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  1. #421
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    So you're telling me that when you group with someone (for flex lets say) that is equiped out in heroic warforged gear that you don't ooh and awe just a little bit?
    Not really but I PM'd you a full reply since it was a bit long and completely off-topic. It's interesting though. Transmogrification has diluted if not killed entirely that whole business in any case. This should be in another thread though .

    EDIT: Exoblade has it right, I'll start admiring them after I play with them a bit and it will be for that--Raid Finder or anywhere else--that they get the admiration and respect.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-12-20 at 07:45 PM.
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  2. #422
    First of all: I personally hate LFR. I am a tank and I hate it. I feel kind of forced to do it though, just because I want the set for transmog. Or to help people gear so they can raid flex without the need to go ToT or waiting for weeks to get enough valor points.

    Most of my fellow guild members do LFR weekly on at least 1 char. And I don’t know a single one who really enjoys it. Just because people run it doesn’t mean they enjoy it – some need to do it to catch up to run flex or normal modes.

    If they didn’t make the catchup that ridiculous this patch I’d bet most of my guild members would avoid it:
    Firelands (2nd tier that expansion): 378, Dragonsoul Dungeons 378, too. In addition: valor points were used to buy last tier items.
    Trial of the Crusader (3rd tier that expansion): 232 Icecrown Dungeons 232, too. In addition: valor points were used to buy last tier t-set and items.

    MoP: Timeless Isle: 496 same ilvl as first tier that expansion - with random stats and no weapon and rare chance of getting a burden to upgrade it with possible useless stats. Valor for upgrading only…

    If you want to see Garrosh on Normal or even Flex and had a break or were a bit slacking or didn’t manage to raid in a raiding guild prior to 5.4 you have no real chance to get there without LFR.
    There are hardly any tot raids around. There are no valor upgrades available. And all you can get is first tier drops off the isle. “catch up” to what? You can’t even enter LFR with the timeless isle only.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    So you're telling me that when you group with someone (for flex lets say) that is equiped out in heroic warforged gear that you don't ooh and awe just a little bit?
    Wouldn't even notice, I'd only inspect them if it's particularly attractive and I think it'd make a good mog set. If the Heroic Warforged set is ugly looking, I'll actually look down on them for having poor fashion sense.

    Stats mean nothing. Just take the better gear if you get it then don't think about it again till more gear drops.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    Wouldn't even notice, I'd only inspect them if it's particularly attractive and I think it'd make a good mog set. If the Heroic Warforged set is ugly looking, I'll actually look down on them for having poor fashion sense.

    Stats mean nothing. Just take the better gear if you get it then don't think about it again till more gear drops.
    You can pretty much tell gear level by looking at health levels. If somone is abnormally high I will take a look. Also I care more about stats, heck I havn't switched from my challenge mode tmog since I got it. Nothing looks as good imo.

    --------

    For me its fun when I can heal 250k per second and have people look at the meters and go, "Holy shit, how do you do that?"
    Last edited by cabyio; 2013-12-20 at 08:34 PM.

  5. #425
    Epic! Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago View Post
    Nothing personal, but I'll never step into LFR to be treated like shit and/or be kicked for the most ridiculous reasons.

    Sorry, but I don't see why LFR is still in game with Flex being a casual fun way to raid.

    While I personally hate LFR as much as you do, Flex is a far cry from being considered "casual" by any means. On my server, unless you are in a guild the requirements for joining a Flex raid are ridiculous. Even with Oqueue it's a pain to get a group going. I hope Blizzards new group coordinator system does a better job than Oqueue because presently it's very difficult to do a Flex with an alt or after Wednesday.


    As for LFR, from the perspective of a Healer/DPS/Tank (occasionally) I can't stand the thing. Unless I LFR right after restart I can't get a decent group to steamroll through the bosses. SoO has mechanics that fly right over the heads of many of the people who play LFR. I don't know how many times I've raged quit because we wiped on trash or really easy bosses, just because the majority doesn't understand or want to follow mechanics. Since I know Blizz prefers using LFR as the new catch-up/casual system they aren't going to get rid of it. So one suggestion would be to buff the determination buff by a lot more and apply it when ever there's a wipe. Even if it's trash; because people are never going to pay attention to mechanics or actually try to play their role properly in LFR. Honestly best case scenario is that Blizzard kills LFR and goes back to casual 5-man for catch-up gearing up. Making Flex the new LFR but with a little accountability for players.
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  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    For me its fun when I can heal 250k per second and have people look at the meters and go, "Holy shit, how do you do that?"
    If you're having to heal 250K per second there's either something wrong or you're solo healing. I've only ever broken 200k HPS in LFR because the tanks were failing hard, and that was in 520 gear. I understand feeling proud of your abilities, but gear is only partially responsible for that. I'm sure that having a HPS that high will get you invited back to groups often (provided it's not coming at the expense of obeying actual mechanics), but it's not going to get you "prestige" in real life.

