Extending Raid Lockouts

[DizzyMonk]

Should the decision to extend a raid lockout be left up to only the officers or to the entire raid? Just wondering how everyone feels about this.

[-Superman-]

I think if you lock them out for longer periods of time, content will last longer; however, they will also bitch more. Catch 22.

[Kaawumba]

I'm the raid leader of my guild. I usually explain whether I think we should extend or not and then hold a ready-check vote and go with the simple majority. It keeps the drama down. Usually the votes are fairly unanimous, but sometimes it splits down the middle. We usually target 50% farming and 50% progression by hours played. We only raid 4 hours a week and are 13/14 normal, so we generally extend every other week.

[Kethmil]

I use to take it down to all my raid, not only my officers.

Im RL and GM, btw.

Anyway, it all depends on how much your RL value your opinions. I've seen guilds where the only opinion that counts, whatever the matter, is the RLs. But I kinda dont agree with that point of view.

If your RL takes decisions that you dont like and doesnt take your opinion into account you got two options:

1. Acknowledge them.
2. Leave guild and search another with similar opinions to yours.

[-Superman-]

I'm the raid leader of my guild. I usually explain whether I think we should extend or not and then hold a ready-check vote and go with the simple majority. It keeps the drama down. Usually the votes are fairly unanimous, but sometimes it splits down the middle. We usually target 50% farming and 50% progression by hours played. We only raid 4 hours a week and are 13/14 normal, so we generally extend every other week.

This is what my old guild did. Seemed to work well.

[Vaelorian]

It should be the decision of the guildmanagement. Sure if it is clear that the rest of the guild doesn't think it is a good idea, then the GM and officers would be fools to push forward anyway.

When I was GM of a serious committed guild, I also had guildforums. What would happen when we made a decisions on where to go or what to do: If people would argue that the course that me and the officers set out was not what the guild wanted, we would go ahead for that evening or week (in the case of extended raids) and we'd have a good discussion on the forums on why it is a bad idea.

The few times I used Extended Lockout, I communicated this first on our forums that next week we would use this option. We'd had a discussion beforehand. Though since we were serious about progression, no one argued.

My opinion and experience tells me that using the Extended Lockout Option (ELO), on a regular basis is a very bad idea. People like to get upgrades and unless you:
- are at the end of a patch or expansion and your guild only has so many more evenings/time to down the last boss(es)
- are a guild that is in severe competition with another guild to down a specific boss in order to up or keep your current realm/world rank (which in turn makes recruitment easier)

These 2 motives are the only valid motives to use the ELO.

If you use it for other motives you as management might get away with it a few times spread out during an entire expansion. But I think you'll get drama with the guild sooner rather then later. And the guild would have it imo at the right end of the stick.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

- are at the end of a patch or expansion and your guild only has so many more evenings/time to down the last boss(es)
- are a guild that is in severe competition with another guild to down a specific boss in order to up or keep your current realm/world rank (which in turn makes recruitment easier)

These 2 motives are the only valid motives to use the ELO.

If you use it for other motives you as management might get away with it a few times spread out during an entire expansion. But I think you'll get drama with the guild sooner rather then later. And the guild would have it imo at the right end of the stick.

agreed. Unless there is no loot left to be had from the prior bosses for all of your raid, it is almost always the better idea for most guilds to not extend. Not only do the raiders who've been unlucky get another chance at gear, but it is more practice and working together; as you do it more, it should go faster, get easier as your experience with the fights increase and ultimately so does your character power.

Steamrolling a few early bosses is also good for morale, especially in the non-top tier guilds. If you extend lockout, and the boss is unusually troubling for your group, you might just wipe all night with no sense of victory as people learn phase transitions, positioning, damage spikes, movement, etc. Once in a while is ok, but if you do that too much, average people will tire of it fast; while if they get to have some fun with fights they know well and are lighter on the difficulty curve; it could be just enough inspiration and enjoyment to make the wiping not as irritating for some when you hit your current wall.


You have to think of the psychology of the group, and know your raiders well in that regard. Some people are great at dealing with wiping 10s/100s of times a night and do it for the thrill of progression. Some need a bit of confidence boost that clearing things and performing well can do with earlier bosses. If you checked out the charts a while back on MMO-Champ; you could see how brick walls were a cause of a decline in raiding overall. Too early of a wipe fest in overall progression and is breaks people instead of challenges them.


It all comes down to your particular group, what your guild/raid intentions are, and what people expect. A GM/RL should have set rules that everyone follows, including themselves, should have 'mission' statement - goals/intentions of the raid group ... and should have great communication and people skills to convey both the issues at hand, discuss paths forward, and to know what's best for the group overall and be able to explain why and have the group understand.

[AeneasBK]

It should be the decision of the guildmanagement. Sure if it is clear that the rest of the guild doesn't think it is a good idea, then the GM and officers would be fools to push forward anyway.

/thread. OP if your GM wants to extend and you think its a bad idea (or vice versa) talk to him about why you tihnk you should/n't but go with what they decide either ways. If they keep making decisions you think are bad; thats another issue

[DizzyMonk]

In my situation the officers decide to extend last weeks raid 12/14H cleared. We were making solid attempts on Paragons last week and they felt that we would be able to kill it if we extended. We raid 4 nights a week btw. I'm not really bothered that they chose to extend but a few of my friends were. They felt that we have plenty of time to kill Heroic Paragons and Heroic Garrosh before WoD and that people just need more gear.

[Tziva]

I'm GL/RL.

I try to do a balance. Usually I let the raid vote (or discuss in advance on our forums), but there are some weeks when I know the only way we're going to get what we need to do done is extend because too much time is wasted reclearing, and I make an executive decision. I try not to do that too often because even though I'm leader, I still want my raid to be happy.