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  1. #1
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Do we have the DPS for Sha HC 10-man & other tips?

    Last night we had another few goes on Sha. I believe it went better the on previous reset, more co-ordination and communication. However on most goes where we got close to 4 min in fight and boss closing to 50% (bit more ofc) people were at 30-40+ Pride.

    We usually wipe cause people get to high stacks of Pride and get destroyed by the [Bursting Pride] or people being bit to late to kill the banishment add (notice that it is up). Possible the bolt damage from rifts might be too big as well once in a while, but we are working in getting that solved.
    Based on the logs from last nights - do we have the DPS/HPS to kill it? And how can we improve outside of the obvious mistakes?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...ses&boss=71734

    (logs from very first attempts (we have improved a bit since then) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...ses&boss=71734)
    Our DPS and Healer combination might vary from day to day (mw+rdruid, mw+shaman, shaman+rdruid, 2xrdruid) and the amount of melee as well. Also our ele. shaman is considering going mastery heavy.

    Any pointers to people how they could do better would be great as well.
    I know that I take too much Pride/damage from the Rift bolts just cause it is bit hard to check the timers, check where Rifts are, call stuff out, make sure you are in range of stuff and the same time to move from hitting bolts (I cannot multitask that well 90% of the time).

    I know that we can improve with more practice on this boss.

    Here is how we handle the fight:
    People are loosely stacked near the Manifestation side.
    Tanks/healers doing the Prisons.
    People with Titan are the ones soaking after Manifestation dies.
    Adds are MD to me (bear tank). We disputed last night about the picking up the add and having the DPS to deal with those, but finally settled on having our hunter(s) MD all small adds which spawn to me and I aggro as much as I can, but won't go chasing after any loose adds and have DPS deal with the ones which are left.
    Everyone is helping out on the Rifts, made sure that people with Titan are the ones who soak first. We have markers set out in corners to make it easier to call out Rift locations. And also avoid going out of healer range when people are low on HP.
    People generally know how to "play the pacman" and only seem to die if they fuck up by accident or the Fragment is not dieing fast enough.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-12-13 at 08:42 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  2. #2
    Warchief Radio's Avatar
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    To answer the core question of the thread: Sha is a mechanics fight with surprisingly low tuning, if you can kill Norushen HC then you have the DPS for Sha.

    You seem to have the right idea, but you're going to have to be able to do the fight with people going above 25, 50 and sometimes even 75 pride. Get used to Bursting and Projections at the very least.

  3. #3
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    How long is the enrage or does it have the soft enrage of the amount of Pride? And as for Norushen... We kill it on the verge of enrage, so that's why I was asking.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  4. #4
    That does seem rather low, if you were low 560ish(which you probably are at this point) people should be doing at least 240-250k, since our dps at 570 were doing 300-320k or so while 3 healing, which artificially shits up your actual dps due to lower CD/hero uptime.



    So why exactly are people doing 180k on heroic but 270k on normal? you move like once every 90 seconds to seal a sha pool and once every 15-20 seconds to avoid fireballs which isn't even a DPS loss for people outside Spriests or something.
    Last edited by Fluttershy; 2013-12-13 at 07:06 AM.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Mehman's Avatar
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    I think the enrage is in the ~10 minute area. That said, I haven't experienced the enrage myself, we tend to kill it before that.

    People WILL get to 25+, and some unlucky people will get to 50+ Pride before the 30% mark, where in case you forgot/didn't know, Pride is reset, and then again after (We've had some healers at ~80 pride when the boss dies). Better get used to that.

    That said, if you can kill Norushen, Sha shouldn't be an issue for you numbers wise.


  6. #6
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    So why exactly are people doing 180k on heroic but 270k on normal? you move like once every 90 seconds to seal a sha pool and once every 15-20 seconds to avoid fireballs which isn't even a DPS loss for people outside Spriests or something.
    What do you mean? Our noru/sha yesterday was all heroic. Last Sha kill of previous reset was only normal Sha we did (all bosses and tries before that were HC).
    Besides all the DPSers were over 200k last night... You mean the effective DPS? Really, is that what one should look at?