    Ultimately, unless they actually go through with the item squish in WoD this time around, 250K will be laughably low next expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    While I personally hate LFR as much as you do, Flex is a far cry from being considered "casual" by any means. On my server, unless you are in a guild the requirements for joining a Flex raid are ridiculous. Even with Oqueue it's a pain to get a group going. I hope Blizzards new group coordinator system does a better job than Oqueue because presently it's very difficult to do a Flex with an alt or after Wednesday.


    As for LFR, from the perspective of a Healer/DPS/Tank (occasionally) I can't stand the thing. Unless I LFR right after restart I can't get a decent group to steamroll through the bosses. SoO has mechanics that fly right over the heads of many of the people who play LFR. I don't know how many times I've raged quit because we wiped on trash or really easy bosses, just because the majority doesn't understand or want to follow mechanics. Since I know Blizz prefers using LFR as the new catch-up/casual system they aren't going to get rid of it. So one suggestion would be to buff the determination buff by a lot more and apply it when ever there's a wipe. Even if it's trash; because people are never going to pay attention to mechanics or actually try to play their role properly in LFR. Honestly best case scenario is that Blizzard kills LFR and goes back to casual 5-man for catch-up gearing up. Making Flex the new LFR but with a little accountability for players.
    Pst. You can join your own group. Oh no how awful it is that you should be in a guild! Damn those creators trying to push guild interaction and all that.

    If Blizzards group making DOESN'T let you have requirements then it will fail horribly. I happen to like my Wing 4 heirloom farm runs and I'm not interested in inviting and kicking people because I cant demand AoTC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    If you're having to heal 250K per second there's either something wrong or you're solo healing. I've only ever broken 200k HPS in LFR because the tanks were failing hard, and that was in 520 gear. I understand feeling proud of your abilities, but gear is only partially responsible for that. I'm sure that having a HPS that high will get you invited back to groups often (provided it's not coming at the expense of obeying actual mechanics), but it's not going to get you "prestige" in real life.

    Ultimately, unless they actually go through with the item squish in WoD this time around, 250K will be laughably low next expansion.
    You really don't know anything about the new expansion do you? First you said that we would be having 3 difficulties next expansion and now you don't know about the item squish.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    I don't know how many times I've raged quit because we wiped on trash or really easy bosses, just because the majority doesn't understand or want to follow mechanics.
    Rage quitting isn't going to help anyone understand or follow mechanics. A wipe is the best teacher of all. Players are much more inclined to listen to advice after a wipe. No one wants to repeat the wipe again.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Rage quitting isn't going to help anyone understand or follow mechanics. A wipe is the best teacher of all. Players are much more inclined to listen to advice after a wipe. No one wants to repeat the wipe again.
    If only there wasn't a buff for every wipe people could also learn bosses. But wait, that would mean getting better.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    You really don't know anything about the new expansion do you? First you said that we would be having 3 difficulties next expansion and now you don't know about the item squish.
    You do realize that the expansion doesn't even have a release date, right? The item squish was supposed to come this expansion, but it didn't happen. They may say there's a squish next expansion, but until that happens, it's still just speculation even from Blizzard. You keep talking about the new expansion in the present tense as if it's already out. When it comes out then you can make comments about my ignorance, but until then you know as much about it as I do, even if I don't know anything about it. This is why I qualified my statement with "unless they actually go through with the item squish."
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  11. #431
    Epic! Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Rage quitting isn't going to help anyone understand or follow mechanics. A wipe is the best teacher of all. Players are much more inclined to listen to advice after a wipe. No one wants to repeat the wipe again.

    I don't mean I rage quit after 1 wipe, I'm talking continuous failure even after the mechanics have been pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Pst. You can join your own group. Oh no how awful it is that you should be in a guild! Damn those creators trying to push guild interaction and all that.

