horde in wc2 was right or wrong or evil or good, never said anything like that. Didn't need to add that kind of depth to the discussion.

  7. #327
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulrender View Post
    WoW has lost its tone of seriousness and with it, its immersion too.

    ......

    EDIT: I appreciate what they are doing with the lore with the Garrosh build-up, but I really really really am agitated by the delivery of it (if that makes sense)
    Disagreeing with everything really. MoP had more immersion and better storyline than Cataclysm had. In Cata I did not really feel the story unfold, in MoP I did really.
    Seeing events build up from the moment you land in Jade Forest, to Kun-Lai Summit to Dread Wastes. Sha presence and the build up to the Garrosh story. I really enjoyed it and in all fairness it never felt corny, with the exception of the occasional joke, but that's good to change the pace and mix it up a bit.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    none of Warcraft from WC3 and onward existed back in WC2. WC3 is a complete and utter retcon of the original RTS games. Which is why I initially skipped wc3 and didn't give WoW a chance until summer 2006.

    To retcon the evil horde into morally ambiguous victims of circumstance was a necessary evil to pave the way for WoW though. I can admit that now.
    Umm, I hate to point this out, but I dont think you actually understand what the word "ret-con" means. Ret-con refers to Retroactive-Continuity change. IE, a change to what we now know that effectively changes the accepted past of something into something else.

    If our first encounter with Superman tells us he comes from Kripton, which was destroyed, leaving him an orphan, that is what we know. If someone later decides that Superman's home planet was instead called Cybertron, and changes his cannon origin story, that is a change to an existing, established knowledge base. That is a Ret-Con.

    If our first encounter with Superman only tells us that his home planet was destroyed, leaving him an orphan, and much LATER gives his home planet a name, that is not a ret-con, that is simply expanding the knowledgebase.

    That said, The orcs were never "ret-conned" from being an evil horde into victims, because no one at that point knew anything about their backstory. They just poured through a portal from another world and tried to conquer azeroth. Their background was later fleshed out and expanded upon to arrive at the current orcs we know and love today.

    The Dranei / Eredar lore on the other hand was actively retconned.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2013-12-13 at 07:52 AM.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulrender View Post
    So you're going to tell me everything up until MoP was filled with as many corny jokes, immature scenery, and poorly written dialogue?
    If you learn to embrace the corny jokes you will have a good time, one joke in particular comes to mind.
    Dwarf on the can that needs silk cloth to complete the quest.

    The game is full of references to real movies aswell and I don't think it is poorly written if you see it for what it is, a video game.

  10. #330
    Nobody cares about WoW anymore. Blizzard is so ready to be done with it. They come off as it being a burden, and wanting to move onto something newer. Catering to casual players to an extreme, taking a childish approach to a mainly young adult/adult player base, and overall poor quality of gameplay.

    Elder Scrolls Online will wipe the floor with w/e they come up with next and they know it. Blizzard lost it's hold over the MMO community the second it was announced. ESO has the wonder factor, 10 years in the making, and a much more loyal fanbase than Warcraft ever had. Not to mention it's creators have a much more personal attachment to the series and therefore only care about making it better. Blizzard was always looking ahead to their next expansion or next "great" MMO, while ESO has been doing nothing but developing their game.

    I see a lot more longevity in ESO because they've learned from WoWs failures and understand the what the majority of the MMO community really wants. We want adventure, we want wonder, and most of all we want a fun MMO to play. WoW was only fun to me when I first started and it was new. I cannot stand playing WoW, and I will never play it again. Grinds, grinds, and more grinds that eat away at your soul and melanin levels. I never get tired of playing Elder Scrolls games because they have what I consider to be a great game: Active combat, rich environment, and a storyline I could repeat over and over.

    Sorry Blizzard but it's time you learned you were only good because you were the only well funded MMO around.
    "Knock the world right off it's feet, and straight onto it's head."

    http://http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Elargee/simple

  11. #331
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    To the people who keep spewing the bullshit about Warcraft 3 "not taking itself" seriously:
    [video=youtube;6eVne-kYhn4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eVne-kYhn4[video]
    Because one video proves that Warcraft 1 till WotLK were all serious?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Because one video proves that Warcraft 1 till WotLK were all serious?
    What do you mean by "serious"?
    It's a bit vague how can anyone answer that question?

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    I said Pandaria sucked because they managed to take the depth and diversity of ancient Chinese mythology and boil it down to terracotta roofs, and Shaolin monks in panda suits, and oh look, here's an ox, and a dragon. And the characters that were introduced were all martial arts movie clichés. Pandaria ended up being the most intellectually shallow continent in the game.
    So what ? The Dwarfs boiled down scottish history to living near a lake and being drunk all the time and the Tauren show the (american-)indian heritage by living in tents and hunting big animals.
    Everything is the disneyworld-version of real life in WoW and everything is cliché. The Pandaren are in no way special in that regard.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    So what ? The Dwarfs boiled down scottish history to living near a lake and being drunk all the time and the Tauren show the (american-)indian heritage by living in tents and hunting big animals.
    Everything is the disneyworld-version of real life in WoW and everything is cliché. The Pandaren are in no way special in that regard.
    You and I both know there's a lot more to the dwarves, but NEITHER of these races were the focal point of an expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  15. #335
    Stood in the Fire Raego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceJam View Post
    Nobody cares about WoW anymore. Blizzard is so ready to be done with it. They come off as it being a burden, and wanting to move onto something newer. Catering to casual players to an extreme, taking a childish approach to a mainly young adult/adult player base, and overall poor quality of gameplay.

