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  1. #1
    The Patient
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    Garrosh 10m logs - help ripping it apart

    Please see our logs last night - I know what to do on garrosh / tactics but I need help seeing who can increase performance individually.

    Try and give player / class specific help using the logs if you can. It's not strategy I need help with, more things like "shamans is not using / spiritwalker grace enough" "Pally tanks is not using shield damage reduction enough" "his gear is reforged wrong".

    Anything at all on the logs - I don't know how to drill it down enough to see who is doing what at certain times or what they used in the fight.

    Anything that will help each player help us get this &^% boss down!!!

    Thanks all

  2. #2
    Posting the logs is a great start. Most of the people here aren't clairvoyant.

  3. #3
    Perhaps it would be helpful to post the logs

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Posting the logs is a great start. Most of the people here aren't clairvoyant.
    haha sorry - rip me apart aswell!

    .worldoflogs.com/reports/fdr6hb68dfwd93y9/dashboard/?s=2866&e=3540

  5. #5
    I'm going to advise 2 healing it.

    It may sound hard, but it's far easier to do that than to deal with the Empowered Whirling Corruption.

    Basically, you're looking at getting him into the final phase with only one set of adds. I think we once managed two sets. Past that, you're probably going to make mistakes, get in bad positions, DPS will die and P3 will be practically impossible.

  6. #6
    Going 2 healers might solve some issues with transmissions.
    You can also use your Druid tank to Tranq during an Empowered Whirling Corruption while the Paladin is tanking the boss.
    If the shadow priest get symbiosis he/she can Tranq too.

    Your paladin tank didn't use Devotion Aura?

    The boomkins DoT uptime seems a bit low, but better than the DoT uptime of the Shadow Priest.
    Last edited by Pragnoran; 2013-12-12 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Your raid dps overall just seems really low for the gear level. Even more so when considering how much AOE meter padding people are getting to do (going by how high Mind Sear is on the shadow priest's damage breakdown).

    I'll focus on your hunter since that's my primary class. Their uptime on Black Arrow is abysmal - 59.6% on the fight you linked. I see that they have flex Assurance of Consequence, which means that their uptime on Black Arrow should be 90% or higher on this fight. In addition, they are not casting Explosive Shot nearly frequently enough. It's on a 6 second cooldown and is a SV hunter's main damage source. On a fight of that length, with the 4-piece bonus (which they have), I'd expect to something like 150 Explosive Shots, and they manage a paltry 92, which is not even casting casting it on cooldown.

    I believe their reforging is off, too, though you'd have to plug them into AskMrRobot to check. Surely it can get them closer to hit/expertise cap than what they've currently got. And why, why are they using STAMINA gems ?

    Giving your spriest a quick lookover as well, and same problem there -- not using main spell (Mind Blast in this case) on cooldown, and why do they even have the Insanity talent selected if they're not going to, you know, use it ?
    Last edited by Musca; 2013-12-12 at 11:34 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musca View Post
    Your raid dps overall just seems really low for the gear level. Even more so when considering how much AOE meter padding people are getting to do (going by how high Mind Sear is on the shadow priest's damage breakdown).

    I'll focus on your hunter since that's my primary class. Their uptime on Black Arrow is abysmal - 59.6% on the fight you linked. I see that they have flex Assurance of Consequence, which means that their uptime on Black Arrow should be 90% or higher on this fight. In addition, they are not casting Explosive Shot nearly frequently enough. It's on a 6 second cooldown and is a SV hunter's main damage source. On a fight of that length, with the 4-piece bonus (which they have), I'd expect to something like Explosive Shots, and they manage a paltry 92, which is not even casting casting it on cooldown.

    I believe their reforging is off, too, though you'd have to plug them into AskMrRobot to check. Surely it can get them closer to hit/expertise cap than what they've currently got. And why, why are they using STAMINA gems ?

    Giving your spriest a quick lookover as well, and same problem there -- not using main spell (Mind Blast in this case) on cooldown, and why do they even have the Insanity talent selected if they're not going to, you know, use it ?
    This is the stuff we need! I have no idea why stamina gems - I will ask - I know he doesnt do pvp so no need at all in my eyes. The hunter does the engineers if this influences the outcome of the abilities you mentioned (Hunter is the only class I dont have so dont know much).

    The SP is the main dps on the weapons but that is single target so not sure why he wouldnt MB on CD still for orbs. I guess they should get even more procs due to multi dotting?

    Re previous comment on two healing - I know we should two heal it but it probably wont happen due to how the raid is setup / attended.

