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  1. #441
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just as it's difficult to see posters whose armories show them to be competent at heroic mode raiding proud of the fact that they can AFK through Raid Finder because they need a trinket. There's plenty of bad behavior/whining on both sides. I don't approve of any of it personally.
    I for one give it my all even when I step foot in an LF"R". There is really no benefit to being one of the scrubs that goes there to be carried, specially when they are geared to where they should be the ones doing the carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post


    I thought you were in the reserves. How did you get through basic training without getting your ass kicked?

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    6', 220 lbs, three black belts, 8 years experience full contact fighting, and willing to give as good as i get.

    as to throwing down the reserve card, you must only have experience in the newer kinder army of the present. my basic training was before the "its ok to be a degenerate" movement in the military.

    my first experience with someone taking offense to me in basic the drill sergeant locked us both in a barracks bay till we "worked it out".










    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post

    That's only because most people will only run with others in 540+ gear. I guarantee that if you ran Flex with 25 random players in 510 ilevel gear you would reconsider that statement.

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    Flex was not designed to be LF"R", or else your choice in who you group with would be removed just like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    And that's why they're scaling it back to three modes in WoD. Instead of easy, normal, hard, and super-hard they're just going to have easy, normal, and super-hard.
    actually incorrect, as the the new "heroic" mode will be nothing more than normal with a new name attached to it. per blue posts.

    so there will be

    super easy
    easy
    hard

    which granted they may take the steps needed to make hard mode, or mythic super hard however they have stated repeatedly that heroic will just be a face over of normal, or in better terms a sell out to entitled players who want to wear the name "heroic raider" without having earned it, much like LF"R" only players consider themselves raiders now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    TV and music are different. They require no input from the consumer, therefore there is no measurement of comparison. Dancing on the other hand: Yes I suck ass at dancing, therefore I choose not to partake in it. If i did decide to do it, I would put my all into it and really learn how. I retain my right to make fun of dumbasses that choose to publicly do things that they suck royal ass at. If you do something that others can witness and you are not good at it you should expect some amount of ridicule.
    you cannot win an argument agains someone who is going to compare going to a dance club which is not a competitive hobby to one that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Well having 4 modes isn't helping that transition be easier. If we didn't have a ton of different modes people wouldn't need to hear through LFR to gear through Flex to get into normal do they could do heroic. ToT is barely a viable gearing path right now, which is a shame.

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    absolutely correct. if someone wanted to step up to raiding in the past they maximized their toon the best they could outside of raid and got in as a pug or in an alt run of a competent guild and got some experience then moved up through some feeder guilds until they reached their level of competence.

    there was no need for hand me down candy land raiding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I guarantee that 99% of those "dumbasses" are meeting many more members of the opposite sex than you are. Ridicule all you want, but your fear of ridicule is your problem. I know because my attitude was similar to yours in high school. Fear of looking "stupid" is a stupid reason to deprive yourself of fun. A secure, confident person isn't afraid to face a little ridicule. What's more, they don't have to ridicule others just to feel better about themselves.
    If I was busy meeting members of the opposite sex my 5'10 125 lb slovenian underwear model wife would become quite upset with me. So I will quite happily stay out of the bars and no longer come home with bruises and contusions from a tournament. I have earned my arm chair general time at WOW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic View Post
    Did you put your all into the grammar of that post? Or did you insult yourself by making mistakes? Or were you forced into doing it at gun point?

    No offense meant, just being flippant.
    A good portion of posters on this forum do tend to be from countries where English is not the first language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Not 250k. Unless we're talking pesos or Zimbabwe currency. You don't make that sort of money as an incompetent nitwit.
    Well, yes you can. But that is certainly a topic for another thread.

    What is the salary of the president?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Likeability, negotiation skills, and leadership count for far more than one's ability to dance a virtual avatar into and out of virtual fire.
    Really? Likeability? Hi guys, let me tell you a nice fire side story. Are you comfortable? Do you have enough s'mores? You know what that raid leader gets? He gets players that show up 10 minutes late then bitch that they were sat and a raid that muddles down to nothing as 24 other alpha individuals walk all over him on the way to their next guild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Because the dungeon journal was implemented for the raiders who read Icyveins right?

