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  1. #1

    Loot is skewed away from Tanks and Healers.

    I know the subject makes this sound like a cold, hard fact, even though I have absolutely no hard proof what-so-ever, but it's something I've kind of been noticing this entire expansion, and I will detail it below.

    It took four different people complaining about this over the course of this expansion for me to come to this conclusion, based on theirs, and my own experiences.

    These four are my guild's tanks and healers, with me being one of the tanks.

    I remember during heroic dungeons at 90 that I was able to gear my DPS set much faster than my Tank set, even though Tank is my MS and I always queue as a Tank. The same has pretty much held true for most of the expansion, but this by itself was not enough to even make me think something like loot skewing existed.

    However, once I started running my Hunter in LFR SoO I started noticing it. My Hunter gets drops way more frequently, and not just drops, GOOD drops. I got a bow on my Hunter in my first LFR Siege run, while my Tank was pining for a weapon for a long, long time, and even then, it was a weapon that lacked Mastery, which wasn't ideal for me. While my Hunter is still sitting comfortably with pretty much full LFR Siege gear, including the AoC trinket and the other good one, I cannot recall the name.

    This still wasn't enough to convince me though, it was just something I noticed, and chuckled, that my Hunter seemed to get far more drops, and good drops at that in his runs.

    But then my girlfriend, who plays a Priest, also complained about bad loot, or no loot dropping primarily in LFR with the personal loot system, it was only when she started playing her DPS Warrior that she actually noticed strings of good loot drops, and actually getting loot drops period.

    Still, I chalked it up to RNG is RNG, because RNG.

    Then, recently, my guild decided to reform and come back to WoW in preparation for WoD!

    Our other Tank, who is also the guild leader, plays a ton of alts. His main two characters being a Brewmaster and a Paladin, both Tanks. He too complained about what seemed like a scarcity in loot drops while tanking, yet when he leveled his Rogue up, and started running LFR, he was getting drops like crazy, good drops. Had two 528 daggers within the same week, etc.

    This is when I started noticing a pattern, it really does seem like loot is skewed towards DPS classes, specifically, pure DPS classes, and less towards Tanks and Healers. Several strong reason for this are that pure DPS classes have no way to shorten their queue times, and are often in queue for a good while, and with Tanks and Healers always needing loot, and not getting it, they are always queuing.

    Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon, and how do you feel about? Do you think it's an actual thing Blizzard has implemented? I'm pretty much convinced at this point, and really, I'm kinda ticked off about it. It seems like a shitty way to keep Tanks and Healers queuing.

  2. #2
    Well, let's see...

    Typical 25-man raid comp: 2 tanks, 5-6 healers, 16-17 dps.

    So yeah, I'd expect that most drops will be dps drops. The dps have more competition for gear when it drops as well. Two tanks, one pally one druid? If a plate tanking piece drops you have 0 competition, it's yours.

    I haven't noticed any such disparity. Of course, neither of us have any numbers.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Morros View Post
    This is when I started noticing a pattern, it really does seem like loot is skewed towards DPS classes, specifically, pure DPS classes, and less towards Tanks and Healers. Several strong reason for this are that pure DPS classes have no way to shorten their queue times, and are often in queue for a good while, and with Tanks and Healers always needing loot, and not getting it, they are always queuing.

    Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon, and how do you feel about? Do you think it's an actual thing Blizzard has implemented? I'm pretty much convinced at this point, and really, I'm kinda ticked off about it. It seems like a shitty way to keep Tanks and Healers queuing.
    The immediate hole in this is the brewmaster, because brewmaster monks aim for pretty much exactly the same gear as windwalker monks, minus trinkets.

