Thread: Fix Your Class

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Disc Priests:

    Pro's: Pretty good at surviving burst but given the lack of CC or escape mechanics, I think it's about right.

    Con's: Hands down the worst CC in the game:

    Dominate Mind: causes you to be unable to do anything except run the enemy player about. Handy if there is a cliff nearby or in 2s where you want to prevent the enemy healer/dps from rescuing their team mate, but the loss of your own abilities is a real negative that mostly outweighs the positives.

    Psychic Scream: the most easily broken and escapable mechanic in the game - fear. Cooldown is pretty long at 27-30s and we have to be in melee range. It's meant to let us escape, but given that we are usually rooted or slowed and cannot physically get far enough away most of the time, and it's so easy to get out of, it's really just luck whether anyone hit by it is inconvenienced at all.

    Psyfiend: Again, fear so all of the above - with the added bonus of diminishing returns that stack with Psychic Scream and a health pool that I can one shot as a healer.

    Void Tendrils: Once again we have to be in melee range to cast, any DPS with half a brain can kill them in 1-2 shots. Meant to be an escape, but we don't have time (even if not rooted or slowed) to escape.

    Fixes:

    Priests biggest weakness is CC/escapes. This really shows in arenas. The CC we do have is incredibly weak, stacks DR with itself, and requires us to be in melee range which mitigates it's usefulness even more.

    That said, our healing is strong enough that I don't feel it needs boosting, our cooldowns are effective and game changing.

    These are the changes I would make:

    Psyfiend: Make it a dispellable horror effect, so that it doesn't stack DR with our own fear. Boost the HP of the psyfiend to be equivalent to the priests.

    Void Tendrils: Make it a ranged ability similar to how Mass Dispel works, everyone in the targeting reticule is rooted for 4s, roots cannot be DPS'd but can be dispelled. I understand that this is the same as other class mechanics, but the priest version is just too useless requiring melee range and having low HP.

    Alternatively either remove all roots and slows when it is cast, or allow priests to teleport a short distance away when it is cast (I actually like this, a nice shadowy poof and the priest slips away and the enemy is rooted).

    Angelic Feather: Allow this to be cast on players rather than placing feathers. Nothing is more annoying that someone accidentally (or deliberately) using your feathers at key moments and it can be so random. You think you're the closest player but somehow someone five yards away gets your speed boost. Great.

    So we sacrifice the ability to have 3 down and 3 stored, but in exchange it is cast on a player, removing some of the randomness.
    I can't believe you're actually requesting buffs for tendrils and feathers. Constant sprint and undispellable roots aren't enough? You need to understand that the shortcomings of priests right now originate from other classes being too good. Some classes have too much CC, you have enough. It's stupid to make your class overpowered (like last patch) just to beat druids when they should in fact just nerf other classes. You act as if your class only need buffs and as if all mechanics are fine. I don't care if priests are good or not, they have a lot of broken spells. I mean, don't you remember how disgustingly overpowered sprint > stealth > fear was? How everyone went behind walls to cast Penance? How DK's and Rogues were in roots all the time? Or how MC made them the best 2's healer? Or how priests were R1 world in the brackets of 2's and 3's. Use your brain m8 seriously, stop being so biased. A weak classes can still be broken...
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-12-23 at 03:14 PM.

  2. #42
    Put is simply, outsource game dev to other companies.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    I can't believe you're actually requesting buffs for tendrils and feathers. Constant sprint and undispellable roots aren't enough?
    I didn't ask for a buff to feathers, just that it be cast on player rather than a placed spell. If anything without the ability to place 3 and store 3 it's a nerf? Also it isn't constant sprint, it is roughly 36s assuming that you start with three feather stacks and refresh at < 1s remaining. Rogues have constant sprint. Priests do not, and once we're snared it's all rather moot anyway. Good for boosting flag carriers and chasing people is about it, rarely good to escape since everyone else has a slow/stun/root of some sort.

    As for tendrils, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. You obviously aren't smart enough to realise that they can be destroyed in a couple of hits by a DPS even when I told you as much. How is making them work the same as druid/shaman roots (which are dispellable) an overpowered buff? Are Druid/Shaman roots also OP?
    Last edited by Tarien; 2013-12-26 at 06:24 PM.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    I didn't ask for a buff to feathers, just that it be cast on player rather than a placed spell. If anything without the ability to place 3 and store 3 it's a nerf? Also it isn't constant sprint, it is roughly 36s assuming that you start with three feather stacks and refresh at < 1s remaining. Rogues have constant sprint. Priests do not, and once we're snared it's all rather moot anyway. Good for boosting flag carriers and chasing people is about it, rarely good to escape since everyone else has a slow/stun/root of some sort.