    The problem IS with LFR because of the fact that it is a queue based system for content meant for a group cooperating
    All insults pointed at lack of capability to comprehend simple mechanics and how to react to them, that statement hits it on the head. LF"R" is designed so that you should be able to complete it with little or no organization whatsoever. THAT is why it brings on the ire of some players who are offended by it's mere existence as a means for others to obtain nearly what they have but for no investment.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  2. #442
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm the luckiest bastard on the planet, but I've had exactly 1 horrible group in LFR. This was mostly due to 5 guildies lol-pulling shaman and the tanks refusing to follow the same strat. (One of the tanks being one of the guildies.) 8 stacks later, I was gone. The Irony here is that the organized uber-raiders (they were all 545+) were the reason it took almost 2 hours to get to Shaman. I've never had a fight go to more than three stacks outside of that. People have always followed the leader and gotten through relatively quickly. If you're constantly having problems with the community, perhaps the community isn't the problem.
    Sometimes 'Merica happens, and you just have to deal with that.

  3. #443
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Icy Veins is the Cliffs Notes for the dungeon journal. I wish that journal was as useful as Icy Veins. If every player didn't have to dig through 20 different descriptions to pick out the two or three crucial ones that they actually had any control over then it might actually have been useful. As it is you can read the dungeon journal all day, but unless you have a photographic memory and/or several fights' experience under your belt it's not going to do jack for you.

    If a raid is a logic puzzle then the dungeon journal is the series of facts that is laid out for you while Icy Veins is the filled-in logic chart. Just because you choose to memorize that logic chart up front doesn't make the person who opts to fill it in themselves a dumbass.
    Well, they incorporate ad dons that circumvent the way they intend queing to happen, they hire forum commentators to the Blue staff, who is to say that an icy-veins tab is not next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    So you're advising players to AFK on the trash between bosses in order to read the journal?
    No. Advising they read up on the four bosses they will be encountering in the wing they sat in que an hour to get in to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaltazarDZ View Post

    Which is often forgotten by those who have plenty of experience behind their belt. And here's the part why I think complainers are bad. Because they by no way try to improve the performance of the team. They do not explain the tactics (or where,who and why did wrong) in a sensible way but instead insult other people. They think that the simple fact of them attending the boss fight is all that's required from them. And what I want to say by that is....

    If you are not ready to raid in LFR with a group that most likely doesn't know what they are doing and can't be arsed to say more than "STFU Noob Tank/DPS/Healer" and simply don't have the balls to take up leadership of the group and share your experience then keep silent yourself and let other people do their best.

    .
    it is not a team activity.
    if it were a team activity I would either be prepared to explain to members of my team or bench them for not having read up before hand.

    ALL the tools you need to know the fights are in the dungeon journal. ALL of them. You need no external source in order to know if it is bad don't stand in it or if it is good do stand in it. The journal delineates these things in simple English, or I assume the language that your client is written in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post


    Not really. Blizzard is the problem because they don't sufficiently penalize individual players in an obvious manner for tunnelling Nazgrim. Instead everyone else pays for that player's failure in a manner that is not even intuitively connected to said failure. A better design for LFR would cause the player to get a stacking debuff that lowers their damage and ultimately stuns the player for thirty seconds every time the player hits him. Instead one guy beats on him and everyone else has to deal with the axes later. That's not not a "dumbass player" problem. That's a "dumbass designer" problem.
    sure. a mechanic that basically nullifies the fact that they are screwing up by removing them from play.

    have a reasonable idea to post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    indeed.. HC scenario gives 100 valor each (with the timed bonus ofc) and not counting the first(wich give even more) and each hc scenario take at max 15 min

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    then why use it as an example "LFR is so good i got 400 valor in 3hrs"
    i generally have no issue capping on a tuesday. the 1000 point cap is not well thought out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zozobra View Post
    I completely agree, but the current damage-based design of tanking just isn't fun for me.
    agree. it was great before they threw the nerf bat at us.
    why should I be able to swing the same sword, wearing the same gear and be told I cannot do relevant damage just because I am the on getting smacked on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    I can make my own group that doesn't change the fact that If I try to run this on an alt it's very very difficult if guild isn't raiding..

