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  1. #21
    A few tips:
    - You can't "not notice" banishment because people should say on comms "hey I'm banished", theres really no excuse not to have a working mic for hc progress.
    - Only tanks hit adds unless for some reason you start to get overwhelmed call for AoE
    - Projections and bursting pride will happen on your early kills, accept it and manage it, as long as people aren't overcome its no biggie.
    - Dps should close the prison, melee and one ranged. Trust me, get sub 30% and the shit hits the fan and you'll want the healers healing.
    - Designate a stack spot for gift and stuck collapse and then spread to get the buff.
    - Above all else, close rifts (unless you have the debuff then avoid it at all costs)
    - Pop a raid CD for every swelling pride
    - Tell your healers to dispel people even if they don't have the gift (if needed) - your longest pull had lots of people die to the debuff. Esp before prisons / swelling pride etc. Eat the pride gain (use judegement)

    Your pala needs a slap btw: hes using SS which is shit. On top of that his use of it is nothing short of shocking. 1.7m healed from it on all attempts - it should be close to the healing from seal of insight which is 21m. He should talent Eternal flame and actually use it. He also NEVER used divine protection in all of the attempts. That's especially sinful since he has the prot 2 set which has amazing synergy with divine protection. Add to that his rotation is still borked. Anytime you see more judgements than crusader strikes its an alarm bell.
    These are easy fixes with some decent auras to track stuff. Hes really straining your healers on a fight like Sha. Tanks should pretty much take care of themselves to a large extent and hes leeching a lot of the healers attention and effort.

    Edit: Longest attempt your mage had 42% uptime on invokers energy (15% less damage when it falls off) and 55% uptime on living bomb. This is raiding 101, not even heroics. Your people really need a talking to :s
    Last edited by Deja Thoris; 2013-12-13 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Also our ele. shaman is considering going mastery heavy.
    tell him to learn to play his class before making everyone waste their time carrying him. a ele shaman not going mastery is even worse than a fire mage not going crit

  3. #23
    The Patient Rangz's Avatar
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    Having people with the buff take rifts is just dumb, everyone needs to be on rift duty at all times! See one - go get it.

  4. #24
    High Overlord toomes211's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangvald View Post
    Having people with the buff take rifts is just dumb, everyone needs to be on rift duty at all times! See one - go get it.
    It made a huge difference when people actually soaked the rifts as much as possible as opposed to not, for our attempts. This is easily overlooked, and is most certainly one of the most important parts of the fight on heroic.

  5. #25
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Having people with the buff take rifts is just dumb, everyone needs to be on rift duty at all times! See one - go get it.
    Everyone was on the duty - tanks, healers, DPS. But people w/ the buff was kind of the ones who was "closing first", but now that the Rift stuff is cleared up, we can kind of drop that kind of priority and focus on stacking better with Gift.

    - You can't "not notice" banishment because people should say on comms "hey I'm banished", theres really no excuse not to have a working mic for hc progress.
    The issue is targeting the add fast enough.

    Only tanks hit adds unless for some reason you start to get overwhelmed call for AoE
    As I said in my first post, we worked it out so that I get MD the adds, all the loose ones which are someplace else away from me DPS deals with them.

    Dps should close the prison, melee and one ranged. Trust me, get sub 30% and the shit hits the fan and you'll want the healers healing.
    This is something we need to think about. But with out DPS won't it be a DPS loss or will the proper stacking for titans make the difference?

    Designate a stack spot for gift and stuck collapse and then spread to get the buff.
    Grasped that from someone else post

    Tell your healers to dispel people even if they don't have the gift (if needed) - your longest pull had lots of people die to the debuff.
    Usually on the fights were there is loads to dispel and we have our resto shaman along the dispels are really lacking from him, at least from previous exp.

    Healing, CDs and dispelling will be easier once we have both or at least one of our resto druids along, that class is just so OP.

    Any comments on me (bear tank)?

    Thank you to the rest of you for the comments on people skill usage. Some more insight would be great.

    I guess now that the Pride thing from Rifts are sorted we can work on the proper priority for people who soak.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  6. #26
    Mechagnome khatsoo's Avatar
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    We set marks on healers and people with gift seek the gifted one.
    Mostly dps do prisons.
    We don't really 'prevent' pride from the add, just delete it and get ready for the Swelling Pride.
    DPSs don't care about small adds once someone is banished, tank without the boss comes, aggroes and takes adds away.
    High pride is normal, Bursting pride is as easy as moving out of it, shouldn't be a problem. Call for people with 50+ for projections (same mechanic as Malkorok circles but personal), if one goes off it's a wipe.

