Thread: Fix Your Class

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  1. #1
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Cool Fix Your Class

    Since we all know we could do a better job than those at Blizzard, right?and just as a bit of fun, I ask that everyone simply write the biggest pro & con of their class, and what they'd do to 'fix' both. ~

    Before we start: please don't derail this thread into bashing other peoples classes, make your own thread if you are upset with class balance. Try not to be that guy aka: pro's "nothing..." con's "everything". Try be realistic, don't suggest fixes that will obviously completely ruin game balance.

    You can then comment on the guy above yours suggestions stating whether you agree or disagree and what you'd change to keep this constructive.

    I'll start!


    Elemental Shaman

    Pro: Ridiculous random damage from procs & mastery.

    Fix: Since removing procs & mastery would literally trash elemental in PvP, I would suggest moving damage from Lava Burst to Lightning Bolt and Flame Shock(since Lava Burst is usually the biggest culprit from insanely large mastery procs).


    Con: Aside from lolprocs, we completely rely on hard-casting everything making the class easy to sit on to completely stop our damage.

    Fix: Without adding new spells to the game, I'd suggest things like the resto 4pc being baseline for elemental (interrupt immunity when SWG is popped) and/or perhaps fulmination stacking up twice as fast but dealing half the damage.



    ^ The guy above me is spot on and should be lead PvP designer!
    Last edited by Anzen; 2013-12-16 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    MW Monk

    Pro's: High Mobility - decent raid healing. High single target healing in PvP.

    Cons:

    (PvP) Susceptible to CC way too much. Fear/stun slip every 2 minutes, but nothing for poly's - incapacitate.
    (PvE) If you mess up ReM even by one GCD - you're eff'd. FW needs more healing, damage is not scaling that well with high ilevels as it should be.

    FIX: ReM should not require a target, will be a smart heal. MW needs something on the ground. SOO has groups stacking like its going out of style so shamy's and druids pull WAY ahead for doing nothing.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking

  3. #3
    Unholy Death Knight

    Pro: Ridiculous amounts of damage is dealt when we finally connect to a target.

    Fix: Remove the instantly dealt damage from NS (e.i. revert it to its original Cataclysm-state) so healers only have to worry about the debuff or alternatively pure damage from SS instead of the debuff

    Con: Terrible mobility. Most melee's have too many gap-closers (i.e. ferals, warriors and monks) and in order to counter that casters have too many tools to get away leaving DK's completely gutted as DG is essentially the only thing we've got. Survivability also bad, AMZ is useless now, AMS is a complete joke, healing (outside of Conversion in 2's) is basically nonexistant due to BF.

    Fix: BF should not affect Death Pact, AMS/AMZ and DC healing via Lichborne. Death's Advance should be baseline (without the on-use effect) or it could serve as the new set bonus. Return AMZ to its previous state so that Lichborne isn't the only option anymore.

    There are more issues to solve but these are the primary ones in my opinion. We still have many useless abilities in our talent tree. Certain abilities like Plague Leech, Asphyxiate, Desecrated Grounds, Gorefiend's Grasp etc are either bad or very broken and should be reworked. Personally I think Gorefiend's Grasp should work as an AoE DG but have its CD increased. Desecrated Grounds has to be replaced. Strangulate should be our thing, not Asphyxiate. To replace Asphyxiate we could have something that simply reduces the CD of Gnaw (the ghoul stun) which isn't as powerful and we could still have Strangulate. But the above issues are more important before all of these things.
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-12-16 at 02:31 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    MW Monk

    Pro's: High Mobility - decent raid healing. High single target healing in PvP.

    Cons:

    (PvP) Susceptible to CC way too much. Fear/stun slip every 2 minutes, but nothing for poly's - incapacitate.
    (PvE) If you mess up ReM even by one GCD - you're eff'd. FW needs more healing, damage is not scaling that well with high ilevels as it should be.

