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  1. #81
    Stood in the Fire
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    There's always one, isn't there.

    People have spent the past year crying like babies that MoP has been WoW unfriendly. The moment it becomes alt friendly (the epic BoA drops on TI) people start...... crying like babies. No pleasing some people.

    Timeless Isle is more than just looting "welfare epics" anyway. I'm still awaiting my Spineclaw Crab drop on my server because the damned thing spawns like once a week. Despite people killing crabs all of the time.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantil View Post
    The term welfare epics may have originated with arena gear, but true welfare began technically with the last patch of BC, when they added the badge of justice system. Running karazhan to gear up a character was legitimate, but running karazhan while getting currency that you could use to purchase BT quality gear was what spawned this whole thing. Come Wrath, blues were practically more rare than epics. There's a reason blizzard changed Cata heroics to only drop blues, because they wanted epics to mean something again. Sadly that disappeared after the first patch again.
    Not really. You could get the previous seasons arena gear (including weapon and all) with honor in TBC. That lead to people afk'ing a few matches in AV and then get epics, up to full epic sets. And back then the PvP stats were ok in PvE for certain classes.

  3. #83
    A magical island with epic gear lying around, just pick it up.

    I just don't get the attraction, is this all that the dev's can come up with? For a game the still requires you to pay a subscription, i would almost call this an insult.
    Where is the story, the journey, the adventure, the expectation ?

    Even if it is just for alt characters i still like to progress it over time, like doing 5 man dungeons which are now totally obsolete. They used to be some of my favorite content in Wow. It just seems like very lazy design. I guess "endgame" really is all that matter, but i don't think it has ever been this obvious.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    the point of timeless isle is to lower the profits of enchanters before killing the profession off entirely next expansion.
    What? Timeless Isle is extremely profitable if you can send your tokens to an enchanter and in no way hurts enchanting.

    It's just that the profit in enchanting is in disenchanting but that's nothing new either.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    I think it's pretty stupid they're epic. The burden upgraded items should be epic but not the 496 ones...
    Childish argument that keeps coming up.
    Epic never meant anything.
    There were epics pre-60 in vanilla as world drops, which you got via buying them or from sheer dumb luck.

    Therefore the idea of that term being special or meaningful was flawed from the start.
    Multiple tiers of raid content all with the same colour further reinforced that.

    Timesink Isle is a catchup mechanism, a necessary consequence of a horrible community.
    The same community that made LFR a necessity.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    What? Timeless Isle is extremely profitable if you can send your tokens to an enchanter and in no way hurts enchanting.

    It's just that the profit in enchanting is in disenchanting but that's nothing new either.
    It flooded the market and killed the value.
    It DID harm the profession.
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  6. #86
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    These so called "Welfare epics" (Which is the biggest crap term existing) was placed on the Timeless Isle to assist you all. Yes, you all. The people who join the game after a long time of being gone, maybe missed all the tiers from having quit in Cataclysm - as well, they are here to aid the ones with many alts.

    Loving the overall idea of not leaving people in the dust, thus I like these Timeless Isle epics - plus, I have a ton of alts.

    Done my raiding in Vanilla, TBC, Wrath, Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria - and multiple characters, I am giving a thumbs up for a system helping people left behind, and alts.

    And I have no belief that Blizzard wanted to give us bound to account epics just because, as I have said, think it is a stepping stone for alts and returning players - which seems to have worked well.


    Some complain about how slow it is to get an alt up, yet also complain when Blizzard tries to give the tools for ones alts - Really? Sorry, I see some mixed signals in our gaming community at times. These BoA Tokens offer an easier way if you are levelling an alt, and want back into LFR/Raiding - or have returned to the game after a long time of inactivity. Having a full set of Timeless + weapon/shield/OH gives you an opening for ToT LFR, and if lucky with Valor, SoO LFR too. It's a doorway so you can try the newest content a little faster, instead of having to rely on people running old content, hoping some might.