    - - - Updated - - -

    List of our people from last night:
    Bear
    Protpala
    mw
    rshaman
    hunter1
    hunter2
    mage
    ele shaman
    warri
    wlock

    Low DPS might be cause of learning teh fight?
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-12-13 at 07:40 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  7. #7
    If you are struggeling with meeting the enrage timer on Sha, stacking for a short period of time during Gift is a great way to squeeze some more DPS out.

  8. #8
    Just looking at their charts, I'd answer no.

    Your best try was Try 7
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...=10075&e=10365
    Your dps is 1,391,209 for your best attempt.

    Click on "10 Heroic" and you will see the averages for success.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/zones/Sie.../Sha_of_Pride/

    Eyeballing the chart...

    Very very few groups are killing the boss with your amount of dps.
    You can see the success rate start to climb once you pass 1,600,000.

    The success rate spike around 1,800,000 (and the median success dps is 1,952,516).
    If you have that much dps and are wiping, it's a mechanical failure.

    If you have less dps than that, then your mechanical execution has to be superb to compensate for your lower dps.

    You can also see healing in successful groups.
    I'm not sure if the chart is showing raw or healing (including overheals) or effective healing (not including overheals).
    Your hps(e): 197,483
    your hps: 440,167

    hps(?) in successful groups: 225,000+
    hps(?) median in successful groups: 275,670

    as far as an enrage, you can guess that from the chart by looking at when the success rate starts to decline.
    looks like around 450 seconds, or 7.5 minutes.

    caveat: I have done zero heroics.

  9. #9
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    To everyone about killing Norushen - we are killing it on verge of enrage, so cutting very close to wiping. So hence I am not sure about the DPS (the norushen logs are pointless to check out cause I go in twice to drop my corruption and am logging at the same time).

    As for DPS I guess the finisher at 20% and BL when Pride gets reset will ad bit more, however I doubt it'll be 3+ mil DPS in total. Any pointers for the DPS/tanks/healers on how we all can squeeze out more?

    "Lot of Pride" is kinda okei to have then, as long as you execute the Pride mechanics nicely. Will let people know that they really need to pay attention to that as well when the fight progresses.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  10. #10
    Your tactics sound right.

    The Pacman game is absolut easy if your dd's switching fast enough to the Corrupted Fragment. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...ses&boss=71734 seams like not everybody is 100% aware of this priority target. Maybe some are still focusing on the small adds?

    For the rifts you won't get Pride by closing them. You get pride by getting hit of their bolts. So closing them should be priority for people who doesn't have the Titans Buff. We gave the area near our position to the healers. The entrance to melees off tanks and very mobile dd's.

    Your priority should be that Titan buffed players can use the buff as effective as possible, dealing damage dispelling and soaking the big add but not running around.

    They shouldn't run around while they have a debuff, titan buff will be aplied, someone will go to prision, adds will spawn or someone will be ported to play pacman. So there are small timeframes but still enough time to do it.

    While our progression we died almost every time on the fifth swelling pride. As soon as we made it without the fifth swelling pride to 30% we killed him.

    I really would recommend to kill galakras and nazgrim before sha. Some more loot from these will make Sha much easier.

  11. #11
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Maybe some are still focusing on the small adds?
    Or people are doing rifts, but focusing on the adds could be the case as well.

    For the rifts you won't get Pride by closing them.
    Your priority should be that Titan buffed players can use the buff as effective as possible, dealing damage dispelling and soaking the big add but not running around.
    You sure? Some say that you do, some say that you don't get Pride from closing Rift. I am bit confused -_- And if the rift doesn't give Pride (of which I am very sure it does...) then the Pride people shouldn't go after rifts?
    I really would recommend to kill galakras and nazgrim before sha. Some more loot from these will make Sha much easier.
    That would be an option, but I doubt that those will be easier if people have trouble paying attention to priority targets and other various things. And most possible we can do Shamans before Nazgrim, cause we have a 3rd tank (warri in tank spec).
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  12. #12
    Just looking at your longest fights, your DPS are getting Power of the Titans less than 50% of the time (10/22 possible on wipe 1, 10/20 possible on wipe 7). That's a pretty big deal for a group that's low on DPS as it increases haste, damage and healing by 15% for 15s. Set a stack point for people with Gift (ours in on melee so they don't have to run out of melee range) so they can get the buff before running off to close rifts or soak the Manifestation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    I'd like WoW to be a single player game

  13. #13
    That would be an option, but I doubt that those will be easier if people have trouble paying attention to priority targets and other various things. And most possible we can do Shamans before Nazgrim, cause we have a 3rd tank (warri in tank spec).
    As a 4/14 guild (we couldn't manage to get Galakras down due to roster issues), it seems like Galakras is easier than Sha actually. And I see that you have an ele cham, a lock and a mage wich seems like a very nice comp to do it.

