1. #1

    Archimonde's Trinket (ele)

    Is this gonna be a must have? I mean, sure the increased duration is nice, but is it worth it?
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  2. #2
    Mechagnome Zeruge's Avatar
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    Flame Shock normally: ~16,000 damage
    Flame Shock with Elemental Fusion and Unleash Flame: ~40,320 damage
    Flame Shock with Core of the Primal Elements (normal), Elemental Fusion and Unleash Flame: ~252,000 damage

    That 252k damage is definitely worth having for single and multi target encounters

  3. #3
    I hope this trinket changes the damage charts so dramatically that you can justify bringing an Elemental. Finished out last split run today, and every other caster spec outperformed Ele so hard on Archimonde.
    Another thing that gets me is the general chat when inside the Garrison. It totally reminds me of every prison film I've ever watched. The prisoners confined to their cells are talking to each other through the walls. Their chat is mostly pointless, vulgar and revolving around stuff they ll do once they get out. This is EXACTLY the content of every Garrison chat I've ever had to tolerate.
    LOL!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    I hope this trinket changes the damage charts so dramatically that you can justify bringing an Elemental. Finished out last split run today, and every other caster spec outperformed Ele so hard on Archimonde.
    The only time on archimonde I was remotely competitive was when in several instances the doom fire and doom lord add were close enough I could cheese an empowered chain lightning and EQ. Even then the dmg boost is dependent on your raid having low dmg on adds.

    I know people are showing the damage increase of flame shock as a big deal especially in conjunction with UF and EB but the fights we excel in are ones that don't require UF and EB. I think the significance of archi trinket is meant for increased uptime on our 4 piece with more frequent use of ES and not FS. However, that doesn't help us on Assault, Iskar, Xhul'Horac, or Mannoroth. Of the remaining fights it does not greatly benefit us on focused add targeting fights like Gorefiend or killrog..
    maybe socrethar. Yes on Gorefiend it saves us 1 gcd during feasts.


    That leaves the trinket excelling on Council, tyrant, and basically being okay on archimonde to keep fs up while you target adds. I would think in almost every situation we will use other trinkets better suited for the fight.

    Juxtapose that with enhancement where it is a buff on every single fight. Ele got such an uninteresting trinket.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemat View Post
    Juxtapose that with enhancement where it is a buff on every single fight. Ele got such an uninteresting trinket.
    I don't necessarily hate the trinket, but I do agree that it isn't particularly interesting mechanically.

    One thing I wish they had done is have the trinket also unlink our shock cooldown between flame shock and earth shock. That would help the trinket become much more useful on multi-target, and would build even more synergy between it and the tier bonuses. It would serve as a very nice playstyle perk.

  6. #6
    The problem is that the only thing that make ele "good" is F*CKING EARTHQUAKE. Really that make me sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddy090909 View Post
    I don't necessarily hate the trinket, but I do agree that it isn't particularly interesting mechanically.

    One thing I wish they had done is have the trinket also unlink our shock cooldown between flame shock and earth shock. That would help the trinket become much more useful on multi-target, and would build even more synergy between it and the tier bonuses. It would serve as a very nice playstyle perk.
    This should not be done with the class trinket, it should be baseline. Otherwise the same problem will happen next tier.
    How many dev does it take to fix shamans? None, they are working as intended.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deilyora View Post
    The problem is that the only thing that make ele "good" is F*CKING EARTHQUAKE. Really that make me sad.
    I spend half the raid raging to myself about mobs not being close enough for chain lightning to jump.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    I hope this trinket changes the damage charts so dramatically that you can justify bringing an Elemental. Finished out last split run today, and every other caster spec outperformed Ele so hard on Archimonde.
    Granted Archimonde phase 1 and 2 is pretty bad for Ele, Phase 3 (Dogs) and Phase 4 (Infernals) isn't entirely terrible and I found myself creeping back up the meters, to a certain extent. Gratuitous use of EQ in dog phase and the limited movement in the infernal phase helped me remain competitive during that fight.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I spend half the raid raging to myself about mobs not being close enough for chain lightning to jump.
    It's pretty horrible, there's no reason chain lightning doesn't bounce from edges of hitboxes ("are those mobs really not close enough?") when all of these other AoE spells have massive radiuses when you're targetting bosses (compare it to fire nova).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeruge View Post
    Flame Shock normally: ~16,000 damage
    Flame Shock with Elemental Fusion and Unleash Flame: ~40,320 damage
    Flame Shock with Core of the Primal Elements (normal), Elemental Fusion and Unleash Flame: ~252,000 damage

    That 252k damage is definitely worth having for single and multi target encounters
    You're forgetting the 436 int + proc you lose for a heroic trinket, which is a lot of damage. You also are going to only be refreshing flame shock a few times a fight single target. The length of it saves you a few globals a minute.

    It seems unimpressive to me but I'd have to look at the numbers more in depth.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by marty096 View Post
    You're forgetting the 436 int + proc you lose for a heroic trinket, which is a lot of damage. You also are going to only be refreshing flame shock a few times a fight single target. The length of it saves you a few globals a minute.

    It seems unimpressive to me but I'd have to look at the numbers more in depth.
    Numbers are already there, even if not in the depth some people would like them to be. There's no secret someone is not telling you, Core is the ultimate best trinket for every encounter, followed by PoF.

