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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    Like to point out my main is usually in top 3 for dps - and i never raid, cannot stand the elitist little bed wetters in the raiding guilds.
    he was aiming that at me but missed the point where my mains gear was mostly gemmed.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zanjin/simple horde main
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post25856782
    Coming soon Expansion ideas: Age of N'zoth, Assault on Agrus.

  2. #402
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Bull. I just told you, if I was unwittingly doing something that was sub-optimal I would want someone to, at a minimum, tell me its not the best way to do it.
    The problem is that it's difficult to tell with someone who is being 'sub-optimal' as opposed to outright bad, AFK or whatever. Sub-optimal is the sort of thing you sort out with a log most times. AFKers don't need advice, they need to be kicked. And if someone is simply not doing well but is obviously trying it's very difficult to do anything about that right then unless you have 20 minutes down time waiting for a tank or something.

    I used to try and help people but I no longer really do. People have their defenses up from the get-go and are usually unwilling to listen to anything that's unsolicited. If someone asks that's different but even then if they ask in instance chat before you can say anything there's usually a volley of "Don't suck" advice which is pointless and any chance one had to do something positive is usually lost. Trying to help someone you're never going to see again in the Raid Finder environment which is either pretty quiet and moving along or entirely messed up and bogged down is just a problem. Those that still make the attempt have my respect but I'm not going to be joining them any time soon.

    I understand that help sometimes happens but I think it rare and the exception rather than the rule for all of the above reasons as well as a dozen others I can think of.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaltazarDZ View Post
    You tell them that they are wrong and afterwards they can handle their own feelings however they want. The problems start when people start throwing around/replying to personal insults.
    As often as not it's impossible to distinguish the difference between telling someone they are wrong and personal insults. Despite what you wrote this is perfectly obvious and I'm quite sure you're aware of that.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-12-20 at 12:31 AM.
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  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I used to try and help people but I no longer really do. People have their defenses up from the get-go and are usually unwilling to listen to anything that's unsolicited. If someone asks that's different but even then if they ask in instance chat before you can say anything there's usually a volley of "Don't suck" advice which is pointless and any chance one had to do something positive is usually lost. Trying to help someone you're never going to see again in the Raid Finder environment which is either pretty quiet and moving along or entirely messed up and bogged down is just a problem. Those that still make the attempt have my respect but I'm not going to be joining them any time soon.
    For any number of reasons, some people have great trouble realizing this, because THEIR particular case is special.

    "Maybe in most cases, but I'm a very polite person."
    "My information is entirely accurate and that's all it is, information."
    "It's essential to this group that I convey this message to you."
    "You have a responsibility to all of us to listen to me."
    "If you don't listen to me then you're a bad, frankly."
    "You will bond with me once I share this insight with you."
    "I know that you will appreciate my comments because I can see that you already look up to my experience."
    "People always thank me for selflessly spending my time to improve others' gameplay."
    "I understand that most people don't like advice from strangers, but I have something really useful to tell you."

    But as a rule, how it works out is:

    "Who are you? Did I ask for your help? No. Shut up."

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Oh god the irony haha. LFR was introduced because whiny bads were upset there was content not for them. They had content for them and the raiders had content, but these players insisted on more. 4.1 players could have spent their time enjoying the dungeons as raiders did raids, but oh no, there better not be content for somebody else!

    There is nothing elitist about anything you described. LFR has inflated gear requirements even more, not less. Why do you think the cloak is mandatory for many groups? BECAUSE IT IS OBTAINABLE IN THE EASIEST MODE BY THE WORST PLAYERS. Raiders seek to cooperate, not step on others and hope enough dps are paying attention that they can afk. Thats why raiders don't like new players, because new players are less likely to be able to carry their own weight. Why new players cant group with other new players idk, mostly because a group of 10 LFR players isn't willing to do progression raiding, they want to join a 11/14 guild run.
    Or could it be the consequences of sticking together 25 randoms potentially without any raid experience was underestimated.
    LFR did not inflate requirements, players did.
    The game did not decide the requirements had to be higher, it was something players dictated.
    The game does not spontaneously ask for a higher ilvl than that specified in the UI.
    Players do that.