    B.S.

    99% of the flex raiding I did until I completely out geared flex was in groups that I either put together myself or joined, but had ZERO interaction with my guild in doing so. if I waited on my guild I would still be in nothing but the pieces I pick up from normal kills.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by BEYR View Post
    Maybe I'm the luckiest bastard on the planet, but I've had exactly 1 horrible group in LFR. This was mostly due to 5 guildies lol-pulling shaman and the tanks refusing to follow the same strat. (One of the tanks being one of the guildies.) 8 stacks later, I was gone. The Irony here is that the organized uber-raiders (they were all 545+) were the reason it took almost 2 hours to get to Shaman. I've never had a fight go to more than three stacks outside of that. People have always followed the leader and gotten through relatively quickly. If you're constantly having problems with the community, perhaps the community isn't the problem.
    The thing is, even if a run is going good I promise you, open up skada and you will see people pulling 20k dps, hell some people may not even be on the meters.

    It isn't really a problem as far as completing the instance, more the fact that people are not doing crap.

    If they were geared raiders, and 545 isnt all that good right now, then the question is why the other tank wasnt following the strat? Don't blame the raiders for insisting on their way when the other tank was doing the same thing

  5. #445
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The thing is, even if a run is going good I promise you, open up skada and you will see people pulling 20k dps, hell some people may not even be on the meters.

    It isn't really a problem as far as completing the instance, more the fact that people are not doing crap.

    If they were geared raiders, and 545 isnt all that good right now, then the question is why the other tank wasnt following the strat? Don't blame the raiders for insisting on their way when the other tank was doing the same thing
    The people who aren't doing crap will always be stuck in LFR. If that's their goal, then mission accomplished. If they want to move on to harder content, they will have to get off their ass and learn the strat. Either way, if the boss is dying in a timely manner it isn't really affecting you. And to answer your question, their start was to burn in place. Doesn't work on any level of shamans as far as I know. It became very clear by the time I left that they were just griefing the raid in the end.
    Sometimes 'Merica happens, and you just have to deal with that.

  6. #446
    This has been gone over many, many times and the ultimate conclusion is that what ails LFR is the community.

    Well, if that's truly the case as I and much of the community believes it is, then it is only the community that can fix it and that necessitates tools to fix it.

    I've advocated that Blizz can help by implementing many of the accountability tools that are in League of Legends. Plus, they are PUBLIC and the COMMUNITY votes. So, if you get bounced, it's by the community. If you post something horrible or behave badly, the community will step forward and make clear what behavior is appropriate, which is borderline and which is intolerable.

    I love tanking and have three tanks (Pally, DK and Monk) geared at least to iLvl 500. I'd spend all of my time tanking except for the community. I've been playing since Vanilla and have never experienced this level of antipathy of players...outright rage for gearing tanks during the first month, vitriol for tanks that aren't flawless in LFR (note: I'm not excusing exceptionally poor play here), etc.

    I finally just said, enough, and went with my hunter and sat 3 of my favorite toons.

    With the proper tools, the community can self-police. Unfortunately, Blizzard expects the community to self-police with rules like those that exist on Wall Street and then with little and lax enforcement and almost no punishment, we've seen the entire community suffer and the only answer from Blizz is that they refuse to allow the community a voice in fixing a problem that only they CAN fix.

    Blizz has certainly borrowed things from other devs. Now isn't the time for pride, it's the time for humility and community and reconciling ourselves to the notion that playing together means being responsible to and for one another (at least with respect to the game). WoW became strong because of the community first. For all of the horror stories, there are 10x more stories of folks being taught, nurtured and grown.

    I switched to my hunter to TRY and focus on the positive, but I'd like to spend more time on my tanks.

    That would require the community embracing a more positive attitude and I've not seen that, not even during Winter Veil, Xmas, Kwanzaa, or the early Hanukkah season...

    Maybe a Festivus celebration? I dunno, but unless the community embraces others in the community, it's like trees in the forest playing with matches... not the best plan...

