[WW] 2pc vs 4pc

[silywily]

Is it worth having a 4pc set of Heroic gear, or is it better off to have just a 2set. Obviously if rolling with a 2pc set, I would hope to gain WF off pieces, but I guess im trying to figure out if the 4pc bonus set is worth keeping.

also forgot to mention Im a Windwalker

[Nakanai]

Is it worth having a 4pc set of Heroic gear, or is it better off to have just a 2set. Obviously if rolling with a 2pc set, I would hope to gain WF off pieces, but I guess im trying to figure out if the 4pc bonus set is worth keeping.

It would really help if you indicated which spec you were talking about, especially if you did it in the post title.

[silywily]

It would really help if you indicated which spec you were talking about, especially if you did it in the post title.

hahhaa i didn't see that, but a Windwalker Monk

[Tehterokkar]

Go with 2pc on the 2 heroic slots you can(Chest, Gloves are the first ones you can acquire). Just go with 2pc + highest ilvl for the rest, meaning that even if you get 4pc because of bad drop rates it's okay, but if you get WF drops, go with those..

[jazzyy]

We value 2pc + 3 HWF >>> 4pc + 1 HWF.

You should aim to get the helm off of Immerseus, the chest off norushen, the grips off either Norushen or Galakras with Norushen probably being better unless you're over the hit cap (which you might be since you're probably using garbage like softfoot's last resort and the boots off him as well)

Obviously branching off that we want our 2pc to be the shoulders and the pants..... even though they're the hardest crap to get in the entire instance... that's what we want.

[silywily]

We value 2pc + 3 HWF >>> 4pc + 1 HWF.

You should aim to get the helm off of Immerseus, the chest off norushen, the grips off either Norushen or Galakras with Norushen probably being better unless you're over the hit cap (which you might be since you're probably using garbage like softfoot's last resort and the boots off him as well)

Obviously branching off that we want our 2pc to be the shoulders and the pants..... even though they're the hardest crap to get in the entire instance... that's what we want.

why the shoulders and pants as my tier? I've also heard doing gloves and pants for the tier?

[Tehterokkar]

why the shoulders and pants as my tier? I've also heard doing gloves and pants for the tier?

Shoulders are Haste/Exp and Pants are Crit/Haste.

Mastery is the worst stat and since Tier gloves have Crit/Mastery, you won't want them if you want to min-max.

Reminder of stat prio as per most top monks: Hit 7.5 = Exp 7.5 > Haste(to 11-12k) > Crit > Mastery

[psiko74]

What 2pc of Tier should I use if I can get Helm, Shoulders, Gloves, and Chest? Should I get Heroic Off Set Legs off Dark Shamans or continue to use non heroic tier legs?

[Totaltotemic]

This set of tier gear is very annoying if you're trying to min/max gear. Three of the 5 pieces are Crit/mastery, making them the default worst 3. Unfortunately the two that don't are shoulders and pants, which drop off the 12th and 13th bosses respectively, and shoulders are a lower budget slot than helm/chest/legs. So picking up the 2p is more of a combination of what you have available to you and how little mastery you have to force yourself to deal with.

Helm - Immerseus helm is perfect and early, way earlier than heroic tier helm. You can pretty safely say that helm is NOT a piece you want to use for tier.

Chest - Norushen chest has haste instead of mastery from the tier chest (which drops off Sha and is also very early), but it has yellow and blue sockets which aren't ideal. It's not a bad choice for a tier piece but I got lucky and got a heroic warforged chest off Norushen so I run with that.

Gloves - Low budget slot, as such what exactly you use isn't a big deal. Norushen gloves have hit and a blue socket (ew, 700+ forced hit) While Galakras gloves have mastery and a yellow socket on them (again, non-red sockets aren't very good). Meanwhile tier gloves have double red sockets and mastery, making them technically slightly worse than the Norushen ones if you could actually handle that much hit. The alternatives not being good and being a low budget slot makes tier gloves the MOST IDEAL mastery tier piece to have to wear if you really need to (you'll find most heroic WWs wearing them).

Shoulders - Low budget again, tier is better itemized than the two alternatives (which both have non-red sockets and mastery), but there's that annoying issue that the third to last boss in the entire expansion drops them. Normal tier shoulders isn't a bad idea for 2p because the alternatives suck even if they are heroic, but still not necessarily ideal because...