    I will agree the Journal has a lot of room for improvement as a previous poster stated.

    If you want people to get better, then talk to them.
    Shoving up gear requirements does nothing of the sort.
    Achievements rarely prove anything of the capabilities of the individual.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-12-20 at 01:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    i completely agree.... long time tank and now I DPS some just b.c. of how tanking is. I hate "active" mitigation, and tank dps numbers. I liked it when my focus on was generating threat, grabbing adds, boss positioning, and watching out for the big hits. Heck if you had a threat lead you could auto attack and focus on other things if needed, and help direct the raid but now your expected to put up decent numbers, and use some CD's almost every time they are up.
    I honestly don't mind the Active Mitigation system. It's the Vengeance system which turned us into a DPS class that ruined it for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BaltazarDZ View Post
    sadly you need DPS to enjoy the rest of content.It's discouraging to do questing,farming, rep grinding etc. as a healer or tank if your specialization makes it terribly slower and sometimes even impossible unless overgeared compared to DPS class.
    Which is actually the very reason they invented and implemented Dual-specialization. Besides that, they can still give tanks good damage without it being a necessary part of raiding they just don't want to right now.
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  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Are you stipulating that the raid MoP tier designs were half-assed at the normal/heroic difficulties? Because that's how they are designed and then LFR is nerfed from there to insure a more-or-less successful experience. As for people AFKing through it, those people--many of whom are quick to call others lazy without a shred of self-awareness--are more the problem than the design ever will be.

    If you believe that the harder difficulties suffered in some way due to LFR, that's an opinion (probably an incorrect one). If you aren't I don't quite see your point. And if you're one of the "WoW should be hard work" crowd, other than telling you that it's a video game I don't have a lot for you. Your 'hard work' and success at the higher difficulties should be a source of self-satisfaction. What others do is really none of your business and I have no idea at all why you and others like yourself think it is.

    Harder difficulties only suffered diminished prestige because of LFR (though I'm sure that did indirectly make the whole raiding scene suffer). My point was, that LFR does not justify raiding as the end game or as the biggest development resource hogger, if for 95% it's merely a quick afk'ed tourist mode and at the same time it diminishes the prestige of the 5%, whom should be some kind of trend setters in WoW.

    What is the definiton of "hard work"? Is regulary playing a sport with my friends or in some team hard work, because to get to play I have to train regularly, think of tactics and otherways I can better myself all the time, stay 100% focused on it when we are playing with set practise and game times. All the while paying some sort of fee for it all, without this fee entitling me to crap.

    And if you prefer to think WoW or MMOs in general more as a world than theme park, then it's obvious that what others do effects my mentality too, and that is why "no work" and success at things of lower difficulty was not enough for the casual crowd, they wanted epics and they wanted to kill raid bosses just because someone else was getting them and doing it, even though it did not affect them at all. You have to remember that in BC model for example, the heroics were suppose to be end game for most, and a lot of resources were used on them while they were totally useless for the raiders, so the "my 15 bucks were not used to design things that I play" argument has worked both ways. And dont get me even started on PvP'ers who are also a major crowd for this game.

