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  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    I think Blizzard just overdid the whole Warlock remake... They designed all the specs from ground up to be modern.

    This means that regardless of what spec you play and what talents you pick and what your reforging is, your DPS is not going to budge that much. There are still theoretical and mathematical best options, but still there is literally NO difference as a Destro Warlock if you go high Haste, Crit or Mastery. Most just go with Mastery as it benefits AoE/Cleave the most. Even Demonology can go with all 3 Secondaries and still perform as if they went with theoretical best.

  2. #162
    edit: Changed my mind, no free tips But let's say this, there is a lot of buffs you can get from certain places which last even when you port in to the brawler
    Last edited by Speedlance; 2013-12-24 at 01:16 PM.

  3. #163
    Bloodsail Admiral Ironjaws-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    people already answered.

    Not wrong with those two classes, they are the top dps classes with warlocks... go complain to DKs, they are useless this tier: less dps, no raid CD useful

    Your raid leader is not good.

    /endthread.
    DK's are awesome, great burst (at least as Frost), AMZ and such (AMZ is a lover when I heal on many fights <3)

    And no, Hunters aren't top dps class, they are just middle and below, if you check raidbots at least. Don't come and say Hunters are at level with locks, that is kind of ridiculous imo. : I
    Mix red and blue, what do we get?

    Horde + Alliance = Epic

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    When you're killing bosses 10 items levels higher than the early kills, it is definitely a learn to play issue on your raid's part. But that being said, yes, raid cool downs matter a lot.
    How is that relevant at all?

    Obviously someone can do more DPS by learning to play better, but the answer to class imbalance isn't "play better than the dude playing a warlock". Class balance concerns players of similar skill levels.
    More casual guilds than yours bash their heads against fights the same as you do, and class balance has the same impact. Pointing out that they have the opportunity to play better doesn't help anything except your ego.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Our Hunters do pretty good dps in raids. Maybe you should analyze their logs instead of making moan posts
    For the billionth time in just this thread alone, you cannot use "the hunters in my raid group do well so they're fine" as an argument. When you say this it just means that your druids/shamans/rogues/warlocks/mages aren't playing as well as they could be.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Our Hunters do pretty good dps in raids. Maybe you should analyze their logs instead of making moan posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    For the billionth time in just this thread alone, you cannot use "the hunters in my raid group do well so they're fine" as an argument. When you say this it just means that your druids/shamans/rogues/warlocks/mages aren't playing as well as they could be.
    Silly fountain thinking huge in japan has good players xD
    Last edited by Megabloks; 2013-12-24 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    I think Blizzard just overdid the whole Warlock remake... They designed all the specs from ground up to be modern.

    This means that regardless of what spec you play and what talents you pick and what your reforging is, your DPS is not going to budge that much. There are still theoretical and mathematical best options, but still there is literally NO difference as a Destro Warlock if you go high Haste, Crit or Mastery. Most just go with Mastery as it benefits AoE/Cleave the most. Even Demonology can go with all 3 Secondaries and still perform as if they went with theoretical best.
    I think I read some blue (GC maybe) admitting the warlock dev was too in love with the class at the time and was eventually led to leave the role, and that no class will benefit of such redesign in the future - because that's admittedly not fair for all classes that don't.
    Anyone confirms?

    If that's true I wonder how it was even possible they let it come to the actual game in the end.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    I think I read some blue (GC maybe) admitting the warlock dev was too in love with the class at the time and was eventually led to leave the role, and that no class will benefit of such redesign in the future - because that's admittedly not fair for all classes that don't.
    Anyone confirms?

    If that's true I wonder how it was even possible they let it come to the actual game in the end.
    No idea if that's true, but what is true they did give Locks TONS of love this expansion. Even after all the nerfs they're still nutty, it's beyond ridiculous. Not to mention buffs to some classes.

  9. #169
    The Patient
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    clearly OP hasn't tried heroic Siege crafter we had ppl bring in their hunter alts so they can go on the belt every time.

  10. #170
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    clearly OP hasn't tried heroic Siege crafter we had ppl bring in their hunter alts so they can go on the belt every time.
    One boss with a special job which rogues and monks also can do (boomkin with symbiosis, but that requires a hunter so it doesn't matter) does not make hunters have good enough dps for not having any raidCD, which this thread is about.
    Last edited by Joyful; 2013-12-25 at 02:35 AM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by mediic View Post
    How is that relevant at all?

    Obviously someone can do more DPS by learning to play better, but the answer to class imbalance isn't "play better than the dude playing a warlock". Class balance concerns players of similar skill levels.
    More casual guilds than yours bash their heads against fights the same as you do, and class balance has the same impact. Pointing out that they have the opportunity to play better doesn't help anything except your ego.
    You did not read the post I was responding to, but that's ok it's easy to point things out when not taken in context. And yes, I agree we're not on the same level as other classes. But that being said, when you are 10 item levels higher than the first kills, complaining about unequal dps is much more irrelevant.
    Last edited by Libertarian; 2013-12-25 at 06:55 AM.
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    You did not read the post I was responding to, but that's ok it's easy to point things out when not taken in context. And yes, I agree we're not on the same level as other classes.
    I read your posts and the ones you replied to.

