Thanks Blizzard for the Censer of Eternal Agony

[Gray_Matter]

I've been farmed LITERALLY by my own guildies before, on my alts I get killed all the time I consider it an extra challenge to look out for.

This happened before TI? When has an enemy player farmed you before in WOW? Before this TI joke?

[Kaleredar]

But you just said "tons of others seem to be just fine with and even enjoy". It seems to me that's not quite the truth. If it was so successful, why is it not finding its way into WoD? Do you think that Blizzard would leave out a wildly successful mechanic that "tons of people are fine with enjoy"

It can't be mass implemented, as it wasn't in MoP. It doesn't work in a PvP zone where the aim is faction based-large scale battles, like Ashran will be.

I'd be a little surprised if it didn't come back in some form later in WoD.

The point is that for everyone else but the coin farmers, it stinks.

And ganking sucks for everyone but the ganker. Potatoe, potahto.

[Durantye]

This happened before TI? When has an enemy player farmed you before in WOW? Before this TI joke?

All daily quest areas in like history? The difference now? There are ways to get away from them and that they are now horde models and can whisper you.

[Gray_Matter]

I only kill lowbies who are picking on other lowbies or who are messing with guards or things like that. Suffice to say, however, I could have easily tailed them and continued cutting them down if I had wished.

I'm not an asshole, however, so I don't. But there are many, many players who continually farm (also known as CAMP) lowbies or noobs at the GY because they can.

Again. Part of being on a PvP server.

Yes, that's part of a being on a PvP server and the natural response is to go to a big city and call in the reinforcements and the said players get their noses rubbed in it. Please try and do the same thing on your server with coin farmers and see how you get laughed at.

[Kaleredar]

This happened before TI? When has an enemy player farmed you before in WOW? Before this TI joke?

It's called CAMPING. That they do it for coins versus doing it to be an asshole is largely irrelevant. The coins even give you a nice 10 minute window.

And hell, think about timeless isle on a BALANCED PvP server. No flying mounts. Very cramped quarters. Players would be striking down poorly geared players of the opposite faction regardless of if they had just rezzed or not and regardless of whether they gave out coins or not. As I said, pseudo-PvE server complacency from faction imbalance has made people forget about these things.

[Gray_Matter]

If 50,000 people like something added to a game and 50,000 hate it with all their might and it is something they would be compelled to do, which side is getting their way?

As with many things, it's not 50/50. The number of farmers are a lot less than those that have had a bad experience from it in game. It's probably more like 10/90.

[Kaleredar]

Yes, that's part of a being on a PvP server and the natural response is to go to a big city and call in the reinforcements and the said players get their noses rubbed in it. Please try and do the same thing on your server with coin farmers and see how you get laughed at.

Well then people are choosing to laugh at you, because they really don't care. It'd be a waste of their time to head out to timeless isle just to potentially kill one censer guy.

I mean, think, if you said "There are horde on the timeless isle!" would you get any response on an equally-balanced PvP server beyond "so?"

It's the same when I hear "oh noez Darnassus is under attack!" My response is to probably to queue up for a SoO group in OQ because it's not worth going all the way to Darnassus to fight these guys for no reason.

[Durantye]

As with many things, it's not 50/50. The number of farmers are a lot less than those that have had a bad experience from it in game. It's probably more like 10/90.

I'd feel compelled to disagree as either side can say 'we have more' the point is I know that more than a couple people enjoy it, you know more than a couple people that hate it, which side will be more zealous about it that is obvious the side that loses on Timeless isle will feel more compelled to hate it, than people who like it will feel compelled to spout their love for it.

[zoomgpally]

"Hey I signed up for a 99-1 PvP experience but suddenly it's 99-99 wtf Blizz people are killing me an shit this is outrageous."

I'm a PvE wanker but if I were ever going to roll on a PvP realm, I would want to do PvP where there was PvP.

No problem with people killing their own faction. Except that it doesn't really fit in a 2faction game.
I do however have a problem with other horde players attacking me, then raging when i kill them in self defense.

[Volage]

You can ignore TI now, you choose to continue to go back to the Island. I can't feel sympathy for anyone here.

[Gray_Matter]

It's called CAMPING. That they do it for coins versus doing it to be an asshole is largely irrelevant. The coins even give you a nice 10 minute window.

And hell, think about timeless isle on a BALANCED PvP server. No flying mounts. Very cramped quarters. Players would be striking down poorly geared players of the opposite faction regardless of if they had just rezzed or not and regardless of whether they gave out coins or not. As I said, pseudo-PvE server complacency from faction imbalance has made people forget about these things.

I played through Tol Barad (island and peninsular) on a very balanced server. In fact, we were slightly outnumbered. Was a boat load of fun. Not the same as TI in any way shape or form. Was never any farming.

[zoomgpally]

As with many things, it's not 50/50. The number of farmers are a lot less than those that have had a bad experience from it in game. It's probably more like 10/90.

I'd agree with 10/90 if you only count people that use censer because "fun"

If you count all the collectors that really want the mount/pet, but don't actually like the same faction PvP, it's probably a lot higher.

[Kaleredar]

I played through Tol Barad (island and peninsular) on a very balanced server. In fact, we were slightly outnumbered. Was a boat load of fun. Not the same as TI in any way shape or form. Was never any farming.

The layout of tol barad is quite different than that of timeless isle. You have a huge PvP dead zone in the middle of timeless isle, a boxed in canyon area flanked by highly mobile mobs that can and WILL aggro on you while you cross through it, a raised area with no easy descent swarming with mobs and very limited passage over confined bridges which leads to an area with even MORE highly mobile mobs. There are caves and areas that dismount you (Tol Barad had very few of these in the non-BG island.) GYs are much more spread out on the timeless isle and yet still close to where "action" happens.

