Tank failures are seldom related to ilevel. Admittedly they are sometimes, but very rarely. More often than not the problem is a tank failing to taunt at the appropriate number of stacks or a tank failing to turn the boss from the raid at the appropriate time or even an overconfident tank who thinks he should pull the entire room because he managed to survive the pull when he ran flex with 24 other people in 560+ gear.
But if no one ever offers to help them they will just keep doing what they are doing (sucking) forever. If I was doing something completely the wrong way and sucking at it, I would want someone to at least point it out so I know.
I would offer advice because I would want advice offered to me.
First off, what does that even mean? I am serious, I am actually confused by the way that is worded. Second, offering advice is never a bad thing unless you are a jerk about it, which I am not. People need to learn somehow, Proving Grounds didn't do it, and no one else is doing it, so why doesn't the nice DPS who pulls 430k try and help some people out? Once again: This isn't a feelings simulator its a video game, if a person cannot handle being told they are doing something wrong, then just quit.
i completely agree.... long time tank and now I DPS some just b.c. of how tanking is. I hate "active" mitigation, and tank dps numbers. I liked it when my focus on was generating threat, grabbing adds, boss positioning, and watching out for the big hits. Heck if you had a threat lead you could auto attack and focus on other things if needed, and help direct the raid but now your expected to put up decent numbers, and use some CD's almost every time they are up.
It doesn't really work any of those ways.
There is no "pausing" or "holding your place." Blizzard explains the feature that way but it doesn't/can't possibly work that way. Blizzard uses the time spent while inside content as a bonus to artificially advance players who have queued for multiple instances.
Blizzard's matchmaking/queuing system is really quite complex and I think pretty versatile and overall amazing. It's something I think a fair bit about. It is elegant in that they have managed to make it look like something that players can understand and relate to, while in reality the implementation is necessarily something vastly more different and complex and counterintuitive.
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You would ask for advice from a stranger if you wanted it.
No one wants advice from strangers. Ever.
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Unsolicited advice from a stranger is always unwelcome. There just aren't any exceptions to this. Should you experience exceptions anyway, they are exceptions, not some kind of new social rule that applies only to video games.
You have a valid point there. I'm not saying you are wrong however I disagree with your viewpoint to a certain degree.
The point I agree to is that to be honest as soon as you are Flex geared or raiding flex(Not even talking about further difficulty levels), there is really nothing to do in LFR. The gear drops are pretty much useless besides disenchanting them,valor is easily gained elsewhere,you probably already have the legendary quest done long ago from progressing Normals,HC so that's not an issue either. There really is no appeal to run an raid difficulty that people at your gear level can easily 10 man.
However the point where I disagree is that you shouldn't allow certain people in LFR. As bad as they may be the feature is there right for that reason. The only thing that has changed is the people complaining about never raiding because they don't get invited because they are too "low" to people complaining about paired with players too "low". And that is something you just can't evade or fix. Because from business viewpoint it would be a bad decision by Blizzard to lock out certain people out from a feature otherwise accessible by all just because they are bluntly saying unmotivated,uneducated,experience lacking and with unpleasant personalities. So they offer them LFR and let people who are more raid oriented move on to other difficulties. It's like a sieve to sort out those who are actually interested in serious raiding and those who aren't.
What I do not get in the end is why do you even want to return to same raid but with greatly lower difficulty settings that you have finished/are progressing now and expect to receive a significant motivation from Blizzard to do so.
Shuffling around gear requirements wont make the role as whole more enjoying to play. I think they did go towards the right way with the entire active mitigation thing but still people don't play tanks not because of item requirement but how you have to play as a tank.
Tracking them would be pointless as well. Because even a moderately Flex geared character currently can ignore about 80% of mechanics in LFR purely because his equipment scaling makes irrelevant the punishment received for ignoring them.
I won't. It's just a matter of personal opinion. However I do agree that making tank into DPS in disguise is the wrong way to go. Tanking should actually feel like you know... tanking. However the DPS part in my argument was that sadly you need DPS to enjoy the rest of content.It's discouraging to do questing,farming,rep grinding etc. as a healer or tank if your specialization makes it terribly slower and sometimes even impossible unless overgeared compared to DPS class.
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As they say never say never. People are different and mainly the whole argument in this thread is about it. There are those who don't mind being pointed out and there are those who do. It doesn't mean you should be afraid to ever tell people they are not doing what they should. Quite otherwise. You tell them that they are wrong and afterwards they can handle their own feelings however they want. The problems start when people start throwing around/replying to personal insults.
Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor
The problem is that it's difficult to tell with someone who is being 'sub-optimal' as opposed to outright bad, AFK or whatever. Sub-optimal is the sort of thing you sort out with a log most times. AFKers don't need advice, they need to be kicked. And if someone is simply not doing well but is obviously trying it's very difficult to do anything about that right then unless you have 20 minutes down time waiting for a tank or something.
