Did Monks Make It Through MoP With Dignity?

[Rucati]

PvE:

WW - seems a bit underwhelming, the damage is okay but they have little to no utility. Probably fine in 25man, but not too great in 10man, especially since melee is meh to begin with on most PvE fights.

BrM - Very strong from what I can tell. Our BrM takes a significant amount of damage, I feel it's more than our other tanks, but he also seems easier to heal for some reason. Overall, I think they're quite good.

MW - Strong. Very strong. Some of the best healing I've seen with infinite mana, we have one in our 10man and his healing is really really good.

PvP:

WW - BGs and 2v2 they're gods. Really strong, their self healing is incredible and their damage is very high. In 3v3 they're awful, they die incredibly fast if they're focused and they can't stay on targets long enough to do anything. If you pop Tigerseye Brew and you'll just get stunned/disarmed by any good team and do nothing during it, and without Tigerseye Brew stacks you do no damage. I haven't done 5s on my Monk, guessing they're bad there, but honestly 5s is nuts so really anything is possible. The right comps could definitely work with a WW for sure.

BrM - They can't PvP. Don't play a tank class in PvP, if you do, you're the worst.

MW - Very strong. Probably one of the top 3 healers in arenas, and since their AoE healing is strong I'm guessing they're good in RBGs. They do a seriously silly amount of healing though, and they're the hardest healer to kill right now. That being said, not many people play them and their PvP healing is probably the hardest healing in the game. They're by far the strongest 5v5 healer though, and one of the top 3 healers in 3v3.

[darkwarrior42]

I love my monk. The only reason I'm switching to my druid for WoD is that I feel the urge to go back to range dps with a healing off-spec... and while I love mistweaver, monk can't exactly do range dps.

But WW is my favorite melee dps (used to be rogue, but style influences my view of a class a *lot* and the loss of swords/axes in the off-hand killed my enjoyment of the rogue, since I was always combat), BrM is my favorite tank (used to be paladin, not as fond of their style of active mitigation in MoP), and MW is tied for my favorite healer (with druid).

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BrM - Very strong from what I can tell. Our BrM takes a significant amount of damage, I feel it's more than our other tanks, but he also seems easier to heal for some reason. Overall, I think they're quite good.

If you're judging the damage taken by recount or WoL or the like, keep in mind that any of those sources will count a lot of damage twice on the monk; once for when it gets absorbed by stagger, and a second time for when the stagger damage takes place. (Ex: You get hit for 1,000, stagger 500 of it... recount and WoL will show that as 1,500 damage, not 1,000.)

[Lastgope]

Love my Monk. Brewmaster actually made Tanking fun for me.

I do pretty good DPS in Windwalker with only a mix between Flex and LFR gear.

[Deleted]

i've played WW monk since the middle of HoF(1,5 months before ToT).

I can basicly say that what has been told earlier is true. We bring mediocre damage for a melee.

Melees in this expansion are absolute shit in a 10 man guild.

Being a mediocre melee dps puts us around the bottom 2/3's of the dps spectrum virtually every single patch. We had a glory time in ToT when you got Rune of Re Origination making it so you in random cases could be top dps, but most of the time you would be mediocre overall(counting ranged aswell, meaning it was decent dps). So. They nerfed RoRo, fucked up our mastery and today we are again mediocre among the melee dps.

As stated earlier we are most comparable with rogue, who outshine us in everything except one thing. You can change your spec.

So, dont do what i did and stick to WW because you like the spec. You will in most cases be a burden to your raid team.

As for Brewmaster. To me they feel like the squishiest tanks by far. However they also, most of the expansion, dealt far more damage then any other tank making up for that with good healers and being very good at managing cd's and active mitigation.

Mistweaver. To me they have seemed to be pretty decent the entire expansion. I have this as offspec atm, but if i was to pick a healer as main spec it wouldnt be a monk. As people before me have said the healing is to random on aoe.

I do very much enjoy tank healing on my monk though.

So to recap.

WW:
Every single range dps class in the game is better then you at damage and utility, plus they have had a better expansion when it comes to encoutner design.
As a melee you have medicore dps, and low utility

BrM:
Have had a good expansion. Slightly squishy, especially starting a new tier where you might be a but undergeared. Good damage.