    So LFR is bad for the prestige of raiding, hurting prestige of raiding is bad for the game, but having raiding as the only end game is just dumb and lazy.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    There is no "pausing" or "holding your place." Blizzard explains the feature that way but it doesn't/can't possibly work that way.
    What are you talking about? Of course it can work that way. Each LFR has three queues: Tank, Heals, and DPS. Each position in the queues has two states: Available and Paused. When someone is needed for a certain role then the next non-paused player in the queue is removed from the queue(s) for that instance and put into the instance. That player's positions in the other queues are then put into the Paused state. It's not even hard to do, let alone impossible. There's even a formal name for this concept: Priority Queue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Blizzard uses the time spent while inside content as a bonus to artificially advance players who have queued for multiple instances.
    That would be much more complex to implement. The priority queue scheme I outlined above already factors in the time you spent inside content because your position in the queue is established at the time you queue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Blizzard's matchmaking/queuing system is really quite complex and I think pretty versatile and overall amazing.
    If it's that complex they're doing it wrong. Have you actually looked at their source code? You talk as if you actually programmed for them or something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geish View Post
    Harder difficulties only suffered diminished prestige because of LFR (though I'm sure that did indirectly make the whole raiding scene suffer).
    Trust me, whatever "prestige" you thought you had by virtue of completing harder difficulties was all in your mind and in the minds of a few other WoW players like you. Very few who exclusively run LFR ever associated harder difficulties with the word, "prestige." It's kind of hard to diminish what never existed to begin with. Like MoanaLisa said, "'hard work' and success at the higher difficulties should be a source of self-satisfaction." That's it. There's no prestige associated with success in WoW and there never was. If you're pursuing prestige through WoW then you're doing it wrong.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-12-20 at 04:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  8. #408
    Stood in the Fire silver9172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Because Flex still requires a third party addon, ever-escalating gear requirements (530 a few weeks ago, 540 now), and about 2-3 hours to organize. I queue for 5 LFR instances at once, run dailies and/or dungeons, and knock out two or three LFRs at one time in 2-3 hours. While I got my dailies done and collected my Secrets of the Empire you were still waiting for your oqueue group to get going. What's casual and fun about your way?
    I've ran flex tons of times and I've never had to use a 3rd party add-on to do so. If you don't like the requirement someone has on their flex, start your own run. You can fill to the min of 10 rather quickly during peak hours, even faster with OpenRaid.us.

    Also, while you spent 2-3 hours doing dailies and getting your secrets, I spent the same amount of time and cleared the whole place on flex.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by silver9172 View Post
    Also, while you spent 2-3 hours doing dailies and getting your secrets, I spent the same amount of time and cleared the whole place on flex.
    Flex is only for SoO. Secrets only drop from the first two SoO wings. Most of the secrets are only going to drop in ToT, so LFR is still the fastest way to get them for most people. That's beside the point, however. My point is that LFR is not nearly as time consuming or as big a source of failure as so many make it out to be. The idea that Flex will kill it is wishful thinking. I'm still at a loss as to why so many people want to kill content that they don't want to run under the excuse that there is already similar content that they prefer to run. If you want to run Flex good for you. I'm not calling for Flex to be killed because I'm happy to run LFR. I don't understand players who are calling for LFR to be killed because they would rather run Flex. Just do whatever content you like and let others do whatever content they like.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    For any number of reasons, some people have great trouble realizing this, because THEIR particular case is special.

    "Maybe in most cases, but I'm a very polite person."
    "My information is entirely accurate and that's all it is, information."
    "It's essential to this group that I convey this message to you."
    "You have a responsibility to all of us to listen to me."
    "If you don't listen to me then you're a bad, frankly."
    "You will bond with me once I share this insight with you."
    "I know that you will appreciate my comments because I can see that you already look up to my experience."
    "People always thank me for selflessly spending my time to improve others' gameplay."
    "I understand that most people don't like advice from strangers, but I have something really useful to tell you."

    But as a rule, how it works out is:

    "Who are you? Did I ask for your help? No. Shut up."
    Don't forget that they talk about how they have a life and you don't,. Which is why you are capable of not sucking.

  11. #411
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geish View Post
    Harder difficulties only suffered diminished prestige because of LFR (though I'm sure that did indirectly make the whole raiding scene suffer). My point was, that LFR does not justify raiding as the end game or as the biggest development resource hogger, if for 95% it's merely a quick afk'ed tourist mode and at the same time it diminishes the prestige of the 5%, whom should be some kind of trend setters in WoW.
    Prestige is all about respect since there's none without it. And whether or not you personally feel respected in game should be more of a social function of your guild than a reflection of how you believe others should feel about you.