    FIX: ReM should not require a target, will be a smart heal. MW needs something on the ground. SOO has groups stacking like its going out of style so shamy's and druids pull WAY ahead for doing nothing.
    So what you're saying is that monks only need buffs? I suppose you're entitled to your own opinion. I think the mobility should be tooned down quite significantly, especially for PvP. The fact that certain classes have too many gap-closers doesn't really justify the current state of monk mobility, at least not entirely. I'm pretty sure even warriors have a hard time sitting on monks. It's like treating an issue with another issue and expecting the problem to be neutralized. Don't you agree? Many classes have too much CC as well, but the classes that don't are also very annoyed by Nimble Brew. You seem to be more of a PvE player so maybe you haven't really seen how annoying monk mobility can be in PvP.
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-12-23 at 07:36 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Since we all know we could do a better job than those at Blizzard, right?and just as a bit of fun, I ask that everyone simply write the biggest pro & con of their class, and what they'd do to 'fix' both. ~

    Before we start: please don't derail this thread into bashing other peoples classes, make your own thread if you are upset with class balance. Try not to be that guy aka: pro's "nothing..." con's "everything". Try be realistic, don't suggest fixes that will obviously completely ruin game balance.

    You can then comment on the guy above yours suggestions stating whether you agree or disagree and what you'd change to keep this constructive.

    I'll start!


    Elemental Shaman

    Pro: Ridiculous random damage from procs & mastery.

    Fix: Since removing procs & mastery would literally trash elemental in PvP, I would suggest moving damage from Lava Burst to Lightning Bolt and Flame Shock(since Lava Burst is usually the biggest culprit from insanely large mastery procs).


    Con: Aside from lolprocs, we completely rely on hard-casting everything making the class easy to sit on to completely stop our damage.

    Fix: Without adding new spells to the game, I'd suggest things like the resto 4pc being baseline for elemental (interrupt immunity when SWG is popped) and/or perhaps fulmination stacking up twice as fast but dealing half the damage.



    ^ The guy above me is spot on and should be lead PvP designer!
    Totally agree with this future PvP designer! But, even more so I would like to add that nerfing Warriors would probably be the easier choice at this point of the game. Every melee mobility down to DK lvl, and every casters instants nerfed to the ground. Would love to see how that would work out.

  6. #6
    Navigate to Priest repository -> Select all -> Delete.

    Well, making Shadow less dotty and taking holy back to its roots would also help, but I suppose holy will never be good for pvping anyway.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diabl0 View Post
    Navigate to Priest repository -> Select all -> Delete.

    Well, making Shadow less dotty and taking holy back to its roots would also help, but I suppose holy will never be good for pvping anyway.
    Making a DoT spec less "dotty"? WTF man
    And what do you mean holy will never be good for pvp? They are currently the most represented healers above 2200.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    Unholy Death Knight

    Pro: Ridiculous amounts of damage is dealt when we finally connect to a target.

    Fix: Remove the instantly dealt damage from NS (e.i. revert it to its original Cataclysm-state) so healers only have to worry about the debuff or alternatively pure damage from SS instead of the debuff

    Con: Terrible mobility. Most melee's have too many gap-closers (i.e. ferals, warriors and monks) and in order to counter that casters have too many tools to get away leaving DK's completely gutted as DG is essentially the only thing we've got. Survivability also bad, AMZ is useless now, AMS is a complete joke, healing (outside of Conversion in 2's) is basically nonexistant due to BF.

    Fix: BF should not affect Death Pact, AMS/AMZ and DC healing via Lichborne. Death's Advance should be baseline (without the on-use effect) or it could serve as the new set bonus. Return AMZ to its previous state so that Lichborne isn't the only option anymore.

    There are more issues to solve but these are the primary ones in my opinion. We still have many useless abilities in our talent tree. Certain abilities like Plague Leech, Asphyxiate, Desecrated Grounds, Gorefiend's Grasp etc are either bad or very broken and should be reworked. Personally I think Gorefiend's Grasp should work as an AoE DG but have its CD increased. Desecrated Grounds has to be replaced. Strangulate should be our thing, not Asphyxiate. To replace Asphyxiate we could have something that simply reduces the CD of Gnaw (the ghoul stun) which isn't as powerful and we could still have Strangulate. But the above issues are more important before all of these things.
    looking at the old wotlk and cata talent trees, where you can clearly see that some active and intersting def abilities simply disappeared and existing ones got nerfed to hell e.g. death strike, ams/amz....scales low, and this is before considering even BF.

    I rather don't think this class needs a fix considering also the broken state of frost too.

    this class needs a massive revamp similar what happened to locks. pre mop patch.