    As for tendrils, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. You obviously aren't smart enough to realise that they can be destroyed in a couple of hits by a DPS even when I told you as much. How is making them work the same as druid/shaman roots (which are dispellable) an overpowered buff? Are Druid/Shaman roots also OP?
    A couple of hits is enough time for the priest to get out of LoS anyway. Try again. You're the kind of player that ruins the game. Why is every damn class supposed to have the same spells. Sure shamans and druids have them, it's enough. Back in the day classes were special and everyone didn't have a silence, a root, a swifty macro, an auro mastery etc.
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-12-26 at 07:34 PM.

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    A couple of hits is enough time for the priest to get out of LoS anyway.
    Really? You're slowed/rooted/stunned and the 1-2 GCDs it takes to break the roots is enough time to get away is it? Laughable, you've clearly never played a priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    Try again. You're the kind of player that ruins the game. Why is every damn class supposed to have the same spells. Sure shamans and druids have them, it's enough. Back in the day classes were special and everyone didn't have a silence, a root, a swifty macro, an auro mastery etc.
    I'd rather have less CC overall, but the OP asked us to fix our own class not go through the other ten and decide which CC to remove.

    YOU are the kind of player that ruins the game with your brainless hand waving whenever a tiny change is suggested to another class.

    I make a couple of fairly tame suggestions (the feather one was more of a nerf than a buff!) and you freak out waving your arms like I just suggested we remove some mechanic entirely. This is why we can't have nice things, you're too busy QQing over the supposed OPness of other classes which you frankly know nothing about.
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  6. #46
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I want WOLTK DK back gimme my Blood DPS spec back so I can actually stand to play them. Also I want WOLTK Resto Druid back I loved Rejuv blanketing the entire raid, as well as Rogue I want our weapons to matter again and affect how we play.

  7. #47
    Blademaster djdfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    A couple of hits is enough time for the priest to get out of LoS anyway.
    With a dispel, it's instant (if it's up of course). He was asking for a ranged version, with this being the drawback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    You're the kind of player that ruins the game.
    Actually, it's quite the contrary from what I am reading. He's in a thread in which people are posting subjective responses on how they believe the overpowered abilities of classes can be toned down and/or how their class' shortcomings can be addressed. In addition, not only did he abide by these guidelines constructively, he also responded to you constructively and respectfully as well. If anything, it's people who are so quick to place judgement on others that are ruining this game; and I've seen quite a bit of this type of communication in game and on these forums to support my opinion.

    /rant

    Regardless, Disc Priest:

    Pro's: Trivializes a ton of burst damage. Void Shift is an amazing life saving tool; so is Leap of Faith. Not many key-binds to memorize, and glyphed SW is extremely useful when used to it's full advantage.

    Fix: I personally believe Void Shift is a little over the top in arenas given that many other classes have similar abilities disabled. Especially when used with DP or PoM as a macro, it's basically lay on hands. I believe a rework would be more useful than a complete removal of the spell from arenas, as Disc Priests don't possess the raw throughput that many other healers have to refill missing health pools.

    Con's: No interrupt (I can't tell you how much this bothers me when I watch all of those Polys go out), not as much through-put as other healers (I believe this is fine due to our shield capabilities), and lack of skillful CC.

    Fix: Not quite sure if I believe that Disc should get an interrupt. If it did, I'm sure it would be at the cost of something else. Further, this would just be more homogenization. Nevertheless, I wish we had a more controllable fear. If I want to CC another healer, 90% of the time I have to re-position making myself vulnerable (e.g. waiting for my teammate to CC, and Sprint>SG>Fear at the opposing healers location). I would certainly sacrifice PS or Psyfiend for a single target, ranged CC of sorts.
    Last edited by djdfields; 2013-12-26 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Typos, though I'm sure there are plenty more.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    Fix Arms War: Return ability to break from immobilizing effects from Intervene and add ability to break immobilizing effects to Heroic Leap and Charge.
    You serious? that would just make arms even more broken

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Really? You're slowed/rooted/stunned and the 1-2 GCDs it takes to break the roots is enough time to get away is it? Laughable, you've clearly never played a priest.



