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  1. #1
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Nerf Healers Thread!

    Enough is enough. A healer should not be able to completely out heal a dps damage using only instants. A healer should have to cast! A healer should have to use their CC to survive. A healer should not have burst Cooldowns better then most dps. This game has turned to garbage and healers are the number 1 cause. Healers should die 1v1 to a dps if the healer plays badly.

    Sustained classes don't work because healers are so overpowered. Overpowered to a point where right now Bladestorm is bad to use in 5s, high single target AOE damage is bad to use, because when you have two healers no amount of damage matters, only CC does, because healing is double triple quadruple what any dps can do. Which has caused Burst and Instant CC to be at the point where you can kill another dps in under 10s, but you have no chance at all to kill a healer without another dps and all CDs, and none of theirs.

    The bullshit lie that Healers need to be able to survive alone against a single dps or be underpowered in 3s should no longer be accepted. In TBC healers couldnt out heal 2 dps on them, nor in Wrath, and nor in Cata, but now they can and if anyone questions it they bring up that lie. Healers don't need to be invincible 1v1 to be viable in 3s, there used to be something called peeling, you helped your healer out so they can survive the sustained pressure. Now you only peel on 1 shot cooldowns!

    Stop buying into this healer oriented garbage. Pvp will continue to decline until healing is dealt with.
    Last edited by Korgoth; 2013-12-18 at 07:31 PM.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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  2. #2
    I don't know if I am going off topic, but my impression is that it is extremely easier to master a DPS role than a healer role.

    I've partnered up with great DPS players randomly looking in trade, but it's 10 times harder to find a decent healer.
    Also I don't know if it's just me, but I notice that (enemy) healers tend to make the most mistakes in arenas.

    Could it be that either healers are hard to master, or healers don't appeal to a wide audience that blizzard is FORCED to make them overpowered just to get the game going?
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Enough is enough. A healer should not be able to completely out heal a dps damage using only instants. A healer should have to cast! A healer should have to use their CC to survive. A healer should not have burst Cooldowns better then most dps. This game has turned to garbage and healers are the number 1 cause. Healers should die 1v1 to a dps if the healer plays badly.

    Sustained classes don't work because healers are so overpowered. Overpowered to a point where right now Bladestorm is bad to use in 5s, high single target AOE damage is bad to use, because when you have two healers no amount of damage matters, only CC does, because healing is double triple quadruple what any dps can do. Which has caused Burst and Instant CC to be at the point where you can kill another dps in under 10s, but you have no chance at all to kill a healer without another dps and all CDs, and none of theirs.

    The bullshit lie that Healers need to be able to survive alone against a single dps or be underpowered in 3s should no longer be accepted. In TBC healers couldnt out heal 2 dps on them, nor in Wrath, and nor in Cata, but now they can and if anyone questions it they bring up that lie. Healers don't need to be invincible 1v1 to be viable in 3s, there used to be something called peeling, you helped your healer out so they can survive the sustained pressure. Now you only peel on 1 shot cooldowns!

    Stop buying into this healer oriented garbage. Pvp will continue to decline until healing is dealt with.
    Hmm i wouldn't say we are OP, or can survive just using an instant heal when its off cool down. Depending on your gear, and the gear of the healer.. maybe.

    I have never fended off 2 dps with instant heals only, and most of my casts are interrupted anyway, so what is your point? I'm not so sure about the validity of your rant.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Are you trolling? Everything you said is so wrong that I can't even be bothered to rebutt each detail.

  5. #5
    With the exception of mistweaver monks, my experience with healers has been very different. Most healers are unable to survive being trained by 2 dps unless peeled by teammates. Some classes can almost solo healers(rogue, mage, warrior), and with the right coordination any healer can die to a good swap from any 2 dps. If you're having trouble killing healers your spec or comp is probably underpowered, healers are very killable right now

  6. #6
    Honestly I have to agree with the TC (even if his post seems far fetched, it really isn't). With battle fatigued and even ms effects healers just rofl face keyboard smash in pvp to the point who has the most healers = a win (in bgs) or who has the best healer (in arenas).