    People are prone to take their own self-satisfaction and project it onto others and they're free to do that but trust me in this: Most people outside of a tight social circle could not care less about your gear, your accomplishments or anything else that you've done. The only time they notice you is when you park on the mailboxes in front of the AH and then it's only to be annoyed. The only thing interesting about the attitude displayed by some raiders encapsulated in belief in their own specialness is that it exists at all.

    All the rest of us have our own game to play be it solo or within our own circle of friends, family and guildmates. We don't standing around in our free time wishing there was someone around that we could hero-worship. The measure of a person's worth is something much greater than whether or not they play video games well. Most of us know that. Those that don't will figure it out at some point. It's shallow, unimportant and self-deluded. Blizzard took nothing away from you when they added greater access to raiding to the game.

    TL : DR - Nobody outside your friends and guild owes you anything for your game competence. Stop acting like someone does.
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  12. #412
    I don't normally offer advice in LFR.

    If someone asks sure I may say something otherwise I do whats required and make some chit chat with the group in general. If someone majorly fucks up I will point it out (had a DPS monk taunt jugger and die get a res and do exactly the same thing pointed out he denied it 4-5 other people in the raid concurred with me and we asked him to maybe check his key bindings to ensure he does not taunt a boss again as he might die. There was no rage just a simple : X you taunted the boss died got a res and taunted the boss again you might want to check you're not using your taunt as a DPS. X retorts "but i did not taunt" *raid* the tank had tons of threat and then the boss turned around hit you as you're threat was suddenly above the tanks you don't even have the highest damage either...

    Sure it may not have been the most polite but since a res was wasted and a potential raid wipe could have occurred I pointed it out. If someone gets angry over that it is not my problem. If the said person constantly does the same mistake that is holding the raid back a simple vote kick solves the situation. For the most part in LFR its mainly AFK or ragers that get a kick people a bit low on damage are not a big issue tbh.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Flex is only for SoO. Secrets only drop from the first two SoO wings. Most of the secrets are only going to drop in ToT, so LFR is still the fastest way to get them for most people. That's beside the point, however. My point is that LFR is not nearly as time consuming or as big a source of failure as so many make it out to be. The idea that Flex will kill it is wishful thinking. I'm still at a loss as to why so many people want to kill content that they don't want to run under the excuse that there is already similar content that they prefer to run. If you want to run Flex good for you. I'm not calling for Flex to be killed because I'm happy to run LFR. I don't understand players who are calling for LFR to be killed because they would rather run Flex. Just do whatever content you like and let others do whatever content they like.
    It takes time to beta test LFR to make sure it is Facebook enough, then LFR is priority for hot fixes after the patch. LFR has also damaged enchanting markets, contributed to item level inflation, replaced other forms of casual content that some may enjoy on their alts, taken a spot in gear progression, and most of all damaged the lat tenements of server community or pug community an just contributes to more of the issues caused by lack of accountability within the game.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It takes time to beta test LFR to make sure it is Facebook enough, then LFR is priority for hot fixes after the patch. LFR has also damaged enchanting markets, contributed to item level inflation, replaced other forms of casual content that some may enjoy on their alts, taken a spot in gear progression, and most of all damaged the lat tenements of server community or pug community an just contributes to more of the issues caused by lack of accountability within the game.
    Enchanting markets not a concern. Cheaper prices for all is a good thing. The only "other" form of casual content that got replaced by LFR are 5mans and is a valid point. I would like to see more 5man content. But if LFR did not exist raiding would have been cut back by now (not gone but would have got less resources). It has a spot in gear progression but only as a form of catch up. If you are a normal mode or heroic mode raider aside from very poor RNG you should not need LFR gear. infact you won't need it full stop aside for cutting edge progression (and the way it works atm LFR gear is not that helpful).