    Edit: Oh, and beware people with debuff to go far away to close rifts, I usually call them to be quite close once the prison is coming and stay there until Swelling Pride has been mitigated, then all people without the rift debuff goes to close one as there is a moment of calm before next set of adds.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post


    The issue is targeting the add fast enough.


    As I said in my first post, we worked it out so that I get MD the adds, all the loose ones which are someplace else away from me DPS deals with them.


    This is something we need to think about. But with out DPS won't it be a DPS loss or will the proper stacking for titans make the difference?


    Grasped that from someone else post


    Usually on the fights were there is loads to dispel and we have our resto shaman along the dispels are really lacking from him, at least from previous exp.

    Healing, CDs and dispelling will be easier once we have both or at least one of our resto druids along, that class is just so OP.

    Any comments on me (bear tank)?

    Thank you to the rest of you for the comments on people skill usage. Some more insight would be great.

    I guess now that the Pride thing from Rifts are sorted we can work on the proper priority for people who soak.
    For the banishment, you should establish before the fight where EVERYONE is positioned by default, there are no excuses there. I am always near the bottom left (facing the entrance door) our druid healer is always next to me on the left, and our boomkin and shadow priest to the right of me. The fact that I know that off by heart should indicate just how ingrained this is. If someone says 'X Name banished'. I know immediately where to run and start smacking the shit out of a thing.

    The gifts are an interesting mechanic that you can ignore when you have this on farm, but for this purposes, you only need to be within 15 yards of each other for it to trigger, so what we used to do is the 3 who have it, move closer into the boss and continue dps/healing with it on in front of all the others. In plain sight so incase one IS the banish target we can see who it is immediately. It WILL help you down this boss.

    Dispelling is something you need to stay on top of especially before the bursting. Paladins can use hand of sacrifice in emergencies, if there is a slip up the person with it on needs to be made aware they're in the danger zone and should use their biggest cooldown immediately. Mistakes can happen. Expect them.


    As for adds, they should all go to the tank. If they're going elsewhere someone in your raid is being a dick and padding their dps with aoe. Smack them hard.
    There is no need to Misdirect. I've done this with and without hunters. (When you spawn adds ALL raiders gather in the middle of the boss, drop their pool and then run out, the tank can then take all of them in one small aoe move)

    Apart from that the fight is circular, you do the 3-4 steps with the banish over and over. Try to maximize the use of the gift if dps is where you lack.
    Do not take unnecessary damage from ANYWHERE and the pride should never get too dangerous for anyone but the healers and tanks. Which they should be able to handle the mechanics without killing the raid.

    For closing rifts, we send people out to close them once we've dealt with the bursting with speed buffs. (Yell at your druid to roar people) Make sure if you're debuffed with nasty shit to have a cooldown ready and/or heal.

    And that's all the advice I can give...
    Last edited by Aqua; 2013-12-13 at 02:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  8. #28
    High Overlord Mazor's Avatar
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    A few things I noticed:

    1) The fight is VERY predictable. It's always the same order of mechanics, and as such there are no surprises.

    Gift->Reflection->Gift->Banishment->Gift->Imprison->Gift->Manifestation->Swelling Pride.
    (At least until 30%, after that point the gifts are over and he resets his "rotation" to the Reflection part)

    This is important to know because it means that after you get the Reflection people should stop going out of their way to soak the further ones as they need to collapse back so they're easier targets to kill if they are banished (and to be in range of others if they are not).
    As well as people being ready for Imprison (make sure your Mage blinks to the outer side and that your Warlock keeps his circle there as well, while others get the inner side. Tanks handle the other one on their own, but MUST be prepared for it).

    This also means you know exactly when Swelling Pride comes (and it does hit hard), so you can plan a CD rotation for it.
    For the first one you should be able to stack as everyone should still be below 25 pride, so you can use Spirit Link Totem.
    For the second you can use Rallying Cry, or Devotion Aura, and for the third use the one you didn't on the second.
    You won't be able to stack for the fourth as pride should be high, so people need to use personals. By the time you have the fifth you should be able to get the CD you used on the second up again.



    2) There seems to be a big difference in the amount of dispels your healers have. I haven't checked the uptime on Gift of the Titans and it may be the case that one healer was favored. At any rate, correct dispelling is crucial in this fight. If you don't dispel enough the damage will overwhelm you. If you dispel without Gift of the Titans too often the pride will overwhelm you.