    If Blizzards group making DOESN'T let you have requirements then it will fail horribly. I happen to like my Wing 4 heirloom farm runs and I'm not interested in inviting and kicking people because I cant demand AoTC.
    First off I didn't say I wasn't in a guild, second I know that I can make my own group that doesn't change the fact that If I try to run this on an alt it's very very difficult if guild isn't raiding. Trying to pug a Flex with an alt that has 530ish gear on my server is very difficult everyone wants 540+. I'm not talking about wing 4 either, just for Flex 1 and 2. It's not impossible to Flex, but it's far from casual imo.
    Last edited by Fullmetal89; 2013-12-20 at 08:51 PM.
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  12. #432
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    For me its fun when I can heal 250k per second and have people look at the meters and go, "Holy shit, how do you do that?"
    That I would notice. And that's what I respect in a player, how well they use the stuff they have.
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  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Alternately, raids haven't been getting nerfed to any great degree while they're current tier which was the previous mechanism to encourage more people to raid. I'll bet you miss that. Right? Thought not.

    Enchanting? Come on.

    And I'm always amused by the argument that Raid Finder ruined the community. Something is always ruining the community. This is just the latest in a long, long list. People who post angry rants in which they dismiss bad players by insulting them and then turn around and bleat about how the community has gotten so terrible are so lacking in self-awareness that there's practically nothing one can say. You've been busy labeling people as 'shitters' and other things starting with a post on the first page of this thread and now you're complaining about how Raid Finder has damaged community? If I take your attitude here as an example of how you treat people in game, you get exactly the community you and others like you deserve.
    I know that raids are getting nerfed. But trying to get a ToT run off the ground instead of doing LFR is difficult, ToT is still significantly harder than LFR, and the gear is still sub-LFR. Sometimes there are ToT groups, but very rarely, and most are mount farm groups looking for high level players.

    The comment about enchanting is just saying that it does impact me, despite avoiding it like the plague. Now Timeless Isle is just as bad, same as other catchup heroics we have seen in the past, but LFR does offer the crafting pieces from previous patches, although that is more crafting than enchanting, which is why in 5.2 normal mode blood spirits were dirt cheap for the 496 gear they could craft. If we didn't have LFR, at least part of the expansion the enchanting market would be different, especially at the start when dungeons are mostly blue drops.

    I'm cynical, sue me. A description of their skill is no reflection of the community. Somebody playing like crap is playing like crap. The fact remains that when you have no need to group up, talk to others at all or even join a guild/pug and still complete the entire game in an MMO, there is a problem. LFG was bad but you still needed to work with others for raiding. Guilds are just for perks, not playing with others, you can down every boss in the game without typing in chat a single time. That is absolutely crushing the community.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    I don't mean I rage quit after 1 wipe, I'm talking continuous failure even after the mechanics have been pointed out.



    First off I didn't say I wasn't in a guild, second I know that I can make my own group that doesn't change the fact that If I try to run this on an alt it's very very difficult if guild isn't raiding. Trying to pug a Flex with an alt that has 530ish gear on my server is very difficult everyone wants 540+. I'm not talking about wing 4 either, just for Flex 1 and 2. It's not impossible to Flex, but it's far from casual imo.
    It is completely casual because 540 is a casual item level right now.

    Legendary cloak+Ordos+Timeless+LFR is more than enough to get into 540, and all of that is casual content. And again, the 540 groups are not looking for progression, they have done their progression they are looking to farm. Don't join a farming group if you need to do progression. The problem since the beginning of the game is new players want to join groups instead of joining other new players and doing their own progression.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You do realize that the expansion doesn't even have a release date, right? The item squish was supposed to come this expansion, but it didn't happen. They may say there's a squish next expansion, but until that happens, it's still just speculation even from Blizzard. You keep talking about the new expansion in the present tense as if it's already out. When it comes out then you can make comments about my ignorance, but until then you know as much about it as I do, even if I don't know anything about it. This is why I qualified my statement with "unless they actually go through with the item squish."
    No there IS a squish next expansion they have already announced it and it was working at Blizzcon. They were looking at having a squish this expansion but they never promised anything. Its no longer something that is being discussed in meetings, it is already implemented.

    Release dates come out before game information right?