    I'd rather have less CC overall, but the OP asked us to fix our own class not go through the other ten and decide which CC to remove.

    YOU are the kind of player that ruins the game with your brainless hand waving whenever a tiny change is suggested to another class.

    I make a couple of fairly tame suggestions (the feather one was more of a nerf than a buff!) and you freak out waving your arms like I just suggested we remove some mechanic entirely. This is why we can't have nice things, you're too busy QQing over the supposed OPness of other classes which you frankly know nothing about.
    You've got to see it from the bigger perspective. As in how should your class be balanced assuming the rest of them get proper treatment as well. Keeping something broken isn't the solution. I mean look what happened to the game after WotLK or rather look what PvP has come to. All classes have everything, how can you justify that?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry if I come off a bit too offensively. I just really like good balance and want arena to be very competitive for all classes. Most people don't really care about that and go with the flow. I can't respect that but I suppose I'll accept it.

  10. #50
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Add a minor glyph to Trap Launcher to instantly trigger the trap's effect on the target, but be unable to throw traps at a range directly on the ground, converting traps to shots while active.
    Bake in the bonus damage reduction of Deterrence glyph.
    Make Tranquilizing Shot castable on self, removing harmful DoT effects but slowing the hunter for 2-3 secs.
    Make pets able to cast Claw/Smack/Bite when summoned by stampede, but lower their damage percentage by a bit more.
    REMOVE Aspect of the Hawk. Increase the effect of Haste and Mastery for all specs.

    Make Bestial Wrath no longer function as a PvP trinket, but instead make a separate ability that is baseline for all classes with a 2 min cooldown, remove pvp trinket.
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    *bro fist*
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  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    You've got to see it from the bigger perspective. As in how should your class be balanced assuming the rest of them get proper treatment as well. Keeping something broken isn't the solution. I mean look what happened to the game after WotLK or rather look what PvP has come to. All classes have everything, how can you justify that?
    As I said above, the OP asked for what we would do to fix our class only, if he had asked for what needed to be done to fix PvP as a whole, a "bigger perspective" as you say, I probably would have said tone down CC some more. But since it is just my class I am looking at, I would ask for better CC as that is currently what priest lacks (and has always lacked). I know that more CC is not the answer to the larger theme of PvP, but if it is just my class being considered, that is it's weakness.

    So that is how I justify it. I would rather we toned down CC overall than boosted priests however, as I do prefer the larger picture approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    Sorry if I come off a bit too offensively. I just really like good balance and want arena to be very competitive for all classes. Most people don't really care about that and go with the flow. I can't respect that but I suppose I'll accept it.
    You didn't come off offensive, you just didn't seem to be reading what I wrote (especially when you consider how carefully I considered the changes, they really were minor) and understanding why I wrote it. Hopefully the above clears that up. Also, in this thread you argue for buffs to DK and then proceed to criticize others who want only buffs for their class - so if I seemed a little hard with my reply, that is why as you seemed a little hypocritical
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  12. #52
    I'm okay with where Hunter is right now.

    I just recently came back to this expansion and there are a few things I find to be really dumb.

    1) Why do priests have a vanish? Seems ridiculous.
    2) Why do rogues get perma sprint? Who thought that was a good idea?
    3) Why do all DKs sit in Blood now? There has to be a way to fix that.
    4) Too much cc in the game.
    5) Skilled arenas are pretty bland. You used to be able to make weird comps work, it's harder than ever to pull it off now.
    6) Bring PVP gear back up to the same ILVL as pve gear so world PVP is balanced again.

    /endrant
    Orc/Human Hunter - Futon @ Nathrezim and Kel'Thuzad

  13. #53
    Ret Paladin

    Pros: Ridiculous burst with GoAK/Wings/Holy Avenger. Very good utility in a medium to long game.

    FIX: I'm not a fan of swifties in general but as a compromise I'd say merge Kings and Wings, but with reduced damage and an aggregated length for the buff and a 150 second cooldown. Instead move over the damage into Crusader Strike/Exorcism so that our sustain isn't something that gets laughed at.