    One major caveat about dispelling without the Gift is when you are about to transition (the 30% point) you should already be dispelling without the Gift, as your Pride will reset (you have to be wise about it, when to start, not overlapping it with a Swelling Pride, etc). As the 2nd phase of the fight is much harder on the healers so you want to have as few debuffs as possible going into it.




    3) Rifts - seems like you can be more aggressive about closing them. We use everyone (that doesn't have the Gift buff) to soak, but we designate the ones just between the boss and the Manifestation spawn point for healers, so they don't have to run too much.
    Hunters are great for taking those really far ones, just be wise about going there.



    4) Small adds - if you struggle on DPS on the Sha itself, I don't see a reason for you to waste DPS by AoEing the small adds. Even if it's only a MD for the tank. While the fight IS an execution fight, any DPS gained on the Sha make it much easier (as you have to execute it for a shorter amount of time AND you'll get fewer of the nastier Swelling Pride outcomes). Some people have ~25% of their damage on the Reflections which just seems wasteful.

    We handle it by letting our Paladin tank use Light's Hammer on the "stack zone" behind the boss when the adds pop up, this should get all the adds to the tanks (people REALLY should ignore them), and tanks shouldn't have any issue killing the adds by themselves.
    There is simply no reason to divert DPS from the boss to the adds.

    This doubles up as a clear for the stack zone because shortly after the Reflection a Banishment will come, if there are no adds there it's really easy to see who is banished.



    5) Rotation - since people aren't alive the entire fight it's harder gauging rotational mistakes, but still, I am fairly certain uptime on DoTs can be better, talent choices can be improved (go for single target talents as opposed to AoE ones ) etc. People should make certain their rotation is correct, that they are always casting, etc.
    It just seems your DPS is on the low side for 560+ geared raid, especially as some of you AoE on top of that.



    Hope this helps,
    Mazor.

  9. #29
    Closing rifts does give you 5 pride. It has been mentioned numerous times on this forum and I don't understand why people are still confused about it. Yes, we all know that getting hit by the bolts from the rifts gives 5 pride. The only evidence that people claiming that you do not gain pride, have provided is linking tooltips from the dungeon journal, which is often erroneous and definitely not conclusive. Look at 8:00 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSSojlvf_wQ Now, tell me what happens when he closes the rift. His pride is at 30, and after closing it, viola, 35.

    With that said, people should be closing rifts as soon as the debuff wears off irrespective of how much pride they have, unless of course Fragment is about to come out. Even if it will put them over 50 pride (projections) for the next Swelling Pride, it is more important that the rift is soaked. Besides giving people pride, the bolts cause a lot of movement and can result in a substantial DPS loss.
    Last edited by Nebs; 2013-12-14 at 01:46 AM.

  10. #30
    We have set rotation for rifts which consists of 2 groups - ranged/healers and melee/tanks. After first rotation is over everyone closes rifts on CD.

    Only tanks should dps adds - they don't hit that hard on tanks.

    Your ele shaman needs to visit forums - we don't gem 160 int in red sockets for a long time.

  11. #31
    High Overlord Dastuross's Avatar
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    I know this isn't exactly the question, but your paladin needs to change his gemming/reforging, he's reforging mastery into crit BELOW the haste cap, no reason to do that. There's also no point to go for socket bonus's, gemming straight haste until 50% will do him much more good.

    Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...turos/advanced Tell him to take a look at it (Note: i'm gemming into mastery because i'm at 50% haste, untill he gets to that, it should be straight haste.)

    One last point, there's no point for him going into stam, i'm 1 ilvl ahead of him, and of the 7 heroics i've done so far, i've never even thought of going stam, and from everyone i've talked to, there's no point in stam for anything other than MAYBE H Paragons.

  12. #32
    Brewmaster mitbrandir's Avatar
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    Something i've noticed is that some of your raiders don't actually prepot, and no one prepotted every single pull.

    I've also been looking at your warlocks log. It seems that he isn't using Havoc to his advantage. He should havoc the boss and either chaos bolt the big add when it appears, or he has to try to shadowburn them if that opportunity occurs. Something he could also try is Havoc the boss and snipe the little adds if possible. Another thing is that he only seems to have used Sacrificial Pact twice during the 7 pulls. He should use this way more often because it would allow him to mitigate quite alot of damage. I'm unable to tell whether he had this talent active all the time, but I do suspect so, because I can't find Dark Bargain or Soul Link back anywhere ( He's using Grimoire of Sacrifice so that might explain why I can't see his Soul Link back anywhere. He should use Twilight Ward on CD aswell, because alot of the damage going around in this fight is shadow. Another thing is that his Chaos Bolt averages 1m, but I think he can get that up abit more if he lines up procs/cds/gift of the titans with his chaos bolts. The last thing I've noticed is that he has a 50% uptime on Immolate, which is really low, aswell as bad since Immolate does quite alot of damage.