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The fact remains that when you have no need to group up, talk to others at all or even join a guild/pug and still complete the entire game in an MMO, there is a problem.
    You still have to group up to run LFR. The difference is that you're grouping up with random people. You still have to talk to others to win fights in LFR. The difference is that you have to speak to strangers. Why is it so bad that you can actually achieve limited success in a MMO by interacting with strangers? Where is the rule requiring you to play with the same 25 people week in and week out to "properly" play a MMO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    That is absolutely crushing the community.
    No it's not. What's crushing the community is players who refuse to politely interact with strangers who may or may not be encountering content for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It is completely casual because 540 is a casual item level right now.
    Your definition of casual differs from mine. 528 is casual. 540 is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Legendary cloak+Ordos+Timeless+LFR is more than enough to get into 540
    If you get extremely lucky with the Ordos kills, and those don't even begin until you've gotten the cloak. Also, casual players are going to spend an awfully long time grinding for that cloak. 10 sigils of power + 10 sigils of wisdom + loot the sha of fear + prince rep to exalted + 2 pvp battle ground victories + 3000 VP grind + commander blood hilt + 20 secrets of the empire + 40 trillium + lei shen + solo quest + nalak + 12 titan rune stones + 4 celestials is not something that is casually done over a couple of weeks. Once you've gotten the cloak, even assuming you're fully geared in LFR you have (15 * 528 + 602) / 16 = 532 ilevel. To get that up to
    540 you'll need to add a total of 118 ilevels to your gear. You can get up to 14 ilevels from upgrading so that's max upgrades on nine pieces of gear, or 4500 valor points. Yes, it is feasible to get 540 without running flex, but the process is far from casual.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Release dates come out before game information right?
    Game information is unreliable until the release. The Adventures of Thrall was working and implemented but it was never released. Just because you saw it working and implemented at Blizzcon doesn't mean it will be in the final product. I've been following Blizzard games long enough (since 1995) to know that just because they say it will be one way doesn't mean it will be so.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    I'm willing to bet large portions of these people abusing others and then claiming the community is bad just miss people saying "cool mount"
    Bwahahaha exactly.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    If you're having to heal 250K per second there's either something wrong or you're solo healing. I've only ever broken 200k HPS in LFR because the tanks were failing hard, and that was in 520 gear. I understand feeling proud of your abilities, but gear is only partially responsible for that. I'm sure that having a HPS that high will get you invited back to groups often (provided it's not coming at the expense of obeying actual mechanics), but it's not going to get you "prestige" in real life.

    Ultimately, unless they actually go through with the item squish in WoD this time around, 250K will be laughably low next expansion.
    The 250k was in normal. And I agree, I'm not going to go around trying to get a job because "I can heal in wow so you should hire me!". Prestige is usually confined within the activity it is for (or to spectators of that activity). Someone could be a world champion dune buggy racer and I could give half a shit, cuz I don't care about dune buggy racing. I don't think any wow player expects any kind of prestige outside the wow community.

    I know its not all gear, but gear does help/limit your skill. I think they will go though with the stat squish, so we will probably be back to healing 20k/sec or something like that.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post

    Game information is unreliable until the release. The Adventures of Thrall was working and implemented but it was never released. Just because you saw it working and implemented at Blizzcon doesn't mean it will be in the final product. I've been following Blizzard games long enough (since 1995) to know that just because they say it will be one way doesn't mean it will be so.
    Gear squish is coming, even if it breaks the game in various places. The reason Garrosh needs 3 health pools is because he'd have more health than the maximum the games engine can support otherwise.
    They need to REALLY nerf peoples DPS, or bosses will need to have 20 health pools by the end of the xpac.

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It is completely casual because 540 is a casual item level right now.
    Sure, that's an item level that a "casual" player would have if she has a legendary cape and has mostly filled every other slot with upgraded SoO LFR gear.

    Although I'm not sure how casual that is.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Beyond that I could care less if they're wearing heroic warforged or greens from the MoP starter vendors. If they are nice and exhibit a positive attitude throughout the raid I'm happy to group with them.
    Even if they are doing 20k dps?

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Even if they are doing 20k dps?
    If the boss died I don't care about getting rid of "bads" except for the ones that are AFK not even keeping up with the group as it moves along. Those are probably the heroic raiders who are "too good" for LFR but who are "forced" to do it anyway for some reason.

    My usual reaction to someone posting recount and saying "OK kick XXX he did 23k" is to vote to kick the guy posting the recount, and I am usually not the first person to do it.

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