1. #1

    Lightbulb Change to Warrior Play Style

    Hello All,

    I posted an idea a few days ago in a general discussions regarding changes you would like to see for your class in WoD, I was curious what you would think of this. Mind you this is highly conceptual, but I feel like it would add a unique flavor and level of challenge to warriors.

    For warriors something I think that would be interesting is incorporating a sort of combo/chain to make linking certain attacks more interesting.

    Let me explain, use a chain of abilities for a different effect:

    Hamstr+Cleave = hamstring up to 3 targets
    MS+CS = free slam/whatever
    WW+Heroic Throw = spinning weapon that AoE's as it is thrown
    MS/CS+HL= arching attack when you land on nearest target (basically just more dmg)
    WS+BS+WS= increased attk speed
    HT+Shattering throw (Hammering in the nail) = ignore all armor for x seconds
    Cleave+WW+charge= autoattack/HS targets inbetween your path to target
    OP+HS= reduces CD on abilities on CD by x seconds


    These are just a few random ideas I thought of in the moment, I realize some would be OP - but it is mostly conceptual. I feel like this would add an interesting aspect to the game for warriors, you can still perform well if you don't use combo's, but it rewards those who really know how to play their class - potentially raising the skill level to play the class exceptionally well.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    My thoughs? Highly unlikely. Blizz seems to be out to minimize the amount of attention players have to have for their rotation (see Removal of Snapshotting dots) for a more stable/uniform rotation. Adding these kinds of concepts (specific orders providing buffs/benefits) would put warriors (and possible other melee) into the same situation DoT-based casters are being moved away from, where you aim to utilize certain things during the largest available procs.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Recke View Post
    My thoughs? Highly unlikely. Blizz seems to be out to minimize the amount of attention players have to have for their rotation (see Removal of Snapshotting dots) for a more stable/uniform rotation. Adding these kinds of concepts (specific orders providing buffs/benefits) would put warriors (and possible other melee) into the same situation DoT-based casters are being moved away from, where you aim to utilize certain things during the largest available procs.
    While I doubt that these things will be added to the game, I don't think it's because of the same problems that DoT snapshots caused. Basically, DoT snapshots devolved into: download a UI mod, click buttons when UI mod says you should. It wasn't that it was complex- it was that the complexity was invisible without extra UI elements and caused a wide swing in performance due to DoTs and procs. It doesn't really require extra 'attention' to calculate relative DoT strengths, it basically requires a runtime calculator, which is why UI mods were created and why the developers apparently feel they shouldn't have to balance some specs around using a third party module.

    Some skills in the game already update when other skills have been used/are in use- e.g.: killing spree with blade flurry and slam with sweeping strikes or colossus smash. It wouldn't be that big of a leap conceptually to have skills that changed (in icon, tooltip, or just function) when other skills are used immediately prior. However, I think that the change goes against the vision that developers have for the warrior class at this time. Chains of combo attacks has never been part of the warrior vision, in my opinion, even if chaining attacks is fun in other games.

    If anything, I think the current plan for warriors may involve more interactions between buffs/debuffs and certain skills, such as T16 2 pc, slam + CS or sweeping strikes, gladiator stance shield barrier + slam, enraged regeneration + enrage, bloodsurge, incite, etc.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Chaining is very hard to deal with from a design perspective too. Suddenly you have movement and other mechanics destroying your chain.
    Not to mention most of these ideas are covered by other simpler mechanics or individual abilities;

    Hamstr+Cleave = hamstring up to 3 targets - Piercing Howl (talent)
    MS+CS = free slam/whatever - Overpower proc from MS (might as well be free)
    WW+Heroic Throw = spinning weapon that AoE's as it is thrown - Ravager (new lvl 100 talent)
    MS/CS+HL= arching attack when you land on nearest target (basically just more dmg) - +Dmg on HL was removed from Death from Above glyph in 5.2
    WS+BS+WS= increased attk speed - Flurry
    HT+Shattering throw (Hammering in the nail) = ignore all armor for x seconds - Colossus Smash. Two would be way too OP (but awesome)
    Cleave+WW+charge= autoattack/HS targets inbetween your path to target - A damage all in charge's path ability would be cool
    OP+HS= reduces CD on abilities on CD by x seconds - Readiness stat!
    Not to mention, adding these kinds of things makes balancing infinitely harder; it works in a game like D3 but not so much in WoW. Movement is much more static in WoW vs the freeflow combat of D3, and WoW's whole combat system is built around the GCD which doesn't lend itself as easily to this style.

    A combo style class would have been cool (for Monk); but I imagine that would been the entire basis of their resource system/rotation instead of a tacked on idea like this seems.

