Main shadow moving to Disc healing - trinket question.

[Voidsinger]

So I main'ed Shadow and just moved to Disc healing (keeping shadow offspec, so to speak). I had heroic warforged PBoI, and I also have heroic warforged Prismatic Prison. Since I just moved to heals, I don't have other healer trinkets (especially Siegecrafter's) so I have to run just a bit more spirit than I'd like (8.5k).

That being said, I do have Yu'Lon's Bite, which I know gives decent crit procs which is good for Disc. I've been reading that running PBoI is worth it just for the amp values, knowing full well the INT proc won't work even with Disc damage.

So, as a Disc healer, would you run the extra 9% to various stats from the DPS amp and lose out on the proc, or would you run Yu'Lon's Bite for the baseline Int and crit proc?

Thanks!

[Tehterokkar]

Atonoment double dips from the bonus IIRC, it increases damage of Smite by 9% and then further increases the Atonoment heal by 9% causing total healing of that original Smite to be 18.81% stronger than without the trinket. Now I have no idea if both Amplification trinkets work together for a total boost of 41.16%(WTB clarification). Either way the Amplification trinket is very overpowered for Disc priests.

Another thing, Int procs are very silly for healers if you can't control them, maybe they won't be up for when you need it or they proc right on pull of like Thok, when you least need the bonus. I always preferred a trinket to proc Spirit, as it is always useful at any point of the fight, but seeing as Discs try to go for a low Spirit approach at high end raiding, you're just left with Int procs.

[Physsia]

Consider yourself lucky you have both amp trinkets, I'm still bending over backwards for a PBoI to go along with my PPoP.

[Dracodraco]

Amp trinket and Siegecrafter trinket are BIS for Disc. Every other trinket except the Timeless one is shit this patch. Cleave and multistrike (I've tried them and they're always less than 2% of my healing) are borderline useless and Horridon's is probably better.

Incorrect. Amp trinket from sha + amp trinket from Immerseus is BiS as long as you do not need the extra mana from the siegecrafter trinket.
As the OP does not yet HAVE the siegecrafter trinket, that means that he should indeed stick to his double-AMP combo. If he needs mana, he can think about requiring a regen trinket.

[Nestar]

Atonoment double dips from the bonus IIRC, it increases damage of Smite by 9% and then further increases the Atonoment heal by 9% causing total healing of that original Smite to be 18.81% stronger than without the trinket.

That is incorrect, The smite healing is a flat 90% of the dmg dealt by the smite, it is not modified by either amp trinket directly, ToF however does.
Also its not the heal itself that gets adjusted, only the crits.
Assuming you're using 1 amp trinket at a 9% value.
Your smites will hit for 100k, crit smites will hit for 209k

The heal from a normal smite will be 90k (before modifier like ToF or AA)
The heal from a crit smite will be 94.05k. and it will add an aegis for 94.05k as well. (notice how the 9% is split between the two, 4.5% on each)

[Dracodraco]

The heal from a normal smite will be 90k (before modifier like ToF or AA)
The heal from a crit smite will be 94.05k. and it will add an aegis for 94.05k as well. (notice how the 9% is split between the two, 4.5% on each)

went and tested a bit on dummys as I've got both trinkets.
A recorded crit:
6389 DMG.
1609 Heal(*2 due to atonement)=3218.
1799 absorb(*2 due to atonement)=3598.

I'm not exactly sure how that works out with the damage modifier - my median smite hits are at about 3k, which would mean that with both trinkets equipped, even assuming they only benefitted it halfway as you say, it would be 6000*1.09=6540. Obviously, it's within the realm of possibilities. But then consider I had two equipped. So it'd be more than 7K. Not happening.

The other numbers suggests:
3218 heal from a 6389 dmg. This is supposed to be 3194.5. Seems close enough. The baseline heal clearly isn't affected.
Where it gets interesting is the absorb -
3218*1.12(due to mastery)=3604.
I am literally not seeing the benefit at all :<.