  14. #14
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Set a stack point for people with Gift (ours in on melee so they don't have to run out of melee range) so they can get the buff before running off to close rifts or soak the Manifestation.
    That is a very nice idea. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandwhale View Post
    As a 4/14 guild (we couldn't manage to get Galakras down due to roster issues), it seems like Galakras is easier than Sha actually. And I see that you have an ele cham, a lock and a mage wich seems like a very nice comp to do it.
    Well ele. shaman is not available on the days when we possible would get to Galakras . We do have a second wlock as well, but he is on vacation for 3 weeks .
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  15. #15
    Blademaster
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    Quoted from the dungeon journal:

    The Sha's energy tears open Rifts of Corruption every 8 sec. Each rift launches a bolt of corruption at a random player's location every 5 sec. Players struck by the bolts suffer 350000 Shadow damage and gain 5 Pride.Players can close the rifts, causing them to explode, inflicting 250000 Shadow damage to all players within 8 yards.Closing a rift afflicts players with Weakened Resolve, preventing them from closing another rift for 1 min.
    As for tactics, since you have a prot pala it might be an idea if the pala specced into http://www.wowhead.com/item=41099 so he can put the consecration at the stacked group.
    This means the hunter can stick on the boss for a bit of extra DPS.
    Make sure that no DPS is DPSing the reflections(or atleast at progression) and let the tanks handle it.

    As for closing rifts, it is possible by classes with a high speed buff (rogues/roll on monk etc) to soak 2-3 rifts close to eachother if timed/placed correctly without triggering the debuff of the first rift.

    With practice I'm sure you'll see your DPS pull bigger numbers once they get used to the fight.

    Good luck.

    ~Diss

  16. #16
    Or people are doing rifts, but focusing on the adds could be the case as well.
    They can't do rifts while adds are spawning and someone is going to pacman. If they are to far away and will get chosen they are dead. Thats an absolute avoidable death. Everyone needs to keep an eye on his timers.

    You can just get one rift every minute so they will have to find a timing where nothing else happens and there are plenty of timeframes for this.

    You sure? Some say that you do, some say that you don't get Pride from closing Rift. I am bit confused -_- And if the rift doesn't give Pride (of which I am very sure it does...) then the Pride people shouldn't go after rifts?
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=147198
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=147207

    I'm pretty sure yes. Even if they would give you 5 pride that's not worth the damage you will lose while running around with titans buff.


    That would be an option, but I doubt that those will be easier if people have trouble paying attention to priority targets and other various things. And most possible we can do Shamans before Nazgrim, cause we have a 3rd tank (warri in tank spec).
    Galakras and nazgrim are so unbeliveable easy compared to sha. Shamans are not that hard but can still be very frustrating and needs some time. But thats your decision. :-)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Or people are doing rifts, but focusing on the adds could be the case as well.



    You sure? Some say that you do, some say that you don't get Pride from closing Rift. I am bit confused -_- And if the rift doesn't give Pride (of which I am very sure it does...) then the Pride people shouldn't go after rifts?

    That would be an option, but I doubt that those will be easier if people have trouble paying attention to priority targets and other various things. And most possible we can do Shamans before Nazgrim, cause we have a 3rd tank (warri in tank spec).
    I am 100% positive you do not get pride from closing rifts. The beam it shoots out deals a fair amount of damage and gives pride, so anyone without the 1 minute debuff time on rift closing should keep their eyes open for a rift.

    Some tips for extra DPS is to briefly stack during gift of the titans (if you're not already doing that). The fight has a lot of AoE elements (rifts mainly) and prisons therefore stacking for longer periods of time is not an option. When we first killed it, we used this strategy:

    1.Start up as spread out. Keep closing rifts as soon as they appear, call out on voice coms if there are some rifts not being soaked, this gives no pride so everyone should help out. Obviously, ranged should take care of the back of the room and melees should soak in the area near them to prevent DPS loss.