    Lets blame this item raping and stretching of content, along with non existent class changes, for this clusterfuck they lately call content patches.
    Another thing that gets me is the general chat when inside the Garrison. It totally reminds me of every prison film I've ever watched. The prisoners confined to their cells are talking to each other through the walls. Their chat is mostly pointless, vulgar and revolving around stuff they ll do once they get out. This is EXACTLY the content of every Garrison chat I've ever had to tolerate.
    LOL!

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Zeruge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marty096 View Post
    You're forgetting the 436 int + proc you lose for a heroic trinket, which is a lot of damage. You also are going to only be refreshing flame shock a few times a fight single target. The length of it saves you a few globals a minute.

    It seems unimpressive to me but I'd have to look at the numbers more in depth.
    If you compare it to Gaze of Sethe with enough haste to have a PPM rate of 6 per second, the proc would do 1,447 DPS on average to a single target. With Core, your Flame Shock would do an additional 2,822 DPS. As much as I agree that the 436 int is super hot, I don't think that along makes up the loss of 1.4k DPS.

    Edit: I forgot to factor in the talent switch. I have to say I don't know how much DPS you'd lose by not taking taking Primal Elementalist. If you took Storm Elemental would you lose, say, 100,000 damage from each of them every 5 minutes? If so, that would be a 667 DPS loss in order to take Elemental Fusion. So that's still like, 750 - 800 DPS more. I don't think the int makes that up either.
    Last edited by Zeruge; 2015-07-01 at 12:49 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Numbers are already there, even if not in the depth some people would like them to be. There's no secret someone is not telling you, Core is the ultimate best trinket for every encounter, followed by PoF.

    Lets blame this item raping and stretching of content, along with non existent class changes, for this clusterfuck they lately call content patches.
    The numbers aren't impressive though. Some classes the class trink sends them into the stratosphere. Not elemental though.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    The numbers aren't impressive though. Some classes the class trink sends them into the stratosphere. Not elemental though.
    Yeah, colour me surprised. Still, I'd not give that trinket to a DPS warrior who only uses it on ST fights, wheras I, as Elemental, would use it on every fight.

    Its a fucking joke in itself that I do orange ranks with 53-55k DPS on each boss (in the #1-5 range) and still being behind by 10-15k DPS. Class balance is the core problem here.
    Another thing that gets me is the general chat when inside the Garrison. It totally reminds me of every prison film I've ever watched. The prisoners confined to their cells are talking to each other through the walls. Their chat is mostly pointless, vulgar and revolving around stuff they ll do once they get out. This is EXACTLY the content of every Garrison chat I've ever had to tolerate.
    LOL!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeruge View Post
    Flame Shock normally: ~16,000 damage
    Flame Shock with Elemental Fusion and Unleash Flame: ~40,320 damage
    Flame Shock with Core of the Primal Elements (normal), Elemental Fusion and Unleash Flame: ~252,000 damage

    That 252k damage is definitely worth having for single and multi target encounters
    I think you're wrong. It deals 150% more damage over 150% more time. It doesn't deal 150% more tick damage over 150% more time. It deals 150% more TOTAL damage over 150% more time, which is divided away against itself. 40k damage over 30 seconds VS 100k damage over 75 seconds = the same DPS. 150% damage increase, 150% duration increase, same base dps.

    On top of that, this is a rather silly comparison. Flame shock is a DoT of which you can only have 1 active on the target at a time. A dot doing 250k damage in 40 seconds is not necessarily superior to an ability doing 150k damage in 1 second. You're comparing 30 seconds of one dot to 75 seconds of another. That's not a very meaningful comparison.


    Dots can be refreshed within 30% of the DoT's duration.
    The new dot will do 150% more damage and last 150% longer.
    Old duration: 30 seconds. New duration: 75 seconds. 70% of duration: 21 and ~53 seconds respectively.

    The dot itself does the same DPS (duration and damage both increased). You can (and should) re-apply at 70% of the duration, adding the new flame shock to the remaining ticks of the current one. The 'damage overlap window' for flame shock is now 22 seconds instead of 9, but with a longer non-overlap window as well (53 seconds vs 21 seconds). In the long run, again, no dps increase there.

    Base damage should be increased: that's a tiny damage increase. Unless you cast it less often, which will be the case. Again: no damage increase.

    The buff is that it will only use one global cooldown per ~53-55 seconds instead of one per ~21-23, multiplied by the number of adds you want to keep it rolling on. So you have more gcd's to spend on other damaging spells.

    That's really all of its usefulness that I can see. I don't expect the increased initial damage to be such that it would become more efficient to want to clip the dot (much) befóre 70% of its duration.
    Last edited by karmlol; 2015-07-02 at 09:50 AM.

  16. #16
    the tick dmg is increased ...

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Zeruge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmlol View Post
    I think you're wrong.
    I'm not wrong, I've tested it on the PTR The maths on the damage is:

    FS damage * (1 + 1.5) * (1 + 1.5)

    Add in Unleash Flame and Elemental Fusion to make it:

    FS damage * (1 + 1.5) * (1 + 1.5) * 1.8 * 1.4

    Therefore, if Flame Shock deals 16,000 damage over 30 seconds normally, it will deal 100,000 (or 252,000 with UF + EF) damage over 75 seconds with the above conditions. It double dips from the way it works, which is intentional, otherwise it would be total shit, as you said
    Last edited by Zeruge; 2015-07-02 at 11:27 AM.

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