    Cons: Despite an array of CCs in the form of HoJ/Blinding Light/Turn Evil, Rets are really really easy to train.

    FIX: Change the way Forebearance works on the Paladin itself. If the Paladin suffers a certain amount of damage during Forebearance, he/she is granted 'Reprieve' that removes the debuff. The effect cannot occur more than once every thirty seconds.

    FIX 2: Redesign the Tier 1 talents because they're godawful. Give speed of light a baseline root breaker and immunity to movement impairing effects for the first 4 seconds. Remove Burden of Guilt and incorporate its effect as a four second snare into Pursuit of Justice. Change Long Arm of the Law's effect to 55% for 4 seconds.

    FIX 3: Divine Protection provides baseline 30% damage reduction to all damage. It can be glyphed to 50% but would increase the cooldown to 2 minutes. Unbreakable Spirit would reduce this to one minute.

  14. #54
    Field Marshal eixx's Avatar
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    Give hunters the option to remove the pet

    ??

    Win!

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  15. #55
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Pro: As a resto druid, it's a pretty easy call to say our cc is the obvious biggest strength. Cyclone is easily the best cc effect in the game, but it's supposed to be balanced around having an actual cast time. I seem to recall a time when there was no soul of the forest, there was no disorienting roar, and NS was a 3 min cooldown. I'd put it all back that way too, although without also changing other classes it would just be too much. Given the game's current state, I'd probably try removing soul of the forest's interaction with non-heals. Even the best players don't consistently kick/ground/reflect sotf clones, which in my mind defeats the purpose of the cast time in the first place. Cyclone is generally supposed to be preventable, and robbing players of their opportunity to react makes for a poor game.

    Con: Druids have a pretty large weakness to cc right now, to the point where it's difficult to play without a mage or shaman. Again I believe this is the fault of other classes' bad mechanics (namely the abundances of sprints and instant ccs), but without altering anything else I think druids could use some level of self-support.

    First idea: Put all forms on their own shared cooldown instead of the standard gcd. Druids used to be able to just shift out of poly or hex, and while I don't disagree with the change it feels like some more of that traditional counter should still exist. Now, not only can pom poly and ns/maelstrom hexes be quite difficult to avoid, but you can actually get hit by a hardcasted poly just because you're gcd-locked. I'd be pretty content to just have something like this.

    Alternate idea: Give resto druids skull bash. Pretty self-explanatory, but in the current game I suspect it might have limited defensive use while being too strong offensively (esp. during hotw).

    Alternate idea 2: Give resto druids access to enrage, which would require bear form and break fears and incapacitates. I liked the way the original berserker rage played and it would be neat to have it return, even if for another class. I get the impression that ferals want a fear break again and something like this could work for them too, although I admit I don't know enough about feral right now to make a call on that.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    I think the point of this thread is to fix classes, not to make them even more overpowered :/
    But how will I tab target my way to 2200.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Shadowpriest:

    - Remove the Orb cost from Psychic Horror
    - Reduce the cooldown of Dispersion to 60 seconds
    - Remove all healing effects except Devouring Plague, Power Word: Shield, and Vampiric Embrace
    - Buff Shadow's Power Word: Shield by 50% (Shadow's shield sucks right now, and it's still dispellable of course)
    - Give Shadow defensive dispel magic again (now called Purify)
    - Shadowform is now a permanent effect upon speccing Shadow (meaning no dropping form for Flash Heal, etc)
    - Ethereal - new passive - upon speccing Shadow, you regenerate 1% of max mana per second

    This shifts our utility to dispels and shields, rather than healing - it reduces our self-healing/survivability, but increases our defensive cooldowns via dispersion and horror. It makes horror usable for the first time in this entire expansion (I literally don't even put it on my bars anymore). The mana return thing should solve the constant OOM-ness of Shadow in PvP, particularly when VT is being spam-dispelled - and since Flash Heal is no longer accessible, this doesn't present a risk of spamming Flash Heal.

    For WoD: Give us a teleport of some kind - even with all the above, we're still soooo prone to being sat on by melee - we need some way to escape some of the time (or we need to be tanky enough to survive being sat on all the time, but it has to be one or the other). I have ideas about what that could be, but we're the only caster without some way to gain distance from melee some of the time, and it shows.
    This. Just do it. It'll make Shadow awesome! Plus make Vampiric Touch uninterruptible while PW:Shield holds or something.