Tol Barad had daily quests (which timeless isle does not have) restricted to set areas of action that took place away from the main thoroughfares. There is no such respite on the timeless isle, as literally EVERYTHING there is a "quest objective."

And you've yet again avoided providing a reason why you don't just buy a censer for yourself.

[DemoBytom]

Niuzao buff decreases damage taken by 25%, pop a cd and if you aren't capable of killing the person run away. If you are unable to escape that is usually your fault, you won't survive every time but if you aren't a fool you won't die every time either. Celestial courtyard is easy to get away from these censers you stay close by, just like in real life staying with reach of help will let you survive if you venture too far you will have a lower chance of surviving.

Unless you have Jademist Dancer on you that will kill you unless you kill it FAST.
Or are around Burning Berserker - one stun and you're dead (even charge stun is enough.. or slow)
Or you fight a gulp frog. You either have to finish the frog to not die at 10 stacks, or focus the player to not die to him.
Or you fight the tigers that can swipe and punce you if you don't move away..
Most of those will kill you if you don't pay attention to them.

Now as I said - that's all from a perspective of a newly dinged character with sub 498 item level.. A character that a player might not even be familiar with yet.. My warrior turned DPS at lv 90 (leveled as prot) - I pretty much was learning how to DPS as warr on TI.. Even today (few weeks or so?), geared I still have no idea how to properly PvP as a warrior.. Most censer users play on the classes they are very familiar with and can use their strong points..

What's even more - most classes (if not all?) have some way of preventing you from running away. Stuns, slows, roots, charges, leaps.. Low item level char hasn't got a lot of chances to run away.

[Kaleredar]

Unless you have Jademist Dancer on you that will kill you unless you kill it FAST.
Or are around Burning Berserker - one stun and you're dead (even charge stun is enough.. or slow)
Or you fight a gulp frog. You either have to finish the frog to not die at 10 stacks, or focus the player to not die to him.
Or you fight the tigers that can swipe and punce you if you don't move away..
Most of those will kill you if you don't pay attention to them.

Now as I said - that's all from a perspective of a newly dinged character with sub 498 item level.. A character that a player might not even be familiar with yet.. My warrior turned DPS at lv 90 (leveled as prot) - I pretty much was learning how to DPS as warr on TI.. Even today (few weeks or so?), geared I still have no idea how to properly PvP as a warrior.. Most censer users play on the classes they are very familiar with and can use their strong points..

What's even more - most classes (if not all?) have some way of preventing you from running away. Stuns, slows, roots, charges, leaps.. Low item level char hasn't got a lot of chances to run away.

You could try a couple things...
1) Make a group
2) Stop trying to take on difficult mobs that are super far away from the safety of the courtyard (there are many mobs right around the courtyard area; the big cranes and big yaks have the highest droprates for the epoch stones on the isle anyway)
3) Buy a censer and watch how censer users now can't attack you
4) Gear up through some means other than the timeless isle
5) PvE server
6) Just deal with it and keep on truckin'

[DemoBytom]

You could try a couple things...

Or maybe, just maybe, a mechanic, that is rewarding players for hunting their own faction's undergreared and new players, is flawed in the design?

I played Lineage 2.. Waay back in the day.. And one thing I really liked there was that there was world PvP - but attacking players that didn't want to fight you had a punishment behind it. So you, as an attacker, had to wight the danger of consequences.
In WoW - you get rewarded instead...

and TI doesn't need censer to get the "dangerous zone" feel - the mobs there are dangerous enough to kill you in seconds if you don't pay attention (again - from a newly dinged player perspective)..

[Deleted]

This is not going to return in WoD, there will be PvP island and faction vs faction world-pvp for those who like to PvP.

But they wont reimplement the "pink retard"-system again, sorry.

[Silverware]

Or maybe, just maybe, a mechanic, that is rewarding players for hunting their own faction's undergreared and new players, is flawed in the design?

People keep trying to make this point that there is apparently a gigantic difference between killing an undergeared new player that has blue next to his name and an undergeared new player that has red next to his name.

There isn't.

[Dormie]

Then get the debuffs get some gear deal with the danger, or better yet since you clearly can't handle it, go to a pve server.

People need to quit having this stubborn attitude. No amount of gear can deal with 5+ grouped people running around the isle killing everyone they can. You can form a resistance but they still won't go away. Your group might kill them but your group isn't going to actively fend them off. The problem is that it is a constant nuisance. Especially when it comes to the graveyard campers.

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You conveniently keep ignoring the buffs I keep mentioning from around the island that help you survive, not to mention run the fuck away? You aren't going to make me believe that you are completely helpless when I do timeless isle just fine on an alt that isn't even 450 yet and yes I have been killed many a time.

Dude, buffs/gear mean nothing. Are you telling me you 1v5 people every time they attack?

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Yes, it is, it is the very definition of PvP, which, let me clear it up as you don't know what it means apparently, Player vs Player, Ok, So if a player fights a player, that is literally, PvP.

Which means absolutely nothing in the way it is being used. PvP has other connotations.

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Censers can't have any of the timeless isle buffs except the food one which is a minor buff. Welcome to world pvp no matter which faction you are fighting you think fighting a 570 gnome mage would have a different result of fighting a 570 blood elf mage?

You're missing the point. Censer turns potential allies into potential enemies. It goes from 50% of the people around you being hostile to possibly 100%. Which is just a deathmatch.

[rzzr]

I just wish you got coins for killing censored players and a bit like the rares, if you get a tag you get a coin (that should also work for censored players as well). On my realm (pve) most censored players hunt in packs and it would be foolish to go 1 on 5 because as a previous poster pointed out most people won't help you.
A 2 way coin earning mechanism would make people join in far more!