  7. #7
    Having played (and still playing) both dps and a healer I completely disagree. The amount of CC alone can make healing a tough job, then we throw in the burst of some classes and then it gets down right impossible. Thats why it's required to use your cooldowns appopriately, good positioning, and having your teammates peel for you. Do I think that pvp has some issues? Of course. But I also think you have to have some skill to land a kill or stay alive when your taking all the burst. Sounds like the OP had a particular experience that resulted in this thread.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral lavafoxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Enough is enough. A healer should not be able to completely out heal a dps damage using only instants. A healer should have to cast! A healer should have to use their CC to survive. A healer should not have burst Cooldowns better then most dps. This game has turned to garbage and healers are the number 1 cause. Healers should die 1v1 to a dps if the healer plays badly.

    Sustained classes don't work because healers are so overpowered. Overpowered to a point where right now Bladestorm is bad to use in 5s, high single target AOE damage is bad to use, because when you have two healers no amount of damage matters, only CC does, because healing is double triple quadruple what any dps can do. Which has caused Burst and Instant CC to be at the point where you can kill another dps in under 10s, but you have no chance at all to kill a healer without another dps and all CDs, and none of theirs.

    The bullshit lie that Healers need to be able to survive alone against a single dps or be underpowered in 3s should no longer be accepted. In TBC healers couldnt out heal 2 dps on them, nor in Wrath, and nor in Cata, but now they can and if anyone questions it they bring up that lie. Healers don't need to be invincible 1v1 to be viable in 3s, there used to be something called peeling, you helped your healer out so they can survive the sustained pressure. Now you only peel on 1 shot cooldowns!

    Stop buying into this healer oriented garbage. Pvp will continue to decline until healing is dealt with.

    Why are you even saying this here on MMO? Complain on the official forums, where there is a chance a blizzard employee will actually see it.
    If you can't make fun of something, its probably not worth taking seriously.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lavafoxx View Post
    Why are you even saying this here on MMO? Complain on the official forums, where there is a chance a blizzard employee will actually see it.
    Why are you complaining about someone voicing his concern in a forum that is meant for discussion?
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  10. #10
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Why are you complaining about someone voicing his concern in a forum that is meant for discussion?
    "Complain somewhere else", "thats just silly not reading", "anecdotal observations that fail to make any point", "Its an ARMS RACE! so you cant nerf X because Y!..." I could make the thread about anything and get those same responses.

    And yet people should be talking about how healing has negatively changed PVP. Healing throughput is so high sustained damage has become meaningless in this game. The days where you can overwhelm a good healer are gone and we are stuck playing a game of stun and gun. I can't remember an Arena or BG where we could actually move a health bar down and not see it topped back up without a long CC chain on a healer. Even with full burst CDs, if the healer is active the health bar won't budge.

    The game should be more then just chaining CCs and burst CDs together until someone doesn't have a trinket or immunity. But that is all it has become, as sustained damage has fallen behind healing output, and mana is seemingly an infinite resource for most healers.

    It makes 3s one dimensional, CC---->Burst, Survive until stars align again.
    It makes 2v2 take forever.
    It makes for horrible balancing in bgs, world pvp, and 1v1. Got 3 healers in your random compared to 1 on the other side, congrats on the win. Actually expected to have a chance at killing that terribly played Resto Druid, nope sorry you can't ever, no chance at all...

    PvP will be a lot more fun if Healing was half what is today, alongside stripping out CC and burst Chains. I want the game to go back to where what you did between burst CDs actually mattered; it didnt all just get washed away by an infinite tide of healing from an ocean of mana.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  11. #11
    I miss the days of strats involving running healers oom through sustained damage.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nerdjames View Post
    Are you trolling? Everything you said is so wrong that I can't even be bothered to rebutt each detail.
    this has to be a troll. all you ahve to do is watch a 3v3 steam for any amount of time to see a healer not doing half the things the op is claiming. Also pvp isn't pve where you just punch your damage rotation and expect to win.

    also I had far better survability in bc and even in wrath on my healers then i have now, back then you actually had in land interupts, now you just chain instant cc into your dps cds.