    As for your last comment thats up for speculation. I found that the community has not been the same since Vanilla but that might be my jaded thinking.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It takes time to beta test LFR to make sure it is Facebook enough, then LFR is priority for hot fixes after the patch.
    Except they don't take the time to beta test LFR, and that's why there are so many hotfixes to it after the patch. I find it odd that you're using priority and LFR in the same sentence given that fact. There are also hotfixes for regular and heroic raids when they first release so I don't see how they can be suffering at LFR's expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    LFR has also damaged enchanting markets,
    No more than ICC heroics, troll heroics, HoT heroics, or any other form of heroic dungeon going back to 2009. This isn't a function of LFR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    contributed to item level inflation
    Again, not exclusively a function of LFR. The upgrade-through-valor system and the addition of yet another raiding difficulty have contributed far more. Now instead of having 20 ilevel difference total between tiers they have to do a 10-ilevel difference between raiding modes in order to accommodate the valor upgrade system. With four raiding modes (of which LFR is only one) that becomes a minimum 40 ilevel difference between tiers. Don't pin that on LFR. Blizzard could have kept their valor system intact and then you'd only need single digit ilevel differences between raiding modes and differences in the teens between tiers, but then that made valor quickly become obsolete for the hard core raiders, and they couldn't let their pet players miss out on rewards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    replaced other forms of casual content that some may enjoy on their alts
    That was a choice Blizzard made to focus on raiding as the end-all-be-all of the end game. LFR is the unfortunate side effect of that. I can sympathize with "Give us heroic dungeons instead of LFR," but most of the arguments today are along the lines of, "We don't need LFR any more because we have Flex now."

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    taken a spot in gear progression
    Non-raiders deserve some form of gear progression too in order to keep the game interesting. In the past this was done via heroic dungeons, valor points, and craftable items, but Blizzard decided that raiding should be the beginning and end of gear progression. Killing LFR isn't going to resolve that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    and most of all damaged the lat tenements of server community or pug community an just contributes to more of the issues caused by lack of accountability within the game.
    The community has always been toxic to some extent and always will be. The degree of toxicity in LFR is vastly exaggerated. To be honest I see more toxicity on these threads than I actually see in LFR.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  16. #416
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It takes time to beta test LFR to make sure it is Facebook enough, then LFR is priority for hot fixes after the patch. LFR has also damaged enchanting markets, contributed to item level inflation, replaced other forms of casual content that some may enjoy on their alts, taken a spot in gear progression, and most of all damaged the lat tenements of server community or pug community an just contributes to more of the issues caused by lack of accountability within the game.
    Alternately, raids haven't been getting nerfed to any great degree while they're current tier which was the previous mechanism to encourage more people to raid. I'll bet you miss that. Right? Thought not.

    Enchanting? Come on.

    And I'm always amused by the argument that Raid Finder ruined the community. Something is always ruining the community. This is just the latest in a long, long list. People who post angry rants in which they dismiss bad players by insulting them and then turn around and bleat about how the community has gotten so terrible are so lacking in self-awareness that there's practically nothing one can say. You've been busy labeling people as 'shitters' and other things starting with a post on the first page of this thread and now you're complaining about how Raid Finder has damaged community? If I take your attitude here as an example of how you treat people in game, you get exactly the community you and others like you deserve.
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  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    And I'm always amused by the argument that Raid Finder ruined the community. Something is always ruining the community. This is just the latest in a long, long list. People who post angry rants in which they dismiss bad players by insulting them and then turn around and bleat about how the community has gotten so terrible are so lacking in self-awareness that there's practically nothing one can say. You've been busy labeling people as 'shitters' and other things starting with a post on the first page of this thread and now you're complaining about how Raid Finder has damaged community? If I take your attitude here as an example of how you treat people in game, you get exactly the community you and others like you deserve.
    Agreed, this is always the most hilarious thing to see.

    Sure I agree the community isn't what it once was, but when people go around acting like they're better than people and insulting then shout at the community going bad it's funny the complete hypocrisy present for everybody to see.

    I'm willing to bet large portions of these people abusing others and then claiming the community is bad just miss people saying "cool mount" or "where'd you get that title/item?".