  7. #447
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackeyser View Post
    I've advocated that Blizz can help by implementing many of the accountability tools that are in League of Legends. Plus, they are PUBLIC and the COMMUNITY votes. So, if you get bounced, it's by the community. If you post something horrible or behave badly, the community will step forward and make clear what behavior is appropriate, which is borderline and which is intolerable.
    While I think that you're on the right track it's not the only track and it's perfectly fair to point out that even with all of the stuff that LoL has done--stuff that I approve of--the community there is not exactly a bed of roses yet. Maybe someday.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Prestige is all about respect since there's none without it. And whether or not you personally feel respected in game should be more of a social function of your guild than a reflection of how you believe others should feel about you.

    People are prone to take their own self-satisfaction and project it onto others and they're free to do that but trust me in this: Most people outside of a tight social circle could not care less about your gear, your accomplishments or anything else that you've done. The only time they notice you is when you park on the mailboxes in front of the AH and then it's only to be annoyed. The only thing interesting about the attitude displayed by some raiders encapsulated in belief in their own specialness is that it exists at all.

    All the rest of us have our own game to play be it solo or within our own circle of friends, family and guildmates. We don't standing around in our free time wishing there was someone around that we could hero-worship. The measure of a person's worth is something much greater than whether or not they play video games well. Most of us know that. Those that don't will figure it out at some point. It's shallow, unimportant and self-deluded. Blizzard took nothing away from you when they added greater access to raiding to the game.

    TL : DR - Nobody outside your friends and guild owes you anything for your game competence. Stop acting like someone does.
    How am I acting like someone owes me something? I dont really get your point on that, sounds more like venting, but maybe thats just me. prestige is something that ultimately you have to decide for yourself, whether something has prestige or not. For example, I think there is prestige knowing how to play instrument, even though you would only play by yourself for yourself, because you know it took effort and willpower to finally master it. Sure there is some self-satisfaction if you find out that others too find prestige at things you do, because nobody is safe from ego (least of all hurt ego), but if you decide what has prestige according to others opinions, you will run in to problems when people around you change during your life. Which is why most philosophies come to a conclusion that anything worth while takes effort and commitment (even things done at leisure, like playing music). And then we arrive at the discussion about the modern day demand for instant gratification, easy pleasures and feeling of entitlement, but that is a discussion for another arena.

    And measure of one's worth in a video game is actually how well they play it. Like in a band one's worth is how well they play their instrument or make music.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    well if they removed those restrictions i could see it badly abused
    Badly abused = kicking the guy who has been on follow for 20 minutes.

    People go into lfr with 2 hours kick immunity because they have been kicked TOO MUCH.
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
    ╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    Do you have any evidence to back that up? Because while I don't have anything either (as I'm not a Blizzard employee) I can say that a lot of players LOVE flex because it allows them the ability to actually face a challenge in an environment where they weren't just randomly tossed together by some algorithim, on a time schedule that their personal taste obliges. That's what was sorely missing from LFR in 5.0, any form of actual challenne in random, queable content. Flex bridged the gap between LFR and structured/organized raiding.

    I can't think for the life of me why anyone who has the slightest grasp of mechanics of their class would elect LFR over Flex. The rewards in both actual challenge, the social experience and actual in game loot are vastly superior. I honestly can't understand why anyone who wasn't a sub-par player and lacks the desire to try and improve would opt not to do Flex over LFR. As others have stated, the time sink to que and complete an LFR is almost always much higher than for a Flex. Because people can be removed at the drop of a hat, they're much more likely to act in a positive way.

    LFR should (and I think it's headed in that direction) only serve as a content mode or environment where players can refine their rotation after practicing on a target dummy.
    LFR has the huge advantage of no organisational requirement, no need for a pre-determined time commitment.
    Something no other format can offer without considerable amount of understanding or willingness from other players.

    That is a pretty significant issue, and why LFR exists in the first place.
    The unfriendly player-created environment towards the less convenienced players is what made the feature a necessity.