    So atleast your warlock has some things to work on.
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  13. #33
    I stick to the previous posters Opinions on how to handle most fight mechanics,
    I have however one dps-wise advice for you still.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...=88&boss=71734
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/uzkpc...e=517&target=7
    Here is a log of our first kill (this week, yay!) vs your log. Granted there is the execute Phase included but you can clearly see the
    Damage done to Sha alone should be remarkebly higher. Have the tanks pick up all the reflections and Cleave them down while DPS focuses on the Boss.
    (Granted your Warlock will want to keep Rain of Fire up and Havoc some Shadowburns for MOAR deeps)

    (on a random side note, I did 15% of my damage with Shadowburn, your Lock does less than 2% on some fights..)
    (edit edit: And tell him/her to spec Soul Link if hes only ever using Sac Pac once in the whole fight ..)
    Last edited by Peacelan; 2013-12-14 at 05:55 PM.
    :O it'ze me

  14. #34
    If you are lacking dps then you can have a tank take all adds and whore vengance. Thats what we did on our first kills, dps should only focus banishment, big add and boss. We dont do that anymore though it is a nice way to squish some numbers out.

  15. #35
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help. Sha is dead. Hopefully next week we can kill it again (given that we get the same people). Stacking of gifted people, healers not doing prisons and more-more communication and CDs for the Prides really helped
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by potatoe View Post
    ...
    Click on "10 Heroic" and you will see the averages for success.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/zones/Sie.../Sha_of_Pride/
    ...
    Very very few groups are killing the boss with your amount of dps.
    You can see the success rate start to climb once you pass 1,600,000.

    The success rate spike around 1,800,000 (and the median success dps is 1,952,516).
    If you have that much dps and are wiping, it's a mechanical failure.
    So the short answer appears to have been...no?

    You did not have enough dps.

    before
    DPS 1,391,209
    HPS(e): 197,483
    HPS 440,167
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...=10075&e=10365

    median success numbers
    DPS 1,952,516
    HPS(e) 275,670

    after
    DPS 2,002,513
    HPS(e) 298,019
    HPS 698,401
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=9537&e=9957

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by potatoe View Post
    So the short answer appears to have been...no?

    You did not have enough dps.

    before
    DPS 1,391,209
    HPS(e): 197,483
    HPS 440,167
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...=10075&e=10365

    median success numbers
    DPS 1,952,516
    HPS(e) 275,670

    after
    DPS 2,002,513
    HPS(e) 298,019
    HPS 698,401
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=9537&e=9957
    To be argumentative, there was no proof they didn't have enough dps. More dps makes it easier but there was nothing to suggest they couldn't do it with what they had. Anyway, gz on the kill!

  18. #38
    basic tacts 2 heal it,

    Dispel on cd, doesn't matter if your on 90 pride at the end before 30% it's easy to do the mechanics properly, healing needed is around 100k per healer and if dps are 200-250k steady it should be more than fine on dps.

    Close rifts asap as soon as you can get another do it, this stops you from having to move all the time, you dont even need the titans buff tbh but if you can grab it can help abit buts its best to focus on closing rifts and the other mechanics, this is just a control fight so if you handle the mechanics good its an easy kill.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Thanks for the help. Sha is dead. Hopefully next week we can kill it again (given that we get the same people). Stacking of gifted people, healers not doing prisons and more-more communication and CDs for the Prides really helped
    this is basic fucking raiding stuff. Why are you guys even in heriocs?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tinslot/simple Oceanic spriest.
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  20. #40
    We usually wipe cause people get to high stacks of Pride
    If this is the cause of your wipes, make sure you don't stand on top of the bouncing bolts the rifts shoot. You will be suprised how many people still get this part wrong even after 30-40 wipes.

    Also make sure that you shut down rifts AFTER the Swelling pride UNLESS the rift is right next to you. That moment is ideal because your raid has nothing to deal with at that point.

    After our first kill, the sole way to die is someone going to shut down a rift at a wrong time, and get targetted by pacman, and that leaves the whole raid wondering where the f*ck the add is!

    Also these tips I found from another post before mine:

    - Pop a raid CD for every swelling pride
    - Tell your healers to dispel people even if they don't have the gift (if needed) - your longest pull had lots of people die to the debuff. Esp before prisons / swelling pride etc. Eat the pride gain (use judegement)
    Last edited by Kreeshak; 2013-12-25 at 06:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

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