  18. #58
    Mage:

    Change Brain freeze into a haste buff that makes frost fire bolt a slightly faster cast then frost bolt but ffb deals more damage. Take damage off ice lances and split it between ffb and frost bolt. Remove the glyph of ice block and make counter spell a lockout rather then a blanket. Remove presence of mind and make it arcane only.

    New counter spell glyph when you lockout a spell cast your damage is increased by 5%/10%(which ever is more balanced). New Glyph of spell steal rather then a huge baseline mana cost. Spell steals costs is increased by 50% each time you steal within a 20 second period. The healing glyph of spell steal is removed. Mages can also steal nature swiftness and ancestral swiftness again. I just want spell steal to be used for important buffs.

    A glyph or talent that lets frost Mage's ditch our elemental like hunters but we lose the pet damage. In exchange frost nova becomes target able and is undispellable also generates fingers of frost. I just fucking hate the elemental's 45 yard range because it hurts more then helps honestly.

    Frostfirebolt would benefit from shatter regardless of the targets condition. This assuming every other class got fairly toned down btw.
    I sort of want Ice lances to be something you stack and save for an execute type situation rather hitting it every time a finger procs.

    Priest:
    Remove chastise.
    Remove psyfiend.
    Make mind control a longer cast so its harder to setup(2.50 seconds).
    Purge has a mana cost that increases based on its use within x seconds.
    Life swap taken out of arenas. Damage shouldn't be crazy enough that power word barrier and pain suppression aren't enough honestly.
    Remove feathers or guise + feathers doesn't work its just to much speed.
    I like guise you can use it to avoid swaps and stuns but it actually takes timing which makes it reasonable to me.

    Shamans:
    Old school tremor back you had to actually protect it rather then hurr I got out of derrr fear. I don't really play my shaman enough to give more input outside of what I wrote because its just sounds like bias : P.
    Last edited by worstpvperus; 2013-12-28 at 12:16 PM.

  19. #59
    WW Monk-

    Nerf Healing Sphere heal by 15-20% but make it have a wider radius, or dare I say it, targetable even with a short travel time. Right now it really screws over Monks that don't have stellar latency. It relies not only on you having good MS but also your partner having good MS.

    Make Paralysis have a different DR. Putting it in the fear DR for example will open up a lot more comps to the monk. Right now we can't take advantage of how OP Mages and Hunters are since we share Para DR with their really important spells like Poly.

    Please give us a 5 yard range on disable. Please. PLEASE.

    Make the Karma glyph baseline and give us a glyph that makes Flying Serpent Kick targetable at the cost of nerfing the range by 30% of what it is now.

    Buff Fortifying Brew. 20% reduction on a 3 min timer is just outdated design with stuff like Barkskin doing essentially the same thing but on a 1 min CD. Not to mention Warriors running around in 25% reduction with permanent defensive stance with very little drawback.

    Zen Meditation is a really cool spell but is useless in arena. I'd really like to see it buffed a little.

    And last but not least,

    FIX OUR F'ING HITBOX. I live in NZ so I am used to having around 180-200 MS while playing but I have next to no problems physically staying in range of something as an Enhancement Shaman or Rogue. With my WW I feel like I have to be right inside my target's butt before I start landing hits on him. I find myself having to use Paralysis instead of Disable when I should be in melee range but my disable isn't going off. Again, I have no problems shiv'ing something on my Rogue or landing that first Mangle as a Feral.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstpvperus View Post
    Priest:
    Remove chastise.
    Remove psyfiend.
    Make mind control a longer cast so its harder to setup(2.50 seconds).
    Chastise requires that the holy priest sacrifice a heal to get it, so if they enemy priest is doing this it's because they're better than you are and he doesn't need the heal.

    Psyfiend can be one shot. If you don't know this, it's a skill problem on your part not a problem with priests being OP.

    All that would happen with Mind Control is that we'd cast it 1s earlier when you're feared/stunned etc. As it is MC requires us to also do nothing while you do nothing, it's very situational and far from the more OP sorts of CC like 8s stuns, cyclone, mesmerise etc.

    Sounds to me like you just can't burst down a priest while AFK and this offends you, doubly the case since you're asking for a whole bunch of mage buffs when mages are one of the strongest arena partners you can have atm. Rogue/Mage in 2s is sick.
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