    I'm thinking this is a tinfoil hat coincidence because if it was something they purposefully implemented, tanks/heals would just queue as DPS and set loot spec back to tanks/heals.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Shedi's Avatar
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    Our tanks and healers are traditionally always amongst the best geared people in the guild. RNG is RNG.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Morros View Post
    RNG is RNG, because RNG.
    10 people isn't even close to being called a pattern.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    The immediate hole in this is the brewmaster, because brewmaster monks aim for pretty much exactly the same gear as windwalker monks, minus trinkets.
    Sometimes not even minus trinkets. A Brewmaster running with Ticking Ebon Detonator and Haromm's Talisman will be doing just fine on most any fight.

  7. #7
    While both of your arguments make sense in some light, they also don't necessarily apply to this situation.

    Take note from my post I am primarily speaking directly about the personal loot system. Not killing a boss and it drops 5 things. The personal loot system doesn't care how many other people get loot, hell 10 people can get loot on the same fight, so your argument doesn't apply here Biged781.

    The Brewmaster thing isn't a hole, they might go for the same gear as Windwalker Monks, but they queued as a Tank, not a DPS, and are not a "pure" DPS class. I can queue as DPS on my DK and set Tank spec, and still not get loot drops like my Hunter or Warlock does, or like my GM's Rogue.

    It could be something as simple as pure DPS classes getting increased chance at getting loot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    10 people isn't even close to being called a pattern.
    Pattern - a repeated decorative design

    The definition doesn't require a set number of repeats.

  8. #8
    Man I hate people who think 10-20 samples gives great statistical evidence and become convinced that someone is out to get them. Loot is loot, do you even understand how stupid and how big of a waste of time it would be to create a API to distinguish between good and bad loot, and then deliberately have it throw crap at you most of the time depending on your role..
    Last edited by Strafir; 2013-12-21 at 08:04 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedi View Post
    Our tanks and healers are traditionally always amongst the best geared people in the guild. RNG is RNG.
    Our tanks got geared up the ass and we're too the point where we DE the 2 or 3 tank weapons we get a week because everyone in the guild who can use one has one. Hell my monk got fulled geared in a few weeks without even trying. My priest got geared enough to start pugging flex raids through oqueue in 2 weeks.

    Back in ToT our tanks complained a lot and our plate wearers in general because all we got was leather drops. Was awesome for my rogue since I got it geared out so fast. But, then now in SoO all we get is plate drops and it took a long ass time for my rogue to get geared getting most of my loot through coining it.

    But, it's always been like this. In vanilla I was in a guild who had like 5 Thunderfury's and then went to a guild who had never completed one. In TBC I was in a guild who when we killed Brutalis we had only a main hand glaive and no complete sets... and then over the next monthish time finished that set and got 2 more sets back to back. RNG is a bitch but the game isnt skewed towards anything it's all your imagination.

    Hell in MoP it's even easier to get gear for all tanks. Druids and monks and rogues pretty much share the same gear across the board minus trinkets and weapons. Warriors/DKs/Paladins all want various "dps" stats as well and dodge/parry are all the lowest on the totem pole for their stat priorities. It's not like there's 1 set of plate dodge/parry gear out there that has a super low chance of getting but tanks and healers have such a wide variety of gear they can choose from.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    Our tanks got geared up the ass and we're too the point where we DE the 2 or 3 tank weapons we get a week because everyone in the guild who can use one has one. Hell my monk got fulled geared in a few weeks without even trying. My priest got geared enough to start pugging flex raids through oqueue in 2 weeks.

    Back in ToT our tanks complained a lot and our plate wearers in general because all we got was leather drops. Was awesome for my rogue since I got it geared out so fast. But, then now in SoO all we get is plate drops and it took a long ass time for my rogue to get geared getting most of my loot through coining it.

    But, it's always been like this. In vanilla I was in a guild who had like 5 Thunderfury's and then went to a guild who had never completed one. In TBC I was in a guild who when we killed Brutalis we had only a main hand glaive and no complete sets... and then over the next monthish time finished that set and got 2 more sets back to back. RNG is a bitch but the game isnt skewed towards anything it's all your imagination.