Basicly, I'm not sure how exactly this damn thing is working right now.
Trying again, recording:

6651 hit.
1661(3322) heal.
1873(3746) shield.
Obviously, atonement heals for 90% of the dmg hit, which is ~6K.

obviously, with an average 3.1 (and highest hits being 3.2k), there's something going on in the crit department of the dmg. No way would it hit 6651 without the modifiers working. But... Even assuming a lowest hit (2950 or so), that's 2950*1.18*2=6962. Way too much. 2950*1.09*2=6431. Seems realistic.
So, at this point, I'm willing to assume that each trinket gives the crit a 4.5% benefit to the critical damage portion.


Now, looking at the healing factor, it should have healed me for 3K baseline. 3K*1.09=3270. So, seems close enough - again, two trinkets equipped, so 4.5% benefit each.
The crit is simply working off of the exact same amount as the heal. Nothing seems to change there, as I have 12% more absorb baseline due to mastery. 3322*1.12=3720.


However, that was with *two* trinkets. With one, I get:

6669 hit.
1596(3192) heal.
1800(3600) absorb.


Now, easy one out of the way first - 3192*1.12=3575. Close enough for the absorb when concidering rounding etc.
6669*0.90 due to atonement = 6K, divided with 2 = 3K (essentially, same as above).
It's quite easy to see that the numbers are almost similiar as I can get, however, there's a big difference in both the heal and absorb - 18 points of damage leads to a 130 healing difference. As far as I can see (getting late and tired so starting to fuck shit up and second guessing myself, so just writing what my point is now), around a 4% difference.

So, what I can pretty much take away from these ramblings/numbers, is:

A 100K smite would turn into a 204.5K smite crit.
The 204.5K smite will provide half of its benefit in pure healing (102250), and half of it in absorb (102250), which is then further modified by mastery. Ergo, 4.5% benefit to your healing.
Giving it a full "9%" benefit to your crit dmg + healing for smite. Not a double dip - although logic dictates it should, really.

Using a normal heal, with 2 trinkets equipped, I had a 15423 heal with a 17396 absorb. 15423*1.12=17273. It's quite clear that whatever the AMP part for crit healing does, it has no real effect on the absorb - it's basicly only going to change the amount your first healing spell heals for, giving it the exact same benefit as any other healer (it will boost your initial heal by 4.5%, and your absorb will copy the 4.5% boost, for a 9% benefit).
hopefully the numbers are somewhat usefull to someone who can make sense of it - as far as I can see, this holds true:

Each trinket provides a 4.5% benefit to your critical heals, which is then copied on to your absorb.
The trinkets will not double dip the damage+crit portion of smite healing - a 100K smite becomes 204.5K and the chain goes from there, giving dps and healing an equal 4.5%.
Can this be true?

[Nestar]

Look's like you're understanding it Dracomaros, Its the % symbol that's throwing people off.
Because it adds % but only to crit
So they assume a 100% becomes a 109%
When it actually is the 200% becoming 209%
The actual benefit to the crit is only 4.5% more healing (209/200=104.5%)

The mastery section you went into, can be quite confusing but it does match up. I always assume mastery is calculated last.

With two trinkets it is instead 218% on the crit damage.


Ill try to break down your two trinket example. I got the impression you did this with no gear besides the trinket on.

Some constant's for refrence
Heal mastery 6% (shown as 1.06)
Absorb mastery 13% (shown as 1.13)
Atonement debuff 90% (shown at 0.90)
Trinket 9% crit dmg modifier (shown at 1.045 each) Now because they don't multiply the crit dmg, but instead add the extra % so two of them will be 1.09 (200+18% total)

Base smite: 6651

Base heal from said smite will be 6651*0.90*1.06=6345.054

If this crits instead you should see damage equal to (base smite)*2*1.09=14499.18

Critical smite:14499.18

Heal from this smite should be 14499.18*0.90/2*1.06 = 6916.10886
Absorb from this smite should be 14499.18*0.90/2*1.13 = 7372.83303
Total effective healing = 14291.94189

Because absorb mastery is more effective than heal mastery, The heal from the trinket buffed crit is more valuable than the one from the non crit.

The non crit heal is 95.4% effective, While the one from the crit is 98.5703% effective

[Chillzor]

How does the Flex version of Bindings (coining the bloody thing every week on norm and now hc, no luck) rank against Yu'lon's Bite for 2nd throughput trinket?