MW:
Good overall, but a bit random on aoe healing(very nice mana regen).

[Kaeth]

As for Brewmaster. To me they feel like the squishiest tanks by far. However they also, most of the expansion, dealt far more damage then any other tank making up for that with good healers and being very good at managing cd's and active mitigation.

Brewmasters -- when played decently -- take somewhat less damage than the overall average for tanks in this expansion. This is assuming Shuffle uptime % in the high 90's (excluding fights with significantly low melee uptime), optimal use of Elusive Brew and survival cooldowns, Guard before predictable damage spikes, etc.

If you're judging the damage taken by recount or WoL or the like, keep in mind that any of those sources will count a lot of damage twice on the monk; once for when it gets absorbed by stagger, and a second time for when the stagger damage takes place. (Ex: You get hit for 1,000, stagger 500 of it... recount and WoL will show that as 1,500 damage, not 1,000.)

That's the most likely reason (other than playing with "bad" monks) you (Zabusasan) find monks to be "the squishiest tanks by far." Parsers double dip on Stagger when calculating damage taken, because the initial hit's damage value doesn't reflect Stagger, which is logged as an absorb (like if you were going to take a hit and PW:S soaked part of it), followed by a DoT for that same amount of damage (that was already counted as damage received -- even though it wasn't). Run-on sentences are awesome.

Brewmasters have an extensive tool kit with abilities to deal with any situation -- they just need to use them (correctly). If your observation of squishiness comes not from parsers but from the general "feel" of healing a monk, your monk tank may need to get more practice.

[Deleted]

Brm tanks are generally a bit squishier because we get away with gearing for full dps instead of effective EHP stats by playing well. If you go in with a well played full mastery Brm monk with competent healers to back him up you probably have the most durable tank this expansion.

Windwalkers got the short end of the stick this expansion, but the class is complicated and Blizzard made sure to avoid the DK scenario of early Wrath. I think they overdid it with WW, but it also stems a lot from the early issues with Tiger eye brew and their mastery. Ontop of this melee spots are already in high demand and there is little utility that can be added to the class.

Mistweavers started out ok but the RNG element of their healing makes it hard to use them in anything but 10ms. Their mana regen is through the roof.


I think we did ok, aside from the 'Let's not do a DK 2.0 in this expansion' approach by Blizzard.

[jazzyy]

Brewmasters -- when played decently -- take somewhat less damage than the overall average for tanks in this expansion. This is assuming Shuffle uptime % in the high 90's (excluding fights with significantly low melee uptime), optimal use of Elusive Brew and survival cooldowns, Guard before predictable damage spikes, etc.



That's the most likely reason (other than playing with "bad" monks) you (Zabusasan) find monks to be "the squishiest tanks by far." Parsers double dip on Stagger when calculating damage taken, because the initial hit's damage value doesn't reflect Stagger, which is logged as an absorb (like if you were going to take a hit and PW:S soaked part of it), followed by a DoT for that same amount of damage (that was already counted as damage received -- even though it wasn't). Run-on sentences are awesome.

Brewmasters have an extensive tool kit with abilities to deal with any situation -- they just need to use them (correctly). If your observation of squishiness comes not from parsers but from the general "feel" of healing a monk, your monk tank may need to get more practice.

Agreed. Brewmasters sit well. If you want a good example try having a Blood DK or a Prot Warrior solo soak Malkorok 10H Blood Phase. Now have a Mastery minded BrM? What a joke. Brewmaster's are ridiculous, they are by no means as good as the Prot Pally/Prot Warrior combo we're seeing in a lot of top end raiders but they're by no means a bad class, but they're seeing results from top end raiders like Midwinter's Daught.

[Alfryd]

MW - Very strong. Probably one of the top 3 healers in arenas, and since their AoE healing is strong I'm guessing they're good in RBGs. They do a seriously silly amount of healing though, and they're the hardest healer to kill right now. That being said, not many people play them and their PvP healing is probably the hardest healing in the game. They're by far the strongest 5v5 healer though, and one of the top 3 healers in 3v3.

O.o Really? Mistweavers have been significantly weaker than the other healers since their induction, at least in PvP. They have their heals linked to weak conceptions; it's either channel a spell which you know will get locked, HoTs which will get dispelled or green orbs that you have to manually run over or ask your partners to run over. Mistweavers have simply never been strong at PvP, at any point, and are easily replaced by literally every other class.