Legs - Tier pants are perfectly itemized except for yellow sockets, but no hit/expertise/mastery to deal with here. What's more is that the alternative is awful, double blue sockets and mastery. I'd go with the shitty Dark Shaman pants if you manage to get a warforged one, but if not heroic gloves + normal legs would be the best setup.

So possible setups are, from best to worst:

Heroic legs + heroic gloves
Heroic legs + heroic shoulders
Heroic shoulders + heroic gloves
Normal legs + heroic gloves
Normal shoulders + heroic gloves
Anything involving chest/helm.

This is all assuming you have access to the best off pieces. There's no reason to be missing normal shoulders or legs if you really need them because normal Siege + Paragons + Garrosh should basically be disenchant and random off specs by this point. Of course don't switch out if you don't have a suitable off piece, i.e. if you don't actually have a heroic chest off piece you wouldn't drop your tier chest.


*Above copied from http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post24098429 because I didn't really feel like typing all that out again.

[psiko74]

I thought the best setup was Heroic Shoulders and Heroic Legs and everything else was HWF offset.

[jazzyy]

This set of tier gear is very annoying if you're trying to min/max gear. Three of the 5 pieces are Crit/mastery, making them the default worst 3. Unfortunately the two that don't are shoulders and pants, which drop off the 12th and 13th bosses respectively, and shoulders are a lower budget slot than helm/chest/legs. So picking up the 2p is more of a combination of what you have available to you and how little mastery you have to force yourself to deal with.

Helm - Immerseus helm is perfect and early, way earlier than heroic tier helm. You can pretty safely say that helm is NOT a piece you want to use for tier.

Chest - Norushen chest has haste instead of mastery from the tier chest (which drops off Sha and is also very early), but it has yellow and blue sockets which aren't ideal. It's not a bad choice for a tier piece but I got lucky and got a heroic warforged chest off Norushen so I run with that.

Gloves - Low budget slot, as such what exactly you use isn't a big deal. Norushen gloves have hit and a blue socket (ew, 700+ forced hit) While Galakras gloves have mastery and a yellow socket on them (again, non-red sockets aren't very good). Meanwhile tier gloves have double red sockets and mastery, making them technically slightly worse than the Norushen ones if you could actually handle that much hit. The alternatives not being good and being a low budget slot makes tier gloves the MOST IDEAL mastery tier piece to have to wear if you really need to (you'll find most heroic WWs wearing them).

Shoulders - Low budget again, tier is better itemized than the two alternatives (which both have non-red sockets and mastery), but there's that annoying issue that the third to last boss in the entire expansion drops them. Normal tier shoulders isn't a bad idea for 2p because the alternatives suck even if they are heroic, but still not necessarily ideal because...

Legs - Tier pants are perfectly itemized except for yellow sockets, but no hit/expertise/mastery to deal with here. What's more is that the alternative is awful, double blue sockets and mastery. I'd go with the shitty Dark Shaman pants if you manage to get a warforged one, but if not heroic gloves + normal legs would be the best setup.

So possible setups are, from best to worst:

Heroic legs + heroic gloves
Heroic legs + heroic shoulders
Heroic shoulders + heroic gloves
Normal legs + heroic gloves
Normal shoulders + heroic gloves
Anything involving chest/helm.

This is all assuming you have access to the best off pieces. There's no reason to be missing normal shoulders or legs if you really need them because normal Siege + Paragons + Garrosh should basically be disenchant and random off specs by this point. Of course don't switch out if you don't have a suitable off piece, i.e. if you don't actually have a heroic chest off piece you wouldn't drop your tier chest.


*Above copied from http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post24098429 because I didn't really feel like typing all that out again.

So H Tier Gloves are worse than Norushen's H WF or just H gloves? Should I be using Heroic 4pc if I don't have H WF offpieces? I have H WF Helm but only H Norushen Chest and H Gloves from Norushen AND Galakras (i use galakras's right now)

[Totaltotemic]

So H Tier Gloves are worse than Norushen's H WF or just H gloves? Should I be using Heroic 4pc if I don't have H WF offpieces? I have H WF Helm but only H Norushen Chest and H Gloves from Norushen AND Galakras (i use galakras's right now)

Hit, Expertise, and Haste are all useful up until 2550/2550/12k with Crit being whatever's left over. Because you can theoretically change around hit/exp for any other stat, as long as you're not over cap even after reforging out a Exp/Crit piece is no worse than a Crit/Haste piece. The only things that truly make non-trinket pieces of gear worth less for WW is having mastery on it or having blue sockets (forced hit that you can't even reforge out of, like Reality Ripper Ring that has a blue socket AND hit on it).