    There are a very few basic "combos" where one ability synergizes with another for most classes, but I couldn't see them bloating that up.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2013-12-24 at 05:56 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zargul View Post
    While I doubt that these things will be added to the game, I don't think it's because of the same problems that DoT snapshots caused. Basically, DoT snapshots devolved into: download a UI mod, click buttons when UI mod says you should. It wasn't that it was complex- it was that the complexity was invisible without extra UI elements and caused a wide swing in performance due to DoTs and procs. It doesn't really require extra 'attention' to calculate relative DoT strengths, it basically requires a runtime calculator, which is why UI mods were created and why the developers apparently feel they shouldn't have to balance some specs around using a third party module.
    How would that different than using an addon to tell when all procs are up to use combo in said order? Unless you are referring to something along the lines of doing it every so often to maintain a buff or debuff (such as rend) where you may have a macro for it as well?

  6. #6
    All I want really is more constant AoE abilites, like rushing jade wind, thunder clap having a 6 sec cd is really annoying
    And they are adding that as a lvl 100 talent, I believe

    Guess im happy

  7. #7
    Stance-only abilities sucked just like chaining abilities would suck, it just doesn't fit the modern fast paced playstyle. It's a huge pain in the ass to have a ramp up time to do situational damage when someone else gets it passively with minimal effort. I suggest the following:

    • Increase damage or decrease cost of Wild Strike.
    • Increase damage or decrease cost of Execute.
    • Remake Charge and Heroic Leap to teleport you to location x instead of dragging you through everything (Glyph?).
    • Give warriors an ability that drops a significant portion of your threat.
    • Improve old stances (movement speed in battle, life steal in berserker).
    • Add a bankable new frenzy charge resource generated though bloodthirst. Increase movement speed while charges are banked, increase attack speed and crit chance when consumed.
    Last edited by Strafir; 2013-12-25 at 05:02 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Chaining is very hard to deal with from a design perspective too. Suddenly you have movement and other mechanics destroying your chain.
    Not to mention most of these ideas are covered by other simpler mechanics or individual abilities;

    Not to mention, adding these kinds of things makes balancing infinitely harder; it works in a game like D3 but not so much in WoW. Movement is much more static in WoW vs the freeflow combat of D3, and WoW's whole combat system is built around the GCD which doesn't lend itself as easily to this style.

    A combo style class would have been cool (for Monk); but I imagine that would been the entire basis of their resource system/rotation instead of a tacked on idea like this seems.

    There are a very few basic "combos" where one ability synergizes with another for most classes, but I couldn't see them bloating that up.

    Very good point haha, didn't take time to go and see if there was overlap, I really just kind of came up with this and went with it. The idea wasn't necessarily to have warriors be entirely functioning on a combo system, more like there would be a few extra options to make things more challenging. Mind you I would need to make some better ideas, but just say 3 of these combos could work, that way the play style doesn't change drastically, but like I said before there are ways to obtain optimal performance.

    Oh and to clarify for the WW+Heroic throw, it would just be kind of like the charge concept I mentioned, except your weapon spins and hits multiple targets on its path to your enemy.

    I think I will come back with some other ideas now that i am getting some feedback.

    If the combo aspect doesn't seem likely, maybe this could work in the form of debuffs, warrior debuffs that we can do are what the deep wound, sunder, shattering throw, hamstring, and Tclap - unless I am missing something. Maybe a combination of debuffs combine for an improved debuff or something to that effect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Strafir View Post
    Stance-only abilities sucked just like chaining abilities would suck, it just doesn't fit the modern fast paced playstyle. It's a huge pain in the ass to have a ramp up time to do situational damage when someone else gets it passively with minimal effort. I suggest the following:

    • Increase damage or decrease cost of Wild Strike.
    • Increase damage or decrease cost of Execute.
    • Remake Charge and Heroic Leap to teleport you to location x instead of dragging you through everything (Glyph?).
    • Give warriors an ability that drops a significant portion of your threat.
    • Improve old stances (movement speed in battle, life steal in berserker).
    • Add a bankable new frenzy charge resource generated though bloodthirst. Increase movement speed while charges are banked, increase attack speed and crit chance when consumed.


    I actually had an idea reflecting this for an alternative lvl 100 warrior talent, basically you can build up rage/frenzy stacks and you get some passive buff and can consume them at max stacks or at a certain point for a massive dmg attack.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orville078 View Post
    I actually had an idea reflecting this for an alternative lvl 100 warrior talent, basically you can build up rage/frenzy stacks and you get some passive buff and can consume them at max stacks or at a certain point for a massive dmg attack.
    That's almost exactly what Bloodthirst already does in the form of Enrage/Raging Blow. Enrage even gives you a speed increase if you glyph it!
    Could be a halfway interesting change to Flurry in there somewhere though I don't think adding more activated abilities are on the table; what with no new abilities in WoD (minus talents), and everyone talking about cutting out the "bloat".

  10. #10
    Add a bankable new frenzy charge resource generated though bloodthirst. Increase movement speed while charges are banked, increase attack speed and crit chance when consumed.

    I actually had an idea reflecting this for an alternative lvl 100 warrior talent, basically you can build up rage/frenzy stacks and you get some passive buff and can consume them at max stacks or at a certain point for a massive dmg attack.
    That's very similar to anticipation for rogues. I can tell you now, that sort of bandage does not address your problem.
    Instead you should be getting proportionate damage, but generating less rage in the first place so you don't get that problem in the first place.

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