    as for "sustained damage" (really your only valid complaint) that is what blizz has designed for all situations, dps based around cds in pve, you really think that is going to think that won't carry over to pvp and btw nothing to do with healers.
    Last edited by Stormspellz; 2013-12-19 at 03:20 AM.
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  13. #13
    Healing is boring, so it has to be OP for people to play it.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sith View Post
    Healing is boring, so it has to be OP for people to play it.
    And yet we had non OP healers for 6 years and no lack of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    this has to be a troll. all you ahve to do is watch a 3v3 steam for any amount of time to see a healer not doing half the things the op is claiming. Also pvp isn't pve where you just punch your damage rotation and expect to win.

    also I had far better survability in bc and even in wrath on my healers then i have now, back then you actually had in land interupts, now you just chain instant cc into your dps cds.

    as for "sustained damage" (really your only valid complaint) that is what blizz has designed for all situations, dps based around cds in pve, you really think that is going to think that won't carry over to pvp and btw nothing to do with healers.
    Yes watch those streams, and what do you see, no pressure at all if the healer isnt in a CC as the healer easily takes care of the damage done by 2 dps. Yes it's not PVE, but that doesn't mean it has to be nothing but Stun and Gun, which you seem to be whining about when you bring up your survivability. Yet don't realize it's the necessary counter to this ultra high healing throughput.

    And the "it's PVE's fault" argument is sad and tired at this point. Cooldowns can easily be adjusted only for PVP. This is a post C Smash nerf world, stop using Vanilla arguments.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  15. #15
    Blizzard will be making serious changes to PVP in WoD by looking to reduce the power of both instant heals and CC. I think that's a good step on the way.

    I totally agree that a healer shouldn't be able to heal purely on instants with no mana consequences, but if you're asking to be able to solo a healer as DPS then that wouldn't work as it would break 3v3 and 5v5. Unless they came up with some kind of weird scaling... but really, healers should not be involved in duels.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    And yet we had non OP healers for 6 years and no lack of them.
    Healers have always been OP!
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  16. #16
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Healers should die 1v1 to a dps if the healer plays badly.
    aaaaaand I stopped reading.

    1) Everyone should die if they play badly.
    2) If they die to one player, how are they meant to keep themselves AND others alive. Both sides has CC/Peels; don't try that argument.

    FYI, I don't play a healer. I learn to kill them properly.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    In TBC healers couldnt out heal 2 dps on them, nor in Wrath, and nor in Cata, but now they can and if anyone questions it they bring up that lie.
    Euh, right, sorry dude, but in Cata, that was quite possible to survive. Not to be a buster or anything, but I got quite tired in cata of the double melee teams that just instant went for me (cuz legendaries are not op at all), that it kinda was required to survive to get somewhere.
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  18. #18
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    Euh, right, sorry dude, but in Cata, that was quite possible to survive. Not to be a buster or anything, but I got quite tired in cata of the double melee teams that just instant went for me (cuz legendaries are not op at all), that it kinda was required to survive to get somewhere.
    Right because healers should be balanced around surviving Legendary Vial Rogues.... sorry dude but that's retarded.

    - - - Updated - - -

    asking to be able to solo a healer as DPS then that wouldn't work as it would break 3v3 and 5v5.
    And yet if a healer played badly in Wrath and TBC I could kill them on my Warrior, DK, or in TBC Rogue. I don't buy that argument. Without the stun and gun burst setup, peeling becomes meaningful again, as the game will be based on whats happening over longer periods of time instead of in a 8-10s window. But when healers can top someone off with an instant and full heal with a cast and an instant, the game is broken without stun and gun.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  19. #19
    You obviously don't play a Healer. This is how PvP works as a healer: Instant cast: ok ; Cast: ALWAYS interupted

  20. #20
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    aaaaaand I stopped reading.

    1) Everyone should die if they play badly.
    2) If they die to one player, how are they meant to keep themselves AND others alive. Both sides has CC/Peels; don't try that argument.

    FYI, I don't play a healer. I learn to kill them properly.
    You do know your 2 is contradicting your 1.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laminir View Post
    You obviously don't play a Healer.
    Thanks I havent had that tired response yet. I think I got "dont nerf me bro" bingo.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

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