As it is, I quite enjoy my monk for healing PvE, but as someone said the lack of control is disconcerting. I like having infinite mana though, so it's swings and round abouts. I would say Mistweaver is a hit and miss spec; it was obvious that they wanted to try a different model of healing, but I just don't think it worked as well as they hoped.

The tanking I just don't like on principle (sorry, but the developing concept of a drunken tank dodging attacks just does not connect with my mind, and I'm the type of player that needs to see some logic behind classes even if it is a fantasy), but I enjoy WW. I'm a happy player with Mistweaver main spec and WW off spec.

[Juliansfist]

BrM do take a little more overall damage than the other tanks excluding blood DKs. The BrM advantage comes in healing required - only blood DKs can have a lesser healing required (comes down to boss mechanics) but BrM self-healing ability when weighed against damage intake usually makes a quality BrM the easiest tank to heal generally.

MW has been a really great healing class in 25 raids and may or may not shine in 10 player raids due to the mechanics. MW can do well in PvP but generally they are average-below average.

WW monks have middle child syndrome and their dps ranking can be a bit of a roller coaster ride as certain mechanics can be very favourable or unfavourable in comparison to other dps specs.

If you look at monks in regards to BrM then at the end of MoP you'd find them wearing a medal of the highest honour. Mistweavers have done well and can be pretty exceptional in the right hands. Windwalkers demonstrate what a balanced spec should look like and perhaps best illustrate how well balanced other dps specs are.

So did monks make it through MoP with their dignity? Without a doubt in my mind. Could the class a whole be improved? MW and WW still have a lot of wiggle that can be ironed out.

[Teriz]

IMO, Monks get way more respect than DKs ever did. Additionally, I've seen groups and raids look on in awe as a great Monk tank goes to work.

Of the three specs, Brewmaster is by far the best designed, and the level 100 talents look very balanced and good for every spec. This gives me high hopes for the class in WoD.

[Deleted]

I main a monk. Mistweaver in raiding and Windwalker in pvp, WW is strong in PvP but only certain aspects of it. MW in raids can be amaze but we suck a little in 25 man's or when paired with disc/holy pally. Overall the class is well balanced but coupd use some changes, like a better mastery for MW and less reliance on ReM and a bump in aoe heals. It's nothing major, we shine where we shine but are bad in other parts of the game.

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IMO, Monks get way more respect than DKs ever did. Additionally, I've seen groups and raids look on in awe as a great Monk tank goes to work.

Of the three specs, Brewmaster is by far the best designed, and the level 100 talents look very balanced and good for every spec. This gives me high hopes for the class in WoD.

You can definitely tell a mediocre monk to a good one, I was in a flex the other day with another MW monk, he outgeard me by 30 item levels, he did 70k less hps than me..... He couldn't manage his mana tea correctly and had reforged in to spirit, I had to give him a few pointers and tell him the benefits on chi brew/crit.

[antelope591]

Meh, personally I'm considering rerolling for the next expansion.....being a monk was alright but too much of a roller coaster. Massive sweeping changes each patch to MW/WW does not make for a fun class to play. My thoughts on each spec

WW - I feel their DPS is in a good place. If its an AOE fight I only lose to OP locks, if its single target damage is still very competitive. Might be a skill issue with my guild but I never have trouble getting close to the top of the meters. The fact that they bring no utility and meele is just in a shitty place in general is a big minus tho. Would definetly not continue to the next expansion if this was the only spec I played.

MW - Great in 10, shitty in 25. Once again too many sweeping changes to the spec each patch. All will depend on how beta goes and what changes will be made to healing in general. Can't even begin to speculate on what the spec will look like in WoD since its gotten like 3-4 overhauls already in MoP. How Beta goes for this spec will decide whether I switch classes or not.

BM - Obv the best shape out of the monk specs, have been top tank for the last few patches. Nothing to complain about really

[Spoonman]

Wws are rare due to the fact that they are just another melee class, their dps is fine but more prefer ranged dps than melee Tbh, at least i do.

Brm got some great gameplay but they arent competitive in damage taken compared to dks right now. Dk being bis now when paladin was nerfed

Im not sure about mistw, they are a bit rare but from what ive seen there healing is realy good.

