1. #1
    Stood in the Fire
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    Exclamation PUG'd LFR and Flex is the worst of all

    At this time, I would not be against going back to the old system where there was no random queuing crap, and you had to organise groups yourself. Basically what it was pre-Cata (or pre-4.3).

    LFR sucked sure, but now that I've outgeared it until WoD, I resort to Flex. Sadly it is just as bad, what with the random PUGs. I see now why I must get into a guild that actually does raiding, rather than saying they do. No such luck so far, finding such a guild. As a Hunter I know what to do and what not to do, unlike some. I don't go attacking Nazgrim during Defensive Stance, and I know what order to down the Protectors in. Just saying!

    Had to vent, sorry. But yeah, it is frustrating when you get so close to ending a boss, only to fail-wipe because some coward leaves without saying why, or someone causes a wipe because they disobeyed the strategy.

  2. #2
    my biggest issue with Flex is the damn bug when getting invited "you are queued for to many instances" or never getting the invite though the person sending it says i'm turning it down.... /sigh.

  3. #3
    I think the biggest pug Flex killer is Garrosh. Which is somewhat understandable, being the last boss. But it is still frustrating. Makes me wish Determination was in Flex.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  4. #4
    Sounds to me like you've had some really bad raid leaders for Flex mode. Are you using your server to pool people? Or something like oQueue? If the latter, then you're going to be at the mercy of who the raid leader invites. If you want more control over who is in your Flex groups, then you need to run the raid. That way you can hand pick the people you're running with. If you have a bad group, then you can replace the people you need to.

    But, if you're just joining a group, then you are at the mercy of the raid leader.

  5. #5
    What does random queuing have to do with Flex? You can still organize groups for yourself, and you do just that for Flex. The option to do that has not been robbed of you, nor anyone else.

    Also as cool as it seems like it'd be to go back to recruiting in trade chat for dungeons and raids all the time, again, remember that there isn't much stopping you from doing it already, and don't forget that before random queuing we were still subject to the same problems. People joining and then going AFK and / or leaving moments after you spent so much time getting to the Meeting Stone? How that one guy would suddenly say he had to go eat or go to bed soon? Yeah, at least now you can get an instant replacement and teleport into the dungeon.

    As a Hunter I know what to do and what not to do, unlike some.
    I'd say that's more responsible for people failing in the raids you're in more than anything else.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I think the biggest pug Flex killer is Garrosh. Which is somewhat understandable, being the last boss. But it is still frustrating. Makes me wish Determination was in Flex.
    Well Blizzard did say about ICC 10 man difficulty which was cleared by a minority of those who raided with the 30% buff. 10 man LK wasnt easy even with the buff. Those who complained about Cata being too hard didnt even see LK. Gear upgrades are supposed to take the place of the buff/nerf, but doesnt help much in the case of varying gear due to the nature of PuGs while a fixed raid group would see more consistent gains. Also no new VP gear to help stabilize bad RNG.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-12-31 at 04:43 AM.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire
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    Needing to eat/drink or go #1/#2, or an unavoidable family emergency, are all reasons I would not have anything against for those that leave. It's when they leave without warning, and don't return, or don't even say sorry, that gets to me.

    B&S, I am using Oqueue. Sometimes it has worked in my favour (got the Hunter-specific neck piece from Thok recently), but it also sadly has its majority of bad times too. I have not had success using the in-game Flex finder, due to no one seeming to use it.

  8. #8
    The Patient
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    I share your fear of pugs, i really do. In my guild, we never ever pug flex, we clear SoO normal on Wednesday and we clear flex on alts on Thursday and possibly a 2nd flex clear on other alts on Sunday.
    "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" ~Einstein
    Wish more people would take that to heart.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by dekal View Post
    I share your fear of pugs, i really do. In my guild, we never ever pug flex, we clear SoO normal on Wednesday and we clear flex on alts on Thursday and possibly a 2nd flex clear on other alts on Sunday.
    If you're Horde and on Barthilas, we should talk. Sounds like fun.

  10. #10
    If the pug's don't meet your standards then make your own. If you are too lazy or scared to then shut up and live with what you get.