    2. When small adds spawn, you should recieve Gift of the Titans shortly after. Try to get a tight stack so that the people with Gift of the Titans recieve the buff Power of the Titans which increased damage, haste, healing etc. Loosen the stack a little bit so rifts don't overwhelm the raid. You do not lose the Power of the Titans buff if you spread out, but if you stay stacked it will constantly refresh at 15 seconds. Shadow realm will come shortly after small adds, but since you are already stacked, getting people out of pacman should be a piece of cake if they are familiar with the encounter and can eat pellets.

    3. Prisons will come shortly after shadow realm (pacman), and you should be prepared. Remember to constantly keep soaking rift as they appear, use an addon like WeakAuras to track the timer on the debuff if you have a hard time noticing if it has wore off. I posted the WeakAuras string below.

    Code:
    dCdncaGljOTjjntevMliMTkUPGWTvvTtuP9sTBK2Vc9tvkggk(nPgQGudwknCboOGOldDmq6CsGfkO0sLelgLSCP6XQYtjwMe65KCyGPcQjl00f9zu1vfK8meLRJk2OQsNwPnJW2Li)vs9vvfttbFxq1iru1jvuJwLmEvkDjbf3cL6AiY5LIVPs14KOETISHAylRLzAIDcWdHm)0ufeaR9SztDUjGoHya2RdUaQLYBrzPyHmfsMLFlrlrdB52Biiuy6VShkOiPYmKrIPijgOLlx2eShUBP5gccfM(l7QKggkwajYivLHP6adJjypu1s2xEESBylrKfhcc4Ma0c5dzLq8nuKZYJJk1)1xBeTK7pgTqb)OYWMlulFqWesX4yBfuPpLqNoTCHl)vAU3zSC0GOHT01h0Ww(5CY1WoD60sCvbhqJKG3KYsyEw6i)QPWnbOL9PPwEA9jQdN6WAbWj1MLLnArUaJTAIX2q33io2YES9dcMqkghBRGk9PeAbeJBUAk4uN9LNh7kd70s4BmVm37mwOC(H7lpp2vMlulXvfCanZpn1YmnXob4HqMFAQccG1E2SPo3eqNqma71VdcOk0PfGHT8bbtifJJTvqL(ucTmttStaEiK5NMQGayTNnBQZnb0jedWEDWfqTuENwkzUqhGY40g

    4. Unfortunately I do not know the exact moments the raid recieves Gift of the Titans, but during that time you should try to get those players to stack briefly just to get the buff. 15% damage, haste and healing for 15 seconds is very strong.

    5. After prisons there is swelling pride.

    Rinse and repeat. Stacking for Power of the Titans is crucial if you are below on DPS. Again, just to emphasize, you do not have to keep stacked to benefit from the damage buff, the 15 seconds will continue to run down to 0 as soon as you spread out, but by all means, if there is no danger (which there rarely is, as this fight is pretty smooth when it comes to phases) you could stay stacked longer for the buff to last longer.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Or people are doing rifts, but focusing on the adds could be the case as well.



    You sure? Some say that you do, some say that you don't get Pride from closing Rift. I am bit confused -_- And if the rift doesn't give Pride (of which I am very sure it does...) then the Pride people shouldn't go after rifts?
    You get pride from being hit by the bolts that the rifts send out, but not by closing the rifts.

  19. #19
    Youre not wiping due to MCs (100 pride + burst) --> dps/enrage isnt a problem (YET!) ^^.

    Sha doesnt have high dps requirements, at all, and I doubt youll find it a problem. You need to execute the mechanics properly: close rifts, stand on your explosions and defensive cds need to be used smartly. Havent checked more in-depth, but alot of your deaths (atleast on your longest attempt) are people being killed off by the debuff. Be smart about this and dont range the healers when you have the dot, and healers need to be good at dispelling. The reason there's such a big difference between DPS and DPS(e) is because of the numerous early deaths, and it's hard to compare your DPS vs any successful kill when youre still learning the fight / dying as often as you are

    People *need* to have the damage/healing/pride-immunity buff. Failing to stack with it is a massive no no.

    Do those things right and youll be fine all the way to enrage/pseudo enrage. And once youve reached that you can tell if you have enough dps.

  20. #20
    no one shud ever get hit by bursting pride ever, this is like lfr level mechanic

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