Thread: trinket chose

  1. #1

    trinket chose

    are their any one who use black blood over totem as destruction? on the same item lvls. feels overall better with black blood giving so many stats and a good procc. still guides say toxic.

  2. #2
    there is no reason to use Normal BBOY over Heroic Totem. If you have H BBOY and H(WF) Bindings, why not? 30k int is not a joke. Also KTT is good for big incinerate crits. I'd say they are pretty equal on the same Ilvl, BBOY is slightly better if you can utilize it right, but H KTT is so much easier to get though. Naturally KTT is better for progression.
    Last edited by Dnusha; 2013-12-09 at 02:47 PM.

  3. #3
    http://sparkuggz.com/5-4-trinket-lis...y-destruction/

    according to the sim black blood is slightly better, but that is assuming that u are able to utilize the trinket proc fully like what dnusha said, personally i would go with the totem since it is easier to use.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dnusha View Post
    there is no reason to use Normal BBOY over Heroic Totem. If you have H BBOY and H(WF) Bindings, why not? 30k int is not a joke. Also KTT is good for big incinerate crits. I'd say they are pretty equal on the same Ilvl, BBOY is slightly better if you can utilize it right, but H KTT is so much easier to get though. Naturally KTT is better for progression.
    He said they were the same i-lvls, not BBOY normal and KTT heroic. But the rest of your statement is dead on.

    But yeah, according to Sparks guide, there is less than 400 dps between the 2 trinkets when they are both normal. So if you can get used to BBOY because it is the one slightly ahead, then sure, go for it. But honestly with that small a difference, its up to you what you want to do and what feels better for you.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    are their any one who use black blood over totem as destruction? on the same item lvls. feels overall better with black blood giving so many stats and a good procc. still guides say toxic.
    Assuming the same ilvl for KTT and BBoY, KTT is realistically ahead on almost every fight. However, as fights become better ingrained and less movement is required, I'd imagine BBoY will sneak by.

    2-3 stack BBoY = .5 x KTT
    5 stack BBoY = 1 x KTT
    7-8 stack BBoY = 1.5ish x KTT
    10 stack BBoY = 2 x KTT

    If we disregard our usage of CB during DS and Expanded Mind for a moment, we can say the following:


    If ONLY BBoY is procced and you are able to cast 3 CB's, then you are casting 4.5 "KTT proccs CB's". That is, when 3 CB's are cast PERFECTLY under BBOY, it is the same damage as when 4.5 CB's are cast under KTT.

    Using the same logic for when you only have 2 embers saved, and again assuming BBoY is used PERFECTLY. 2 CB's under ONLY BBoY is the same as 3.5 CB's under KTT.

    Now if we go up to situations where you might have 4 embers saved (which is improbable given the constraint of a 10 second proc), we see that 4 CB's cast PERFECTLY under BBoY is the same as 5 CB's under KTT.


    Using this (hopefully flawless) logic, it is obvious that the most beneficial situations to use BBoY over KTT is when you are able to cast 2 and 3 CB's, as opposed to 4. Since most of the time we cast 2-3 CB's under a non-DS proc, this works out pretty well. Additionally, BBoY becomes even better when/if it procs during execute range, or on fights where there is a high uptime execute phase. 3 SB's used at 8,9,10 stacks of BBoY is infinitely better than 3 SB's used under KTT.

    However, the downside is hopefully apparent. More often than not in modern raid encounters it is EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to cast 2-3 perfect CB's under BBoY. Changes in haste, required movement on the fight, getting hit by a mothertrucking saw blade, standing in bad, etc etc... Additionally, fights where burns are required on specific adds (Nazgrim, Malkorok, others that I can't think of) it is often impractical to try and wait for a higher stack of BBoY in order to cast CB on the burn target. In this case (assuming either trinket procs at the correct moment), it is significantly better to equip KTT. In the same vein as single target fights with a burn target as described previously, AOE fights like Spoils and Galakras are unfavorable to BBoY as well. Shadowburn is a huge component of your dmg and ember consumption on those fights, and it just isn't possible to predict if a 5-10 stack BBoY will occur at the perfect moment a mob hits sub 20%, whereas if KTT is up, it's up.