    Theres plenty of posts like the OP's around and it really boils down to you wanting maximum reward for little effort and crying when the gamble doesn't pay off. Well boo hoo. Even as a person stepping into a pug full of people you've never seen before you can gauge the groups likelihood of success by checking the armoury. If its full of bad people you can choose to leave.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    Maybe it's because I played prior to any xrealm features, but i know what to look for when building a raid... I look at their enchants, geming, skills and their gear. Next I'll watch them during the raid and keep an eye on their performance, if they're underperforming, i'll probably kick them from the raid before we even get to the first boss. If we wipe on a single boss on normal mode, then that means I'm grouped up with 1 or more noobs. Even on heroic difficulty, it shouldn't take more than 3 attempts to down each boss... there is no chemistry to build, there is just everyone doing their assigned job and not screwing up. If the raid wipes, it's because there's an incompetent noob who failed to mention that they had no idea what's going on... idk why some noobs think they can get away with this crap. If I see someone die in a raid to something stupid and combat log confirms what I saw, then I won't hesitate at all to kick them from the raid. If you're a bad player, don't play w/ me, simple as that, I advice you stick to the same ideology.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    If the pug's don't meet your standards then make your own.
    Agree especially since it's so easy to form a flex group on your own and to just kick people who aren't performing decently. Just invite enough people to have some space for removal.

  13. #13
    garrosh still is a difficult boss, even in flex.. the rest really arent. if ur groups failing at blackfuse its most likely cause people dont wanna do the mechanics and just try to cheese the fight. but anyway the best way to get into a guild is look for one thats advertising on your server, find out when their raid times are, try and befriend one of the members and be on for their raid, come with full pots/flasks/food and be properly gemmed and reforged. and just do a good job and try not to cause a wipe and do great dps. hunters have a tricky rotation and their dps can be amazing or it can be terrible. also make sure u are close to the legendary cape as its a massive boon on your dps, if u arent close, better get crackin if u want to find a good guild. most guilds dont mind trying out pugs but if pugs arent taking the time to deck out their toon, the guild wont think they care, and most likely wont invite them.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Luminoth4's Avatar
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    Personal Experience suggests Garrosh is hard. Also given the amount of Flex 2 Group's I've seen wiping on Galakras, primarily due to falling off the Tower and fall apart I'll say that is pretty bad.
    My Characters (Alliance - Shadowsong / Horde - Tarren-Mill)

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  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    cause people dont wanna do the mechanics and just try to cheese the fight
    Sums up every bad video game player. Even worse when they try to defend the behavior.

    "LFM SoO X Difficulty! Only accepting overgeared players with achievements I don't have!"

    The only thing I hate worse is praying to RNG gods every week just to see/hear someone "got it on my first try!" bullshit.

    I get held back another week while someone else gets invited just cause RNG graced them with an ilvl upgrade.
    There are no bathrooms, only Zuul.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade and Soul View Post
    Sounds to me like you've had some really bad raid leaders for Flex mode. .
    lately flex is going to the drain faster and faster - too many lfr terribads are geting ordos gear and are sliping even through 550+ itlv restrictions.
    too many people are bringing their 5th-7th alts there on which they are severily underperforming and its not even their fault since they either havent played those alts long enough or are just bad in this and that class - very few people are capable on palying on each alt to max potential.

    u have nowadays 2 type of flex pugs - well organized - usually preorganized on openraid few days in advance or mostly guild runs which bring main raiders to the group and few (1-3) weaker people - those group are fun groups - other groups are people in mixture of lfr/timlessisle/ordos/cloak gear who are doin 100k dps in 550 gear -_-

    other thing is many people are jsut bored of raiding the same raid over and over on multiple alts and jsut stoped raiding on most alts alltogehter - maybe will bring 1 alt weekly there 2 tops but if they bring them they do it on reset day or after raid night on reset day - those are the best flex groups there can be rest of the week its underperforming people -_-

    and no looms arent enough incentive for flex p4 which people did realise after few weeks thats why there is fewer and fewer preorganized full flex clear on reset - those who farm normal garosh will get looms eventually from normals and they cba to spend 10-20-30 hours in garosh flex just to get one lousy 548 loom -_-
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2013-12-31 at 11:54 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ShasVa View Post
    At this time, I would not be against going back to the old system where there was no random queuing crap, and you had to organise groups yourself. Basically what it was pre-Cata (or pre-4.3).

    LFR sucked sure, but now that I've outgeared it until WoD, I resort to Flex. Sadly it is just as bad, what with the random PUGs. I see now why I must get into a guild that actually does raiding, rather than saying they do. No such luck so far, finding such a guild. As a Hunter I know what to do and what not to do, unlike some. I don't go attacking Nazgrim during Defensive Stance, and I know what order to down the Protectors in. Just saying!

    Had to vent, sorry. But yeah, it is frustrating when you get so close to ending a boss, only to fail-wipe because some coward leaves without saying why, or someone causes a wipe because they disobeyed the strategy.
    I did 11/14 normal at 517 ilvl with my alt.

    Go find a guild.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    I did 11/14 normal at 517 ilvl with my alt.

    Go find a guild.
    Interesting. My Prot Pally alt is also ilvl 517, and also comes with T16 2pc. While being a tank did get me into queues significantly faster, my lack of progress on the Wrathion quest for the tanky Niuzao cloak, as well as the still-existent LFR/Flex pug problems, have been a deterrent.

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