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Prestige is all about respect since there's none without it. And whether or not you personally feel respected in game should be more of a social function of your guild than a reflection of how you believe others should feel about you.

    People are prone to take their own self-satisfaction and project it onto others and they're free to do that but trust me in this: Most people outside of a tight social circle could not care less about your gear, your accomplishments or anything else that you've done. The only time they notice you is when you park on the mailboxes in front of the AH and then it's only to be annoyed. The only thing interesting about the attitude displayed by some raiders encapsulated in belief in their own specialness is that it exists at all.

    All the rest of us have our own game to play be it solo or within our own circle of friends, family and guildmates. We don't standing around in our free time wishing there was someone around that we could hero-worship. The measure of a person's worth is something much greater than whether or not they play video games well. Most of us know that. Those that don't will figure it out at some point. It's shallow, unimportant and self-deluded. Blizzard took nothing away from you when they added greater access to raiding to the game.

    TL : DR - Nobody outside your friends and guild owes you anything for your game competence. Stop acting like someone does.
    So you're telling me that when you group with someone (for flex lets say) that is equiped out in heroic warforged gear that you don't ooh and awe just a little bit?

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    So you're telling me that when you group with someone (for flex lets say) that is equiped out in heroic warforged gear that you don't ooh and awe just a little bit?
    I can't speak for MoanaLisa, but as for me, I honestly don't. If I feel anything it's anticipation that this person will contribute positively to the current run because chances are that they know what they're doing (even though that's not always a guarantee). Beyond that I could care less if they're wearing heroic warforged or greens from the MoP starter vendors. If they are nice and exhibit a positive attitude throughout the raid I'm happy to group with them.

    As for my opinion of them outside of the game, gear has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    off topic but can you people sound less like assholes for once?

    back on topic
    1. define zero accountability.
    2. que times are crap because of dps and healers treating tanks like crap.

    LFR is mostly a community issue because the community created it. blizzard cant find that, the community has to.
    People treat everyone like shit in lfr, it's true if you have no idea and don't ask what to do or continue to not listen to others as a tank then your going to have issues.

    I have never been in a lfr where a tank didn't know the fight , asked what to do and was flamed for it. 100% of my groups are happy that someone who didnt know asked rather than wiping the raid.

    The single MAJOR factor we wait on tanks is purely because there are less of them, raids for the most part require 2-3 out of a 10 man / 25 man raid. So its natural that there are less.

    With accountability the vote kick system needs to be fixed. I had a hunter who spent the whole time trolling but couldn't be kicked due to the fact he kept us in combat 100% of the time. But in the end LFR is balanced around the fact its a qued system, there is no RL or vent so you can't expect it to have any mechanics.

    But i think groups tend to get worse over the course of the raid being out for a while as there are only so many alts getting legendary mats and as the more advance player base has no need for lfr loot as they move on to flex,normals / heroics you are left with the lfr only players with some alts.

    Compared to near the release window of SoO where mains would run for a while if they got shafted with 4pc/ trinkets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I can't speak for MoanaLisa, but as for me, I honestly don't. If I feel anything it's anticipation that this person will contribute positively to the current run because chances are that they know what they're doing (even though that's not always a guarantee). Beyond that I could care less if they're wearing heroic warforged or greens from the MoP starter vendors. If they are nice and exhibit a positive attitude throughout the raid I'm happy to group with them.

    As for my opinion of them outside of the game, gear has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
    Its a interesting topic, if i see someone in decked out heroic gear AND playing like a god then i respect them. As someone who raids at 9/14h which is nothing special if im in a flex or if we pug someone for main raid who is decked out and playing very well who has killed bosses we havn't then like i said i do respect that skill it took it get those bosses down as i know first had what they went through.

    All context i guess but i 100% agree that the days of being parked in town on my dreadsteed and players constantly being in awe or seeing that full t6 warrior and /drooling are over but i think performance and dedication are still respected, you just can't thrust that in people's faces in town.

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