    Flex is aimed at Normal Raiders, not LFR.
    Flex offers organised raiding with less of the "loose ends" that a fixed size format generates.
    It was never intended to be a replacement for or superior form of LFR.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  11. #451
    They did go on a record saying that they wish they had come up with Flex first, suggesting that LFR as we know it would not exist today if they could go back in time. I'm sure they will try to kill it with bad loots and tourist mode next expansion, make it a larger scenario, maybe have NPCs kill the bosses. One thing they could try is make working version of WAR's contribution roll, where your chance for loot increases the more you contribute (dps/healing/activity), with afk having no chance for loot.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Even if they are doing 20k dps?
    If they have a positive attitude they will accept constructive criticism when it is politely given to them and they won't be at 20K DPS for long. As far as LFR goes, I could care less what DPS they are doing because the bosses are tuned for players doing about 50K DPS while fully raid geared players do between 200K and 400K DPS. Who cares if someone's DPS is a little low? No one's asking you to bring them into your heroic raid runs. To be honest, though, I don't think I've ever seen a non-AFK player do below 30K, and even those are once every couple of weeks or so. This popular myth about LFR populated with all baddies doing 20K DPS while 5 well-geared heroes carry them through to full LFR geared glory is just that: a myth. Most players are doing 50-80K. The fully LFR-geared players do about 80-120K, and then the raid geared players do 200K+.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Geish View Post
    They did go on a record saying that they wish they had come up with Flex first, suggesting that LFR as we know it would not exist today if they could go back in time. I'm sure they will try to kill it with bad loots and tourist mode next expansion, make it a larger scenario, maybe have NPCs kill the bosses. One thing they could try is make working version of WAR's contribution roll, where your chance for loot increases the more you contribute (dps/healing/activity), with afk having no chance for loot.
    Accurate and fair measurement of performance is a messy business, and not something I ever want placed in the hands of an automated system.

    Flex being added to all the future modes aside from Mythic is proof that flex while being an incredibly useful addition, is not some alternative or replacement for LFR but is meant to solve the issue of a fixed-size roster, and that only.

    LFR is staying, as has been stated pretty clearly during Blizzcon and since.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-12-21 at 04:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  14. #454
    Honestly my favorite part about LFR is blending in with the bad crowd. You can get them to be your personally army if done right. Pretending to play poorly and just not paying attention in there has been fun to say the least. If anyone says anything to you use the army!

  15. #455
    Nobody is saying that Flex is not staying (can't put the milk back after it's been spilled), but that Blizzard wish they had never implemented LFR as we know it. And yes, Blizzard does hope that Flex (dont get caught in semantics, we all know it means the current Flex difficulty) could still replace LFR as casual raiding and that LFR will be changed for tourist mode where you can check the art and lore scenes (might make it even a solo scenario with NPCs killing the bosses with or without your help).
    Last edited by Geish; 2013-12-21 at 05:12 PM.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    you must only have experience in the newer kinder army of the present. my basic training was before the "its ok to be a degenerate" movement in the military.
    I left active duty 21 years ago, so I'm afraid to ask how old you are if you consider that "the present."

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    my first experience with someone taking offense to me in basic the drill sergeant locked us both in a barracks bay till we "worked it out".
    The fact that you're 6' and 200 lbs. has worked in your favor. When I was an E-2 I knew an E-5 and an E-6 with your attitude. One day they happened to clash and before I knew it I outranked them. It's only a matter of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    which granted they may take the steps needed to make hard mode, or mythic super hard however they have stated repeatedly that heroic will just be a face over of normal, or in better terms a sell out to entitled players who want to wear the name "heroic raider" without having earned it, much like LF"R" only players consider themselves raiders now.
    Sorry, but I still have to laugh at the thought of "earning" a title in a video game. If you want my respect go earn a ranger tab. Those guys are far more worthy of respect than any raider ever will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    you cannot win an argument agains someone who is going to compare going to a dance club which is not a competitive hobby to one that is.
    I hate to break it to you, but raiding isn't a competitive hobby either. There are some players who choose to make a competition of raiding, just like there are dancers who choose to organize and/or enter dance competitions. Maybe that's the misconception you're under here. Outside of the race for world-first no one gives a crap about how quickly your guild killed Heroic Garrosh.