[Rioo]

I have pretty much just leveled to 90 in dungeons and gone through the lfr experience before I grew bored, so I can't really say much. Healing was interesting and fun, and monks have way too many tools for one spec compared to other classes. Warlock teleport, better mobility than druids, several powerful defensive CDs and a bunch of other stuff like stuns and disarms. It's a joke imo. DPS was really boring in every way and in raids our monk can't really do anything a rogue already does better.

[Vishiz]

Wish I would of just stuck with my rogue instead of rerolling Windwalker. Feel like my raid would of benefited a lot more. Playing a WW is fun but rogues and warrs are overall just better for a raid group. We're pretty good damage on a handful of fights but i feel my best use this tier was going brewmaster and kiting the adds in p3 garrosh and the ironstar in the last. And I found hardly no fun in that.

If they aren't given some sort of raid cooldown(or everyone elses is removed), and some real controlled burst next xpac, I'll return to playing my rogue again in WoD. Starting at level one isnt the reason you see so few of em. If they were worth leveling, people would level them. But if you alreayd have a rogue or a warrior, there is no reason to.

[Deleted]

I think every class should have one good pvp or pve spec. monks are kinda meh at both. they have cool spells though.

[Dakara]

Wish I would of just stuck with my rogue instead of rerolling Windwalker. Feel like my raid would of benefited a lot more. Playing a WW is fun but rogues and warrs are overall just better for a raid group. We're pretty good damage on a handful of fights but i feel my best use this tier was going brewmaster and kiting the adds in p3 garrosh and the ironstar in the last. And I found hardly no fun in that.

If they aren't given some sort of raid cooldown(or everyone elses is removed), and some real controlled burst next xpac, I'll return to playing my rogue again in WoD. Starting at level one isnt the reason you see so few of em. If they were worth leveling, people would level them. But if you alreayd have a rogue or a warrior, there is no reason to.

Feel the same about my Pally. I like classes who can cover all 3 roles, but feel the pally does a better job. Don't regret devoting mop to my Monk, but getting my Pally back up to speed for WOD.

WW Monks are in a better place than Ret imo, but MW is terribly broken and gimmicky with too much "smart healing" and not enough targeted on demand heals. BrM vs Prot is personal preferance as both are in good places, personally I prefer Prot, and really wish monk attacks werent all "brew" related (ie hhurling beer kegs), as it just seems silly to me.

So ultimately, wasn't worth the reroll.

[Deleted]

I really don't get the earlier statements about WW Dps being some kind of mediocre or lackluster. While I played HoF and the other instances as a Brewmaster in a 10 man group, I played the ongoing Contents as a Windwalker in a 25 man group. Luckily I got the Rune thunderforged at our second Lei Shen kill and guess what? I raided the entire heroic content as one of the most valuable Players because of the absurd damage potential. The HC TF version of the Rune made it even more absurd and it was really hard to match my Dps on Raden..
Sure this was really OP stuff, but I didn't feel under-powered in SoO either. Monks shine in their scaling with only one good main-hand weapon, where others need high Gscore to be somewhat competitive in the starting heroic progression.

WW is fine, it has the potential (if played correctly) to be one of the strongest DD's in a 25 man group. Its a fun class to play, very mobile and strong in survival. The class lacks a raidCD, nothing more.

Brewmaster are so incredible fun to play, but others already made a point here. Additionally its the strongest second specc for an Windwalker. You might as well do some extra work (kiting, tanking) in your DPS gear. Having both specializations is a huge bonus for getting that spot in a serious raiding guild. At least in 25 man mode and may be in mythic too, who knows..

Did they make it in dignity? Yes, some speccs were so broken that they had to be nerfed and now are mostly balanced. I think they had their place in each raid format.

[Deleted]

No. I and everyone I know that are returning in WoD will meet every monk and panda alike with animosity and hate.

How old are you, twelve? Not surprised you are banned with that attitude.

OnT: Yes, we have looked for a MW-healer for quite some time, and finally got one. Great healing, also great at tanking/dps even without raidcds.

[Xiu the Timewanderer]

I usually play tanks and healers in competitive environments.

Then Windwalkers became a thing, and it's now the only DPS I want to be competitive as. Most fun as dps I ever had, with great personal utility and best mobility in the game at the moment.