    I never liked the term, "Welfare epics". If this is the term used for such, then a lot of things is "Welfare" in the World of Warcraft. Anything from people getting an achievement later than it was made, making it easier by now, would that be a "Welfare Achievement"? What if you buy a mount for 8k that normally would be 24k once, is that a "Welfare mount"? As I see the term used towards people getting free/easy stuff. You cannot say it is because they get free epics, for that is not true, there is some behind a screen, going around and picking up these tokens - that is their price. Besiddes, why is there a complaint for a non-competitive item? Doesn't make you the best raider or the likes, just offers people a stepping stone to keep up with the rest of us - a shortcut?
    Last edited by Gehco; 2013-12-23 at 11:21 AM.
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  7. #87
    Dreadlord Bumbasta's Avatar
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    It's just a way to catch up and the gear is inferior to current content. I don't see a problem and i think blizz did a good job on implementing in.
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  8. #88
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebmyers View Post
    God forbid loot that has an ilvl that dates back a year ago.
    Exactly! Every mob should have a small chance to drop a [Timeless Armor Scrap]. When you combine 10, you get a random piece... but beware, because it could also be suited for some other class!

    OP: No idea what you are complaining about. What welfare? That gear can barely let you in SoO LFR. You can't do anything else with it.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Remember: everyone wants everyone who isn't them to be in greens and blues well into the next expansion.

    Which is what happened in Cata and subs dropped like crazy, because being locked into wiping on 2+ hour long heroics was what people thought they wanted based on
    "vanilla popular opinions."
    Yes, i'm sure this one topic and issue is the sole reason for all subscription loss during cata. Please tell us more about all the facts and research that went into coming to this conclusion. The whole "subs dropped because of this" argument is a terrible one that i'm sure a lot of people are tired of seeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ligier View Post
    People have spent the past year crying like babies that MoP has been WoW unfriendly. The moment it becomes alt friendly (the epic BoA drops on TI) people start...... crying like babies. No pleasing some people.
    Another terrible argument. The people "crying like babies" that MOP was unfriendly are not the same people who are now "crying like babies" that it is. You just see a bunch of pissing and moaning on forums and assume it's always the same group of people? Really? News flash. There will always be people who aren't happy about something in the game regardless of how it is designed or what is implemented or removed, theres always going to be a group of people unhappy about it and of that group who are unhappy there will always be a small group of loud mouth people that goto forums and complain about it. You may see people bitch on forums no matter what the devs do, but don't believe it's the same people complaining they want something then complaining they have it afterwards because that is beyond foolish.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  10. #90
    The Isle of Quel'danas (or whatever it's called) in TBC was the place of welfare epics as those were on par with the current tier. The Timeless Isle epics come no where near to SoO heroic IL and they simply serve as a catch up system.

  11. #91
    I am Murloc! Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Why, exactly?

    The way to bypass the 21 or 30 day cooldown requirement is with the raid drops.
    Because I dont feel you should be able to craft epic gear without doing something epic. In my opinion you didnt do anything epic if you didnt do any raid content. Secondly you dont need epic gear if you are NOT raiding

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    That has happened at the end of EVERY EXPANSION. TBC with ZA justice gear. WoTLK with new 5-mans and Emblems of Frost gear. Cata with LFR Dragon Soul. It's called catch-up for alts and lowbies. Is MoP your first expansion?
    But you at least had to do group content for it and not just walk around and open chests with no danger. Secondly you couldnt get a full set in less than an hour. It took weeks to get enough badges to get gear on average

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebmyers View Post
    God forbid loot that has an ilvl that dates back a year ago.
    but you are forgetting the most important thing, its purple.
    "Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside."

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantil View Post
    Welfare means giving someone something for doing basically nothing, which is exactly what the timeless isle is. Looting chests and tagging a mob with one spell to get enough free gear to be able to immediately jump into a current raid is not what vanilla or BC were about.

    If you spent a few nights a week raiding during the first tier of this expansion, then you took a break and came back and discovered that any could go 1-90 and out gear you all in the span of a week, wouldn't you be a little pissed off?
    Do you really believe you can jump into SoO with 496 TI gear and a few 535?
    And no, i would not get pissed if people got to catchup in the LAST TIER of the expansion with first tier gear. Forcing people to run the first tiers now would be even worse.

  14. #94
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Ain't nothing more pathetic than being concerned with "welfare" epics, "n00bs" having an easy time or what it takes for OTHER players to reach a goal...

    What the actual DUCK of a difference would it make it the colour was green on these items? They'd still have the same stats and ilvl...I am hoping that people are just trolling, but if someone is actually enough of a fool to look at colour instead of stats, then he/she needs a Christmas whack across the face with a mistletoe made of iron...