The difference between 2 non-mastery pieces of the same ilvl as tier and the 4p bonus that forces you to take mastery is extremely insignificant but slightly favoring the tier bonus (it's still a 1-2% DPS boost). If you're letting a heroic WF non-mastery piece in the same slot as a tier piece that has mastery (gloves, chest, helm) sit in your bags in favor of wearing the 4p, that's probably a bad decision but even so that one piece might be a 0.5% DPS difference at that rate. The difference is far too small for me to care about making individual cases for 4p vs what off set items you have because it's a lot more permutations than the ones for the 2p, and the 2p has roughly double the value of the 4p while also being in reach with only having to wear low-budget items like gloves.

[psiko74]

Assuming I have access to every piece of gear. Which pieces should I get Heroic Tier and which should I get Heroic Warforged?

[jazzyy]

Hit, Expertise, and Haste are all useful up until 2550/2550/12k with Crit being whatever's left over. Because you can theoretically change around hit/exp for any other stat, as long as you're not over cap even after reforging out a Exp/Crit piece is no worse than a Crit/Haste piece. The only things that truly make non-trinket pieces of gear worth less for WW is having mastery on it or having blue sockets (forced hit that you can't even reforge out of, like Reality Ripper Ring that has a blue socket AND hit on it).

The difference between 2 non-mastery pieces of the same ilvl as tier and the 4p bonus that forces you to take mastery is extremely insignificant but slightly favoring the tier bonus (it's still a 1-2% DPS boost). If you're letting a heroic WF non-mastery piece in the same slot as a tier piece that has mastery (gloves, chest, helm) sit in your bags in favor of wearing the 4p, that's probably a bad decision but even so that one piece might be a 0.5% DPS difference at that rate. The difference is far too small for me to care about making individual cases for 4p vs what off set items you have because it's a lot more permutations than the ones for the 2p, and the 2p has roughly double the value of the 4p while also being in reach with only having to wear low-budget items like gloves.

so basically i shouldn't care that much is what i'm getting. it doesn't matter anyway because i was the most recent addition to my raid group so i'm basically last on every tier.

[Manatane]

My guild is only 6/14 25HC for now (only access to heroic chest) ; so i assume that going with 567 offset legs and 561 shoulder is better than NM set legs and shoulders ? (Immerseus 580 helm, Norushen 580 chest & galakras 574 gloves on other slots)

[DizzyMonk]

If your only 6/14 I would use NM Tier Shoulders and Legs. I would use Gloves and Chest off Nuroshen and Immersius Helm.

- - - Updated - - -

Assuming I have access to every piece of gear. Which pieces should I get Heroic Tier and which should I get Heroic Warforged?

I plan on using Heroic Tier Shoulders, Legs, and Gloves.

[Caeth]

I use WW monk as my offspec....so is 4 pc totally worthless? Otherwise I'll just replace my normal mode tier with heroic and heroic WF pieces.....

[Totaltotemic]

Okay, the above post was perhaps too long and a lot of people are glossing over it so I'll just boil it down to a TL;DR.

2p should be gotten pretty much no matter what (barring some extreme discrepancy like having LFR tier or Flex tier when you have Normal or Heroic gear), preferably with Gloves being one of the pieces and anything other than Helm as the other.

4p isn't something you should care about. If the two extra pieces are the same ilvl as non-tier pieces you'd wear instead, just wear the tier. If the extra pieces are higher than the 2 you'd wear to make 4p, then don't bother with the 4p. It's enough of a benefit to offset having mastery on the gear, but that's all, it's not something you should consider important or worth caring about.

[DizzyMonk]

I wouldn't say 4pc is totally worthless. I decided to switch to 2pc + HWF because I was blowing my TeB stacks whenever my trinkets proc'd which was sometimes <10 stacks.