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    if someone wanted to step up to raiding in the past they maximized their toon the best they could outside of raid and got in as a pug or in an alt run of a competent guild and got some experience then moved up through some feeder guilds until they reached their level of competence.
    there was no need for hand me down candy land raiding.
    Except very few wanted to "step up to raiding in the past" because there were plenty of better things to do in the game. Unfortunately Blizzard decided to scrap all those other activities in order to focus more on making raids. That's why they had to make a "candyland" version of raiding: so that they could continue to collect subscription fees from players with better uses for their time. You still get your heroic raid, so what's the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    If I was busy meeting members of the opposite sex my 5'10 125 lb slovenian underwear model wife would become quite upset with me.
    I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Cabyio, who was making a ridiculous claim that if you can't do something well you might as well not even try it at all. My point was that he was depriving himself of opportunities.

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Really? Likeability? Hi guys, let me tell you a nice fire side story. Are you comfortable? Do you have enough s'mores? You know what that raid leader gets?
    You neglected to observe that I was talking about real life, not a game. Does your WoW raiding guild give out salaries? Does your raid leader make 250K a year for raiding?

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    He gets players that show up 10 minutes late then bitch that they were sat and a raid that muddles down to nothing as 24 other alpha individuals walk all over him on the way to their next guild.
    You come off as an overgrown bully who is well on his way to pissing off the wrong person. I hope you reform your ways before that happens.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-12-21 at 05:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  17. #457
    Brewmaster MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    I don't see how that would be fair to all players. I only play tanks, plus this also favors players with multiple characters. I only care about my main. It's fine in the state it's in. LFR is not intended for the high ilvl, high skilled elitist pricks that complain about it.

    Nothing can hold me back!

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    I don't see how that would be fair to all players. I only play tanks, plus this also favors players with multiple characters. I only care about my main. It's fine in the state it's in. LFR is not intended for the high ilvl, high skilled elitist pricks that complain about it.
    Was this aimed at my suggestion to make it solo scenario? I don't see how that would differ from role to role. If you want to tank/dps/heal you can, but you don't have to. If they can make tools to set up decent scripts for AI that could even work as fight manual, just watch how the NPCs react to different things and you should have some kind of idea what to do if you go to a real raid.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Accurate and fair measurement of performance is a messy business, and not something I ever want placed in the hands of an automated system.

    Flex being added to all the future modes aside from Mythic is proof that flex while being an incredibly useful addition, is not some alternative or replacement for LFR but is meant to solve the issue of a fixed-size roster, and that only.

    LFR is staying, as has been stated pretty clearly during Blizzcon and since.
    Ofc its staying. As it should. But its going to be changed. They've stated it's not compelling gameplay to be the only source of endgame content (people who don't like raid format forced into it ATM) and they don't think its compelling for anyone, or just a small niche which LFR isn't designed for, to be doing it for weeks and months.

    GC tweet: Our current thought is that LFR is a way to see the content and maybe some gear but not a great way to spend weeks or months.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    While I think that you're on the right track it's not the only track and it's perfectly fair to point out that even with all of the stuff that LoL has done--stuff that I approve of--the community there is not exactly a bed of roses yet. Maybe someday.
    Oh, I'm under no illusion that the LoL community is perfect. Far from it. However, unlike the WoW community, the one thing it is far more is...accountable.

    And that's the point. LoL players feel accountable to other players. In part it's because of the reporting system, but beyond that it's become more than that. The more I talk to LoL players (I can't pvp due to hand tremors so LoL isn't for me), the more they have articulated that they really do care about "showing up" because of varying levels of "fairness" or "duty" to their fellow players.

    Whether that be altruism or self-interest, the net effect is that there is accountability to fellow players that grows synergy and good feelings toward other players.

    I firmly believe that WoW players would prefer to enjoy both WoW more and the community more. And the feedback from the LoL community is that those reporting tools, however imperfect, are a good start toward building that community. They not only speak to what is dysfunctional, but JUST AS IMPORTANT, they also shed much needed light on what is and who are functional in the community.

    Thus rather than these continued wood chipper threads where the community is shredded and mulched, we need mechanisms, incentives and reminders about why it's better to come together and be part of a community and contribute to that community.

    Addition by addition. Simple, but sometimes simple works...

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