I used to try and help people but I no longer really do. People have their defenses up from the get-go and are usually unwilling to listen to anything that's unsolicited. If someone asks that's different but even then if they ask in instance chat before you can say anything there's usually a volley of "Don't suck" advice which is pointless and any chance one had to do something positive is usually lost. Trying to help someone you're never going to see again in the Raid Finder environment which is either pretty quiet and moving along or entirely messed up and bogged down is just a problem. Those that still make the attempt have my respect but I'm not going to be joining them any time soon.
I understand that help sometimes happens but I think it rare and the exception rather than the rule for all of the above reasons as well as a dozen others I can think of.
As often as not it's impossible to distinguish the difference between telling someone they are wrong and personal insults. Despite what you wrote this is perfectly obvious and I'm quite sure you're aware of that.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-12-20 at 12:31 AM.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
For any number of reasons, some people have great trouble realizing this, because THEIR particular case is special.
"Maybe in most cases, but I'm a very polite person."
"My information is entirely accurate and that's all it is, information."
"It's essential to this group that I convey this message to you."
"You have a responsibility to all of us to listen to me."
"If you don't listen to me then you're a bad, frankly."
"You will bond with me once I share this insight with you."
"I know that you will appreciate my comments because I can see that you already look up to my experience."
"People always thank me for selflessly spending my time to improve others' gameplay."
"I understand that most people don't like advice from strangers, but I have something really useful to tell you."
But as a rule, how it works out is:
"Who are you? Did I ask for your help? No. Shut up."
Or could it be the consequences of sticking together 25 randoms potentially without any raid experience was underestimated.
LFR did not inflate requirements, players did.
The game did not decide the requirements had to be higher, it was something players dictated.
The game does not spontaneously ask for a higher ilvl than that specified in the UI.
Players do that.
I will agree the Journal has a lot of room for improvement as a previous poster stated.
If you want people to get better, then talk to them.
Shoving up gear requirements does nothing of the sort.
Achievements rarely prove anything of the capabilities of the individual.
I honestly don't mind the Active Mitigation system. It's the Vengeance system which turned us into a DPS class that ruined it for me.
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Which is actually the very reason they invented and implemented Dual-specialization. Besides that, they can still give tanks good damage without it being a necessary part of raiding they just don't want to right now.
Harder difficulties only suffered diminished prestige because of LFR (though I'm sure that did indirectly make the whole raiding scene suffer). My point was, that LFR does not justify raiding as the end game or as the biggest development resource hogger, if for 95% it's merely a quick afk'ed tourist mode and at the same time it diminishes the prestige of the 5%, whom should be some kind of trend setters in WoW.
What is the definiton of "hard work"? Is regulary playing a sport with my friends or in some team hard work, because to get to play I have to train regularly, think of tactics and otherways I can better myself all the time, stay 100% focused on it when we are playing with set practise and game times. All the while paying some sort of fee for it all, without this fee entitling me to crap.
And if you prefer to think WoW or MMOs in general more as a world than theme park, then it's obvious that what others do effects my mentality too, and that is why "no work" and success at things of lower difficulty was not enough for the casual crowd, they wanted epics and they wanted to kill raid bosses just because someone else was getting them and doing it, even though it did not affect them at all. You have to remember that in BC model for example, the heroics were suppose to be end game for most, and a lot of resources were used on them while they were totally useless for the raiders, so the "my 15 bucks were not used to design things that I play" argument has worked both ways. And dont get me even started on PvP'ers who are also a major crowd for this game.
So LFR is bad for the prestige of raiding, hurting prestige of raiding is bad for the game, but having raiding as the only end game is just dumb and lazy.
What are you talking about? Of course it can work that way. Each LFR has three queues: Tank, Heals, and DPS. Each position in the queues has two states: Available and Paused. When someone is needed for a certain role then the next non-paused player in the queue is removed from the queue(s) for that instance and put into the instance. That player's positions in the other queues are then put into the Paused state. It's not even hard to do, let alone impossible. There's even a formal name for this concept: Priority Queue.
That would be much more complex to implement. The priority queue scheme I outlined above already factors in the time you spent inside content because your position in the queue is established at the time you queue.
If it's that complex they're doing it wrong. Have you actually looked at their source code? You talk as if you actually programmed for them or something.
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Trust me, whatever "prestige" you thought you had by virtue of completing harder difficulties was all in your mind and in the minds of a few other WoW players like you. Very few who exclusively run LFR ever associated harder difficulties with the word, "prestige." It's kind of hard to diminish what never existed to begin with. Like MoanaLisa said, "'hard work' and success at the higher difficulties should be a source of self-satisfaction." That's it. There's no prestige associated with success in WoW and there never was. If you're pursuing prestige through WoW then you're doing it wrong.