    Elder Scrolls Online will wipe the floor with w/e they come up with next and they know it. Blizzard lost it's hold over the MMO community the second it was announced. ESO has the wonder factor, 10 years in the making, and a much more loyal fanbase than Warcraft ever had. Not to mention it's creators have a much more personal attachment to the series and therefore only care about making it better. Blizzard was always looking ahead to their next expansion or next "great" MMO, while ESO has been doing nothing but developing their game.

    I see a lot more longevity in ESO because they've learned from WoWs failures and understand the what the majority of the MMO community really wants. We want adventure, we want wonder, and most of all we want a fun MMO to play. WoW was only fun to me when I first started and it was new. I cannot stand playing WoW, and I will never play it again. Grinds, grinds, and more grinds that eat away at your soul and melanin levels. I never get tired of playing Elder Scrolls games because they have what I consider to be a great game: Active combat, rich environment, and a storyline I could repeat over and over.

    Sorry Blizzard but it's time you learned you were only good because you were the only well funded MMO around.
    What does your long biased rant have to do with this thread?

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceJam View Post
    Nobody cares about WoW anymore. Blizzard is so ready to be done with it. They come off as it being a burden, and wanting to move onto something newer. Catering to casual players to an extreme, taking a childish approach to a mainly young adult/adult player base, and overall poor quality of gameplay.

    Elder Scrolls Online will wipe the floor with w/e they come up with next and they know it. Blizzard lost it's hold over the MMO community the second it was announced. ESO has the wonder factor, 10 years in the making, and a much more loyal fanbase than Warcraft ever had. Not to mention it's creators have a much more personal attachment to the series and therefore only care about making it better. Blizzard was always looking ahead to their next expansion or next "great" MMO, while ESO has been doing nothing but developing their game.

    I see a lot more longevity in ESO because they've learned from WoWs failures and understand the what the majority of the MMO community really wants. We want adventure, we want wonder, and most of all we want a fun MMO to play. WoW was only fun to me when I first started and it was new. I cannot stand playing WoW, and I will never play it again. Grinds, grinds, and more grinds that eat away at your soul and melanin levels. I never get tired of playing Elder Scrolls games because they have what I consider to be a great game: Active combat, rich environment, and a storyline I could repeat over and over.

    Sorry Blizzard but it's time you learned you were only good because you were the only well funded MMO around.
    Ohh right, the game that has been in development for 10 years, and even looks it (hey ESO, 2003 wants it's character models and shitty animations back), is going to wipe the floor with WoW. Just what every disillusioned WoW fan really wants: another everquest 2 lookalike.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2013-12-13 at 11:51 AM.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You and I both know there's a lot more to the dwarves, but NEITHER of these races were the focal point of an expansion.
    Yes they have a funny accent, too.
    But seriously, yes the dwarfs are more than a bunch of (scottish) clichès but so are the pandaren. Still you see a lot of "LOL KUNGFUPANDA" but no "LOL HIGHLANDERDWARFS".
    And while the dwarfs didn't have a whole expansion centered on them they were very prominent in WotLK (i still hate Bran ) and you really could argue if Pandaren are the focal point of MOP and not the Sha/Garrosh story.

  18. #338
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Yes they have a funny accent, too.
    But seriously, yes the dwarfs are more than a bunch of (scottish) clichès but so are the pandaren. Still you see a lot of "LOL KUNGFUPANDA" but no "LOL HIGHLANDERDWARFS".
    And while the dwarfs didn't have a whole expansion centered on them they were very prominent in WotLK (i still hate Bran ) and you really could argue if Pandaren are the focal point of MOP and not the Sha/Garrosh story.
    The sha are a result of the pandaren on pandaria, the other races seem to be pay no attention to them until we arrived.

    And for the record I hate brann too, he's just the previous lorewalker cho
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulrender View Post
    WoW has lost its tone of seriousness and with it, its immersion too.


    Cataclysm could have been great if DS wasnt a horrible raid and more focus was placed on the end-game rather than the 1-60 content BUT I cannot complain about that because I think what they did with the 1-60 content was fantastic and needed.

    Im really hoping WoD allows for a more serious tone and a stronger theme that will immerse us. They have 10 levels to do it. Hopefully they will, because I just can't take this expansion serious at all.

    After running SoO a billion times and hearing the same poorly written corny lines from Sylvanas to Lor'Themar or the Paragons or pretty much every other boss, I want to rip my eyes and ears out.

    The whole theme behind the pandaren could have been done a lot better. Its killing me. I apologize if my opinion differs from yours to the point where you feel the need to angrily disagree with me and bash me.




    EDIT: I appreciate what they are doing with the lore with the Garrosh build-up, but I really really really am agitated by the delivery of it (if that makes sense)
    You are wrong.

  20. #340
    I'm not sure what game OP has been playing but WoW has always had satirical comedy running through it. The overall storyline of MoP wasn't really a comedy even though there was plenty of comedy in the expansion. Just sounds like someone reaching for something to dislike about the expansion instead of voicing valid concerns.

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