    Thanks very much for the specific details

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Musca View Post
    Your raid dps overall just seems really low for the gear level. Even more so when considering how much AOE meter padding people are getting to do (going by how high Mind Sear is on the shadow priest's damage breakdown).

    I'll focus on your hunter since that's my primary class. Their uptime on Black Arrow is abysmal - 59.6% on the fight you linked. I see that they have flex Assurance of Consequence, which means that their uptime on Black Arrow should be 90% or higher on this fight. In addition, they are not casting Explosive Shot nearly frequently enough. It's on a 6 second cooldown and is a SV hunter's main damage source. On a fight of that length, with the 4-piece bonus (which they have), I'd expect to something like Explosive Shots, and they manage a paltry 92, which is not even casting casting it on cooldown.

    I believe their reforging is off, too, though you'd have to plug them into AskMrRobot to check. Surely it can get them closer to hit/expertise cap than what they've currently got. And why, why are they using STAMINA gems ?

    Giving your spriest a quick lookover as well, and same problem there -- not using main spell (Mind Blast in this case) on cooldown, and why do they even have the Insanity talent selected if they're not going to, you know, use it ?
    While your dps is certainly low the criticism towards the hunter is not really valid. On this fight black arrow uptime is going to be a lot lower than normal. On a boss like iron juggernaut you should always maintain about a 90% uptime on black arrow, 100% uptime on SS and varying between 42-46% uptime on ES since the proc is quite random. This fight is completely different though. During the add phases you are dpsing the adds most of the time and weaving in an ES on garrosh every now and then if focus allows. Also in the intermission phases black arrowing adds is just a dps loss so he doesnt have to do that.
    Point is that even though the hunter was doing ok in that regard (of course you can always improve, and the more ES'es the better), your raids dps is quite low. We are easily 2 healing this fight while pulling more dps in shittier gear so it should be doable by you as well. Might even be the case that you are just wiping because of faulty tactics or position. If you could elaborate on how you position and how you execute the fight maybe we can give you some more advice.

  10. #10
    Being on the engineers shouldn't change anything. Explosive Shot is equally amazing there as for anything else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by blubneus View Post
    While your dps is certainly low the criticism towards the hunter is not really valid. On this fight black arrow uptime is going to be a lot lower than normal. On a boss like iron juggernaut you should always maintain about a 90% uptime on black arrow, 100% uptime on SS and varying between 42-46% uptime on ES since the proc is quite random. This fight is completely different though. During the add phases you are dpsing the adds most of the time and weaving in an ES on garrosh every now and then if focus allows. Also in the intermission phases black arrowing adds is just a dps loss so he doesnt have to do that.
    Point is that even though the hunter was doing ok in that regard (of course you can always improve, and the more ES'es the better), your raids dps is quite low. We are easily 2 healing this fight while pulling more dps in shittier gear so it should be doable by you as well. Might even be the case that you are just wiping because of faulty tactics or position. If you could elaborate on how you position and how you execute the fight maybe we can give you some more advice.
    Sorry, but I kill Garrosh on my hunter every week. Last week's kill was 92.1% uptime on Black Arrow.

    While it's true that some high ranking SV logs have lower uptime on Black Arrow, especially in phase 1 (though never as low as 59%), that's because they're AOEing to try and rank. DPS on Garrosh & Farseers (if one is up) is priority in that phase for a group that's trying to progress -- you should let the Iron Star kill the other adds. Their strat, I see from the damage taken logs, allows for at least one Iron Star to explode, and they have access to multiple knockbacks so I don't see why they would be prioritizing AOE over boss damage. Further, even if for some reason he was consciously choosing not to use Black Arrow in the first phase, check his debuff uptimes and click on the little '#' sign -- you'll see that his Black Arrow usage is as sporadic in the later phases as in the first phases.