    One of the only plus sides favoring BBoY that I can think of off the top of my head are fights where you have BOTH little movement, and you take AD as a talent. This way you are more likely to take advantage of the BBoY stacks without being interrupted, and you can time your DS charges with BBoY instead of PBoI. Then use PBoI procs like you would KTT or BBoY without AD.



    This is all disregarding the passives on each trinket, but playing a Warlock has never really been about passives/statics.
    Last edited by Mazda; 2013-12-11 at 12:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    Using this (hopefully flawless) logic, ...
    Yep, yep, looks good..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    ... infinitely better than 3 SB's used under KTT.
    Uh.. not quite :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    However, the downside is hopefully apparent. More often than not in modern raid encounters it is EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to cast 2-3 perfect CB's under BBoY.
    Which is the reason I don't use it. KTT is on average better in an actual fight. The stacking proc trinkets were decent enough when they lasted 20 seconds with 2 sec intervals, but only having 1 second per stack is way, way harder to execute when you have to move, get hit by unavoidable knockbacks (trucking sawblades), etc.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post

    Uh.. not quite :P
    HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME!

    What do you mean? Using the same logic, 3 SB's at 8,9,10 BBoY stacks = 5.2 KTT SB's. That's closing in on double the return for your investment.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME!

    What do you mean? Using the same logic, 3 SB's at 8,9,10 BBoY stacks = 5.2 KTT SB's. That's closing in on double the return for your investment.
    I didn't mean you were wrong in your intention, just that it's not quite infinitely better. (An finite number can't by definition be infinite) I was mostly just poking fun at you being worried about correct logic and in the same sentence saying something illogical. :P

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I didn't mean you were wrong in your intention, just that it's not quite infinitely better. (An finite number can't by definition be infinite) I was mostly just poking fun at you being worried about correct logic and in the same sentence saying something illogical. :P
    The engineer in me says "Well played"

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    The engineer in me says "Well played"

    The gamer in me says "STFU"
    :D

    D:


    :)

    (This may be my most useless post yet.)

  11. #11
    To anyone who has lost millions in CB damage due to the slightest of latency disruptions, bosses knowing to fling poo at you at the exact moment BB gets its nuts chugging, etc you will want to go back to KTT asap. Then again if you spend most of your time as affliction when a SB:SS is pretty guaranteed then BB isn't so bad if you OS dest. Mainspec dest I prefer KTT quite a bit. Especially since raw secondary stats are less of a thing to destro compared to aff who basically can't get enough haste or mastery.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    To anyone who has lost millions in CB damage due to the slightest of latency disruptions, bosses knowing to fling poo at you at the exact moment BB gets its nuts chugging, etc you will want to go back to KTT asap. Then again if you spend most of your time as affliction when a SB:SS is pretty guaranteed then BB isn't so bad if you OS dest. Mainspec dest I prefer KTT quite a bit. Especially since raw secondary stats are less of a thing to destro compared to aff who basically can't get enough haste or mastery.
    Yeah, KTT all day long.
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  13. #13
    in a singeltarget fight, does destro go over affliction by alot?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    in a singeltarget fight, does destro go over affliction by alot?
    Depends on fight length. Affliction does better with shorter fights as the opener is much stronger. Destro has a higher average, but it takes time to compensate for the weaker start.

  15. #15
    okey, thx brus =)

  16. #16
    Also note that racials factor into this heavily too....compare the simc dps curve (aka opener) of aff as troll vs any other race really...

  17. #17
    It really comes down to what one you can get a higher item level of. If you happen to have both trinkets at the same ilvl I would use toxic totem for reason people have said above. It's great when you can get good chaos bolts off with black blood but sometimes you have to move or it procs at not great times so it's a lot easier to just know you can use your chaos bolts with the proc and not try and over think it as the proc is happening. For me at least
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  18. #18
    Lol no one is talking about about how much more potential Kardris's passive effect has than how much haste on BBOY? Especially sac spec'd?

    Personally I don't like the feeling for destruction "Yey BBOY proc'd to 6 time to pump out an uber chaos bo.... wait have to move."

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