    Cause not only got the dk nerfed step by step without any meaningful buffs, but the fun was probably nerfed too, the necro stacking and rune generating mechanic in wow instaburstcraft feels so outdated now, it got no reasion to exist in a world where most dds have no resourcemanagment - and some not even stackable dmg mechanics to care for.

    i feel like not just beeing outdated but nerfhammered as well as dk, cause i would love my outdated skills back i had in woltk and cata, instead of the downscaled def we have to deal now.

    and why the heck every class gets so many powerful stuff baseline and the dk has to talent spec everything thats crucial?

  9. #9
    Frostmage

    Pro: you deal ridiculous amount of dmg with instants with your cooldowns.

    Fix: nerf ice lance dmg and put some in frostbolt

    Con dying too fast, mastery requires casting while getting trained all day

    fix nerf overall dmg of all classes, change mastery

  10. #10
    The Patient waldor22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    Unholy Death Knight

    Pro: Ridiculous amounts of damage is dealt when we finally connect to a target.

    Fix: Remove the instantly dealt damage from NS (e.i. revert it to its original Cataclysm-state) so healers only have to worry about the debuff or alternatively pure damage from SS instead of the debuff

    Con: Terrible mobility. Most melee's have too many gap-closers (i.e. ferals, warriors and monks) and in order to counter that casters have too many tools to get away leaving DK's completely gutted as DG is essentially the only thing we've got. Survivability also bad, AMZ is useless now, AMS is a complete joke, healing (outside of Conversion in 2's) is basically nonexistant due to BF.

    Fix: BF should not affect Death Pact, AMS/AMZ and DC healing via Lichborne. Death's Advance should be baseline (without the on-use effect) or it could serve as the new set bonus. Return AMZ to its previous state so that Lichborne isn't the only option anymore.

    There are more issues to solve but these are the primary ones in my opinion. We still have many useless abilities in our talent tree. Certain abilities like Plague Leech, Asphyxiate, Desecrated Grounds, Gorefiend's Grasp etc are either bad or very broken and should be reworked. Personally I think Gorefiend's Grasp should work as an AoE DG but have its CD increased. Desecrated Grounds has to be replaced. Strangulate should be our thing, not Asphyxiate. To replace Asphyxiate we could have something that simply reduces the CD of Gnaw (the ghoul stun) which isn't as powerful and we could still have Strangulate. But the above issues are more important before all of these things.
    AMZ will never be changed back, it was changed for pve so you had a viable raid cooldown.

  11. #11
    About the Ele shaman 'fix', did you consider that if you make Lavaburst too weak, it will never get cast because Lightning bolt outscales/damage it? I believe this happened once or twice during Cata

    I'm all against Casino specs, but I don't think this is the way to go about it.
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  12. #12
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    About the Ele shaman 'fix', did you consider that if you make Lavaburst too weak, it will never get cast because Lightning bolt outscales/damage it? I believe this happened once or twice during Cata

    I'm all against Casino specs, but I don't think this is the way to go about it.
    I don't see that happening for a while. Lava Bursts DPET is over double that of Lightning Bolts currently. You could buff Lightning Bolt by 25% and nerf Lava Burst by 25% and Lava Burst would still be quite far ahead.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    So what you're saying is that monks only need buffs? I suppose you're entitled to your own opinion. I think the mobility should be tooned down quite significantly, especially for PvP. The fact that certain classes have too many gap-closers doesn't really justify the current state of monk mobility, at least not entirely. I'm pretty sure even warriors have a hard time sitting on monks. It's like treating an issue with another issue and excpecting the problem to be neutralized. Don't you agree? Many classes have to much CC as well, but the classes that don't are also very annoyed by Nimble Brew. You seem to be more of a PvE player so maybe you haven't really seen how annoying monk mobility can be in PvP.
    I mainly PvP. I have a full grievous set. Only get to around 1800 - hoping more solid server groups form after my server (Archimonde) is merged as using OQ has its limits.

    I think that for pvp - our mobility is great. But our mobility is mainly from talents we choose. Celerity + Chi Torpedo. Without those - our mobility is next to none. What makes our mobility OP is the gloves set bonus removing any movement impairing effects on roll.