    Hell in MoP it's even easier to get gear for all tanks. Druids and monks and rogues pretty much share the same gear across the board minus trinkets and weapons. Warriors/DKs/Paladins all want various "dps" stats as well and dodge/parry are all the lowest on the totem pole for their stat priorities. It's not like there's 1 set of plate dodge/parry gear out there that has a super low chance of getting but tanks and healers have such a wide variety of gear they can choose from.
    You're completely ignoring the fact that I'm talking about the personal loot system, and not the standard method of master loot on normal and heroic difficulties.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Really? Lately all we've gotten is tank gear. Not only have I managed to gear 4p in my dps spec, but every item of my tank spec is at least 553, with a warforged belt.

  12. #12
    1 thing i noticed about LFR from the very start (in DS), is that if your ilvl is lower the chance too actually win something is a lot higher.

    in DS when my mage hit lvl 85,i got her geared for bare minimum and i joined for LFR. i won in that first lfr week 4/5 tier pieces, a weapon and a trinket.
    while i had been doing LFR for a few weeks on my main hunter for a certain drops and i had won nothing at all.
    i first thought this to be RNG, but all my guildies and friends reported the same insane high win chances when they just the lfr requirement.

    so far MoP seems to have the same trend, when i got my warrior alt too 90 i did MSV/HoF and EotS. in MSV i had 7 drops in total, HoF i had 5 drops and Eots 3 of them.
    which caused my ilvl too skyrocket. after that i never got anywhere near that much loot in a single week, till i had another alt hit 90.
    and he's having a similiar ridicilous win rate with drops in LFR when i entered at the bare minimum.

    i must admit i havent crossed checked it this time around as i had in DS, but it seems that having worse gear will actually up your chance too win items.
    making it so that someone who did ToT LFR has a slower income rate of upgrades then someone that runs around in timeless isle gear.
    (in which category my warrior now falls and has a really low loot drop rate, still better then my main who hasn't won anything from LFR in months. not that he needs it, but im still trying too get certain pets. so that's pretty sad)

  13. #13
    Here in Roadrunners, we drop nothing but plate tank gear.

    So RNG is RNG.

    Heroic Recruitment -- Hersh's multi-PoV kill vids. -- Raids & Dungeons & Hunter kitty
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  14. #14
    geared my pally tank in one set of lfrs, then cleared normal with my guild - i'm 556. You are in dream land

    /end thread.

  15. #15
    It's cute how you think 4 people is in any way significant data to make a conclusion. 40 wouldn't even cut it, maybe not even 400. 4,000 is possibly getting there.

    Tanks get enough loot. Hell, tanks use DPS gear a lot of the time (hit, mastery, expertise, even haste are good tanking stats), so there shouldn't be much differentiation. Healers can pick up (some) DPS gear too.

    All your anecdotes prove is how humans tend to fixate on the negative, rather than the positive. Which is something we've known for a long time: just look at these forums!

  16. #16
    Sucks to be you I guess? 10/25m all I've consistently seen is plate tank gear, agi mail and protector tokens since t6. I'll parrot it again like everyone else, RNG is RNG.

    This one time at Brand Camp, I got Singed.

  17. #17
    What everyone else said, also, the loot system in LFR complete disregards other players, so the chances of you getting loot are the exact same no matter your spec

  18. #18
    Dreadlord Harmonious's Avatar
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    Your sample size is meaningless.

    An adequate sample would be around 10% of the total population, even then it's not all too reliable. So you'd need statistics from around 700k-800k players before any identification of skewed-ness can be made.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome beno113's Avatar
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    Isn't this just the "She Deep Breathes more" argument?

    It literally is just the case of RNG is RNG
    Quote Originally Posted by eternalwhitemoon View Post
    Why strive to be excellent, when being just mediocre still kills the boss?

  20. #20
    We've had nothing but plate drops for a while. It's getting sad, we've gotten 10 Sha kills and 10 Nazgrim kills, no healing trinkets, but PBOI have dropped a grand total of 6 times. There's also a ton of mail dropping with myself as a shaman getting it all. RNG is RNG.

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