    Also, a side note in case the hunter is going to come here to read the advice, it's also not true that Explosive Shot should be prioritized over Black Arrow during AOE phases -- the latter has higher DPET and can proc free Explosive Shots, pretty much the only reason not to cast it is if the target is going to die too quickly. And Serpent Sting uptime is most likely going to be lower than Black Arrow uptime if you have the 4-piece, Assurance of Consequence, and are playing correctly.
    Last edited by Musca; 2013-12-12 at 11:50 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blubneus View Post
    While your dps is certainly low the criticism towards the hunter is not really valid. On this fight black arrow uptime is going to be a lot lower than normal. On a boss like iron juggernaut you should always maintain about a 90% uptime on black arrow, 100% uptime on SS and varying between 42-46% uptime on ES since the proc is quite random. This fight is completely different though. During the add phases you are dpsing the adds most of the time and weaving in an ES on garrosh every now and then if focus allows. Also in the intermission phases black arrowing adds is just a dps loss so he doesnt have to do that.
    Point is that even though the hunter was doing ok in that regard (of course you can always improve, and the more ES'es the better), your raids dps is quite low. We are easily 2 healing this fight while pulling more dps in shittier gear so it should be doable by you as well. Might even be the case that you are just wiping because of faulty tactics or position. If you could elaborate on how you position and how you execute the fight maybe we can give you some more advice.
    Phase1 - kill one engi - knock adds back.

    Range in 2 groups on 2 marks - after desecrate the group that gets hit goes to the other range group - then moves back after weapon is gone. This is virtually the same as just all moving in one group but I think its slightly better as you always have one healer not moving so can keep someone in trouble up etc.

    Transition as normal

    Phase 2. Range start at the back where you drop into the room - tanks / melee around the mid. Moving left after each desecrate, dot weapons but dont full nuke them. Range are therefore stacked for MC and then whirling - melee sometimes come in the stack if they dont have the cds avail to stand close to boss during whirling.

    On empowered whirling - this is the main event. We keep the same tactic for everything else but loose spread to get the adds. It's these adds that are the problem mainly and we just need more practice on them. We sometimes kill them all - sometimes they will agro the tanks due to them using a self heal etc. We normally have some adds left while the MC hits - we should hopefully now be ignoring the adds while MC is going on and try and finish them off after. Between the adds and MC and spreading / running from desecrate I am guessing our boss dps is very low for most of the time.

    Practice practice i think but also wanted help with character specific stuff.

    I am the resto shaman - I know i can use healing cds more but tbh I dont think I need them most of the fight so normally save them in reserve for mess ups and I only use them on empowered whirlings if the priests are not tranq ing.

  12. #12
    I'll just focus on your disc priest since that's the only one I know, scuse any erros in the post, I am up later than I should be. Also I'm just looking at your 10:57 attempt for this.

    1) I'm rather confused by his choice to go full haste. While it's not a terrible stat for disc priests, going for full crit with some mastery is just significantly better. Stat priority should be crit > mastery > haste > spirit.

    2) Way too much prayer of healing spam which is a huge mana sink. Honestly the only point in the fight I could see PoHing back to back is during whirling corruptions and I honestly think putting shields+PoMs+spirit shells would be more effective. He's a disc priest, the holy priest is the one who's supposed to be doing direct healing, the disc priest is the one who puts up bubbles and absorbs!

    3) His Atonement healing is pathetic. Penance is being used far too often as a direct heal rather than a DPS spell, which should never happen unless someone in the raid needs an emergency heal and with two other healers the disc shouldn't be there to pick up the slack like that. Holy fire usage is low which mean he's not casting it on CD. REALLY low smite damage.

    This is pretty much the number one problem with bad disc priests whenever I comb through logs, they think they're holy priests and put their DPS as really low priority. Atonement is a major part of being a disc priest and being able to weave it in between spells is how you effectively play the class.

    4) He has a 21.9% uptime of Archangel, should be closer to 45-50%, again a result of poor Atonement weaving.

    5) 13 casts of Power Word: Shield is... really bad.

    6) On his talents and glyphs: Highly recommend dropping cascade for Divine Star for this fight with how the raid's generally stacked up and it's great for Divine Aegis procs. Drop Power Word: Shield Glyph and get anything else (binding heal). Get the minor Glyph of Sha. Get mastery enchant for gloves, get pandaren step for boots.
    Last edited by Naela; 2013-12-12 at 12:47 PM.

  13. #13
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    To echo what some of the posters above me have said, go two heals.

    We were really struggling with the adds and killing the things in time on the transition phases until we did this: the extra dps can make one hell of a difference.

    One other thing of note is that your holy priest seems to be favouring mastery which is not ideal in 10mans, he may want to try reforging all that mastery into crit once he's at his haste cap for renew and sanctuary ticks (see below). They should be spamming renew on that fight and renew doesn't benefit from mastery so all those stats are going to waste. The stats and reforging guide on icy veins for holy priests is pretty good and you might want to direct them there.

    The mastery enchant on the bracers could also do with being replaced with the int one.