    But that being said, when you are 10 item levels higher than the first kills, complaining about unequal dps is much more irrelevant.
    Can you explain why you think so?
    Guilds working on H Garrosh now, due to being less skilled or simply raiding half as much (or less) as you do find class balance to be just as relevant as when you did it. Due to their more casual nature they may be more tolerant of it, but it affects them just the same.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Rank 10 brawler at ilvl 440 is harder then killing garrosh hc Proving grounds 44 waves at ilvl 440 is also harder, So I consider myself a world class hunter
    lol this is so true

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Rank 10 brawler at ilvl 440 is harder then killing garrosh hc Proving grounds 44 waves at ilvl 440 is also harder, So I consider myself a world class hunter

    haha same yolo

  15. #175
    Legendary! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydarm View Post
    Because we bring no raid cooldowns. I don't really care that we "bring buffs" cause in 25m it is completely irrelevant. We do subpar DPS on most fights compared to other classes, and we bring no raid cooldowns, no movement cooldowns, nothing. I've argued the point many times that hunters mark should be a raid CD similar to warrior crit banner, but a little stronger, and on that single target only. And cheetah aspect should be a movement roar cooldown that druids have. Just to make us a LITTLE wanted


    frustration. WoD better change some shit
    Lol?

    And as for raid cooldowns...NO, hell NO. I like my aspects and being able to use them at my own will, BUT I wouldn't mind them removing the daze from aspect of the pack and making it more useful in a raid. Cheetah however = my personal speed boost.

    That feeling when there's a new expansion out and you sit in a Garrison wondering what the hell to do because you are stuck on an entire continent like Timeless Isle, only with flightpaths to encourage afk travel coz "immersion".

  16. #176
    Mechagnome
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    This debate is pretty old. IF you are still progressing (which means you are the average HC raiding guild, very far from cutting edge raiding) then skill/ commitment /time invested is what holds you back, not raid setup (I know this very well because I'm in the same boat).

    The utility discussion is getting obsolete also. If anything, blizzard must UNDO all the homogenization that has been happening since cata due to 10 mans. With 20 man being the new size, there's no need for homogenization and for everyone to have a copy of a given raid CD just to have a spot. Every class should have unique utility, not every class having everything others have. Personally I DON'T want a raid CD or anything like that. I like the concept of a pure DPS where my job is strictly to DPS, having the tools to excel in it. If I wanted otherwise I would have roled a hybrid.

  17. #177
    wod needs to introduce the warlock portal pet and the warlock healthstone pet

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    This debate is pretty old. IF you are still progressing (which means you are the average HC raiding guild, very far from cutting edge raiding) then skill/ commitment /time invested is what holds you back, not raid setup (I know this very well because I'm in the same boat).

    The utility discussion is getting obsolete also. If anything, blizzard must UNDO all the homogenization that has been happening since cata due to 10 mans. With 20 man being the new size, there's no need for homogenization and for everyone to have a copy of a given raid CD just to have a spot. Every class should have unique utility, not every class having everything others have. Personally I DON'T want a raid CD or anything like that. I like the concept of a pure DPS where my job is strictly to DPS, having the tools to excel in it. If I wanted otherwise I would have roled a hybrid.
    you are wrong, class stacking will make fights easier and you will progress faster.

    i dont think you are taking also into account nerfs to other clases and buffs for fights.

    i think class balance is as relevant right now as in wolrd 10th kills, on top of that you raid with ppl that know what draco says, if your ele shaman is doing same dps as your hunter why would you bring the hunter when the shaman bring more utility than your hunter making some hard phases of a fight a joke with the extra raid cd.

    this same post was going for TOT too bad our fight was leishen (we didnt suck at it compared to other classes and we were able to make it easier with deterrence) but right now there is only 1 fight that is easier when you have not 1 hunter but 2 hunters for 10 man and is siegecrafter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    wod needs to introduce the warlock portal pet and the warlock healthstone pet
    this is funny. remember if you dismiss any of those pets you lose the pet HS and off course the portal disapear as well. just as our buffs when you dismiss your pet.

  19. #179
    It's true, hunters are pretty useless this tier. Bringing one causes the raid to take a dps loss and probably a lot of accidental boss pulls which hunters are great at.

  20. #180
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    you are wrong, class stacking will make fights easier and you will progress faster.

    i dont think you are taking also into account nerfs to other clases and buffs for fights.

    i think class balance is as relevant right now as in wolrd 10th kills, on top of that you raid with ppl that know what draco says, if your ele shaman is doing same dps as your hunter why would you bring the hunter when the shaman bring more utility than your hunter making some hard phases of a fight a joke with the extra raid cd.

    this same post was going for TOT too bad our fight was leishen (we didnt suck at it compared to other classes and we were able to make it easier with deterrence) but right now there is only 1 fight that is easier when you have not 1 hunter but 2 hunters for 10 man and is siegecrafter.

    - - - Updated - - -



    this is funny. remember if you dismiss any of those pets you lose the pet HS and off course the portal disapear as well. just as our buffs when you dismiss your pet.
    Even if you stack x18 the top dps spec in malkorok, it takes one of the players to cause a wipe by not stepping into the pools. Even if you have the best possible healing combo for hc thok, one badly timed CD will mean a wipe. 90% of the wipes for guilds still progressing (like mine), are due to execution fails, not about meeting enrage timers or the raid dying due to lack of CDs.

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