    They are for gearing up alts and for returning players considering how the earlier tiers of LFR aren't as filled as they used to. Ain't nothing welfare or easy or whatever drivel about it, it's just a catching-up mechanic that serves those in need of it. I for one know I much prefer taking new level 90's to the Timeless Isle to get some tokens over placing myself in a 1 hour + queue for lfr content I saw ages ago on normal...

    Weapons are still something you need to get from other sources AND the ones on the isle are outdated-as-hell.

    I swear, people returning to a game and instead of diving in and having fun, they get riled up by how others are able to play should just go back to being unsubbed.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    "Omg the epics the welfares the gears!"

    I imagined a vanilla or tbc raider looking at it, its brain will explode.

    edit: PS. I imagine the reason blizzard did it was that they wanted to give those epics "bound on account" anyway. So instead of giving them on a blunt boring interface menu, they are on a magical/bizarre/weird "island".


    You forgot to give your brains impression after a couple weeks of timeless isle..."I'm bored, what do I do now? Raiding is pointless. Think I will unsub."

  16. #96
    even in vanilla, a fair amount of time before BC, the pvp gear became avaialable to anyone, pretty cheap to, i remember farming alot for those... I dont see how that is diffrent then this, except that this is actully easyer to get AND lower item level compared to current tier, and diffrent settings..

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantil View Post
    I don't think you understand what welfare means. There is basically no reason for someone geared in current normal mode raid epics to farm timeless isle for the BoA epics, other than perhaps to loot the one time only chests. Starting on the isle in blues is by no means grounds for concern. Within 4 hours of hitting 90 in quest greens and a few dungeon blues, I had a warlock geared in full 496/535 epics with the exception of a second trinket and a weapon (476 from the AH).

    Welfare means giving someone something for doing basically nothing, which is exactly what the timeless isle is. Looting chests and tagging a mob with one spell to get enough free gear to be able to immediately jump into a current raid is not what vanilla or BC were about. It started in Wrath, and now has become out of control. And no, it has not always existed. The only way to get epics in vanilla was to buy them from the AH if you were lucky, get one from a specific dungeon boss if you were extremely lucky, or raid. If you wanted more than 2-3 epics, you were doing at least Zul'Gurub, most likely MC. And while those raids became much easier as new raids were released and people were able to be carried through them by players with higher tier gear, it still required time, effort, drop luck, etc.

    If you spent a few nights a week raiding during the first tier of this expansion, then you took a break and came back and discovered that any could go 1-90 and out gear you all in the span of a week, wouldn't you be a little pissed off?
    No, because I do not spend any time worrying about what other people have in this game, or how they acquired it. More power to them. I chose to gear my main three toons through raiding. I chose to gear my other alts through Timeless Isle. With all the burdens I got a two of my alts, they are geared far better than my third raiding toon and it doesn't phase me at all. Neither do all the other Timeless Isle Heroes in full 535 gear. You people spend too much worrying about other people instead of enjoying yourself.

  18. #98
    Full 496 gear will get you nothing. People will laugh at you when you ask to join pug flex raids.

  19. #99
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantil View Post

    If you spent a few nights a week raiding during the first tier of this expansion, then you took a break and came back and discovered that any could go 1-90 and out gear you all in the span of a week, wouldn't you be a little pissed off?
    No, not even a little. You know why? Because I play this game for MY OWN SAKE, NOT to police what others are doing.

    Try it, maybe? Also, if I raided the first tier and took a break, then I don't have ANY right to be pissed about people outgearing me...why? Because by then, there'd be new tiers and with new tiers come catch-up mechanics...duh.

    This isn't classic or TBC, thank God. This is Mists of Pandaria in the year of 2013, and if the QOL-changes made over the years piss you off in a 12+ game, then perhaps you'd do best to stay away or play on some bloody private server made for "ELITEHAXORZ" players who spend 5 weeks to get 1 epic quality upgrade. Go on.

  20. #100
    Epic! Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    "Omg the epics the welfares the gears!"

    I imagined a vanilla or tbc raider looking at it, its brain will explode.

    edit: PS. I imagine the reason blizzard did it was that they wanted to give those epics "bound on account" anyway. So instead of giving them on a blunt boring interface menu, they are on a magical/bizarre/weird "island".
    Yeah, the best part is, you ding 90, have your main send over a full set, grab the 2 easy Burdens and poof, you can join a normal raid and take down Garrosh. Heroics? Not as easily, but normal you certainly can. That just shouldn't happen.

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