    Their haste is also very, very low and in a couple of cases they've reforged out of haste and into mastery. The haste cap they should be aiming for is 7082 if your raid hasn't got the spell haste buff or 4721 if you do (from spriests or boomkins). This will give an extra tick of renew and THREE extra ticks of sanctuary. They have the 4-piece tier bonus which HUGELY increases the amount of healing done by sanctuary when the stacks of the proc are maxxed at 3, so this really needs to be looked at. They might want to consider putting int + haste gems into the yellow slots to help get closer to the haste caps and get rid of the mastery gems.

    Edit: I realise that this isn't so quickly fixed, but they also need to make getting rid of those rings an absolute priority.
    Last edited by allatar; 2013-12-12 at 01:44 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Naela View Post
    4) He has a 21.9% uptime of Archangel, should be closer to 45-50%, again a result of poor Atonement weaving.
    I say 30-40% archangel uptime is optimal on this fight. Since anymore and it means you are using it on CD and not when there is any healing to be done. During a lot of this fight there is close to no healing to do. Only p1, during annihilate and whirling is there really any healing to do, and that is where you want max archangel uptime.

  15. #15
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    Anything on the pally tank - takes a lot more damage than the druid (although the druid has a lot better gear - is that it?)

    Shaman healer?

    Rogue / druid tank / shaman dps?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by BombayRoll View Post
    Anything on the pally tank - takes a lot more damage than the druid (although the druid has a lot better gear - is that it?)

    Shaman healer?

    Rogue / druid tank / shaman dps?
    Ignore the tanks DPS. one tank will always outdps the other tank - especially on Garrosh fight where in P1 the tank on Garrosh will have hella high vengeance. Damage taken should never be looked as well, if the druid is tanking the adds and the paladins consecration/aoe spells combined with his vengeance means he peels a few adds onto himself, he's obviously going of taken a tonne more damage.
    I don't know paladins/druids very well so probably best to post the logs in there respective class forums and get somebodys opinion on there active/re-ative mitigation uptimes.

  17. #17
    Your prot palas rotation is completely borked. Proper one is in the prot pala section but basically hes not using his HoPo generators correctly. He uses judgement far more than CS which is wrong. He could have used CD almost 3x more.
    Hes using SS instead of EF for healing which is meh, despite this he cast 21 word of glory on himself in 11 minutes. He should NEVER cast WoG unless hes going to die. He should use it on shield of the righteous, if hes going to die 21 times in a fight then your healers need a look at.
    Hes also using execution sentence, worst prot pally talent ever. Use holy prism.
    Hes using glyph of avenging wrath which heals him for 10% of his health over its duration. Never has a worse glyph been invented. (It healed him for 0.5% of the damage he took on your longest attempt)
    Aura mastery wasn't used (it will reduce the damage from an ironstar impact or an empowered WC by 25%)

    The shadow priest is cheesing his nuts off on the damage by mindsearing the adds. Adds need to get hit by the ironstar and then a mild slapping will kill them (hello knockbacks). His uptime on his DoT's is terrible at 67% and 59%. Mind blast is the shadow priest absolute highest prio spell with an 8 second CD and he used it less than 1/3 of the times he could have. Mind blast gives orbs, orbs give devouring plague and that gives him mind flay insanity which is mucho damage. Hes also doing sweet FA on the utility side. Not a single PW:S on himself, no vampiric embrace which is an amazing raid CD and he could even PoM a bit in the intermissions if he wanted to be helpful.

    Apart from this, have a plan for the empowered whirling corruptions. People die because they get hit by empowered adds. Separate them and deal with them thru stuns / void tendrils / taunts whatever. Nothing will save you if those adds start getting into the 3/6mill HP range. One of your priests got a single melee hit for 639 k. Work out roughly where people should stand and just have em move out of the purple swirly shit - that's where an add spawns. Once it spawns its theirs to deal with (within reason) Even healers have taunts and stuns.

    Finally, work shit like tank / boomie tranqs into a rotation for empowered whirling corruptions. One of these can almost carry the whole raid.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/fdr6h...3540&target=12 This is the damage actually done to garrosh. 2 dps are actually below the tanks because AoE is cool and makes you look awesome. Hit the damn boss :P

  18. #18
    Would appreicate a critique of the rogue if anyone has the time/inclination.

    It's actually my character and I've been struggling on it i feel - can't put my finger on it.

    Tried going back to combat (may again) but just cant get a handle on it, maybe too long a break.

  19. #19
    just 2 heal it , its gonna make the fight 3x easier

  20. #20
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    2 heal it. All damage is very predictable so it's easy to time cooldowns and heals.

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