    Monks unfortunately are too susceptible to CC. We have nothing for poly, incapacitate, and can usually be trained while silenced (and not stunned). TFT should remove silence effects, but alas it does not. We dont necessarily need any major buffs, but a lateral counter would suffice. We have 2 CC's - which is the least of all the healing classes. If we had another that did not share DR with stun or paralysis we would probably be on par with the other healers. But that is where we are most weakest. Priest/Druid/paly and even shaman have WAY more CC's than we do.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by waldor22 View Post
    AMZ will never be changed back, it was changed for pve so you had a viable raid cooldown.
    It could behave differently in arenas. The ridiculous stat-scaling in PvE coused Battle Fatigue to be implamented in the first place. As if that was not enough, they completely ruined AMZ for PvP. It's not a proper way of dealing with it in my opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    I mainly PvP. I have a full grievous set. Only get to around 1800 - hoping more solid server groups form after my server (Archimonde) is merged as using OQ has its limits.

    I think that for pvp - our mobility is great. But our mobility is mainly from talents we choose. Celerity + Chi Torpedo. Without those - our mobility is next to none. What makes our mobility OP is the gloves set bonus removing any movement impairing effects on roll.

    Monks unfortunately are too susceptible to CC. We have nothing for poly, incapacitate, and can usually be trained while silenced (and not stunned). TFT should remove silence effects, but alas it does not. We dont necessarily need any major buffs, but a lateral counter would suffice. We have 2 CC's - which is the least of all the healing classes. If we had another that did not share DR with stun or paralysis we would probably be on par with the other healers. But that is where we are most weakest. Priest/Druid/paly and even shaman have WAY more CC's than we do.
    Ok yeah I totally agree with you on that, but other classes should have their CC nerfed rather than giving monks even more trinkets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Regarding Elemental damage. They could just limit the amount of flame shocks that generate procs. So that if you DoT 4 targets you won't gain procs from all of the DoT's. They could also just flat out nerf the mastery a bit.
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-12-18 at 05:01 PM.

  15. #15
    Warrior:
    Low damage, survivability and mobility. Need more damage off target so buff deep wounds by 50%. I also die too much so bake D-stance into battle stance. Bladestorm baseline.

    And yes that was sarcasm.

    Holy Pally

    Pro: Casted cc everywhere, shifting away from support role.

    Fix: Remove the fear talent, revert turn evil to previous state, replace with short duration silence/disarm. Remove blinding light for holy and instead shift more to buffing type stuff. Make hand of salvation pvp useful (maybe prevents target from being cc'd for 5 seconds).

    Con: Too easy to cc due to no baseline hots or shields or cc-break.

    Fix: Make hand of sacrifice unpurgeable, sacred shield baseline.
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  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    It could behave differently in arenas. The ridiculous stat-scaling in PvE coused Battle Fatigue to be implamented in the first place. As if that was not enough, they completely ruined AMZ for PvP. It's not a proper way of dealing with it in my opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Ok yeah I totally agree with you on that, but other classes should have their CC nerfed rather than giving monks even more trinkets.

    snip
    agreed. Until that happens - monks will not be your first or 2nd choice for higher rating. Not to say that is is impossible, but the path of least resistance is all other healers > Monk.

    We have to play an avoidance strat so they cannot get to me, but your group comp has to compliment that.
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  17. #17
    Shadow

    fix: make psychic horrror useable without needing an orb. Nerf shadow form defense and make one of our best defensive spells darn near impossible to get off while being trained. Its not like all melee dont salivate at the site of a sp or anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Shadow

    fix: make psychic horror usable without needing an orb. Nerf shadow form defense and make one of our best defensive spells darn near impossible to get off while being trained. Its not like all melee dont salivate at the site of a sp or anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Shadow

    fix: make psychic horror usable without needing an orb. Nerf shadow form defense and make one of our best defensive spells darn near impossible to get off while being trained. Its not like all melee dont salivate at the site of a sp or anything.

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    Shadow:

    Remove orb cost from PH
    Let Priest cast healing spells in Shadowform...every other hybrid doesn't have that penalty. Hell they even made the boomkin glyph baseline >.>

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    Balance Druid: Revert all the nerfs from the last patcgh. Last season Balance Druid were about perfect. Not to op, not to weak.

  20. #20
    WW monk: better synergy with other classes, TeB doesnt remove at the start of a boss.

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