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  1. #141
    The Lightbringer Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    if you told people back in vanilla that you could run around an island collecting epics from chests under tree's people would tell you to F off
    Just goes to show how much the community itself has changed over the years...
    Fod Sparta los wuth, ahrk okaaz gekenlok kruziik himdah, dinok fent kos rozol do daan wah jer do Samos. Ahrk haar do Heracles fent motaad, fah strunmah vonun fent yolein ko yol
    .

  2. #142
    What really kills me is that even though it only takes an hour to get a full set of 496 tokens by popping open boxes and jumping columns there are still people showing up in LFR/Flex in 450 blues and 483 gear which means they are too lazy to take advantage of the easy way to gear up super fast and then they are stunned and pissed that they get booted from a flex for only doing 30k dps or 20k healing.

  3. #143
    It's a good thing that people who only care about the text color of an item don't play this game. Their attitude really ruins multiplayer games, even if its not their fault that they have a condition.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    Of course you didn't get it. "nobody in a decent guild" you say, but now it is "nobody at all". "Screwed" means you have exactly 0% chance to experience it as it was designed.
    experience it as it was designed? so basically you mean complete the raid. do LFR.

  5. #145
    Epic! Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alandalus View Post
    Unless a guild is willing to carry you I can't imagine this actually happening. With the two burdens you would be, what 505 at best? You're still an entire normal raid tier behind in item level. The only people that would take you would be friends who are farming the entire raid on normal.
    Obv not for heals/tanks, but the last couple dps spots? Certainly. Itemization isn't as horrible for a ranged dps, having 6 leg tokens and 12 helm tokens help.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Ineluki View Post
    Welfare epics started in BC with the epic PVP gear being available for honor, I remember quite well that there was plenty of crying about them being welfare epics back then too.

    Edit: Also the justice point vendor on the Isle added in 2.4.
    They had the badge vendor before then up on the ridge in the centre of shattrath. Then came the beautiful sunwell gear in 2.4 from badges once the armoury was unlocked on the isle.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwiez View Post
    If I had quit during vanilla and come back during timeless isle my mind would have been blown at how great it was that there was a catchup mechanism that didn't require getting 19-39 other people to farm obsolete raids for you.
    No it wouldn't. If it was blues sure. Vanilla players had reverence to epics and would say wtf is this crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
    They had the badge vendor before then up on the ridge in the centre of shattrath. Then came the beautiful sunwell gear in 2.4 from badges once the armoury was unlocked on the isle.
    Except the bc vendor took a long time of farming. Kara didn't give badges until late BC. You had to farm heroics for a good long while and half of the heroics were harder than kara. Granted iirc the items from the vendor were at or above kara level and didn't fill every slot. Once IQD came out badges were a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    Just goes to show how much the community itself has changed over the years...
    Yeah for the worse. The gimme gimme now crew has gotten their way plenty. It's like when you attach some stupid stuff to a bill in the senate that is a reasonable bill. Sure mounts at lvl 20 why not..... and let's add free epics for everyone because I want to be speshul too. Well now wait a second I wanted just the reasonable mounts at 20... but I won't sign that without the making everyone speshul! Fine.

  8. #148
    Pit Lord NuLogic's Avatar
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    And in another year those epics will have long been obsolete.

  9. #149
    Dreadlord Icaras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    I imagined a vanilla or tbc raider looking at it, its brain will explode.
    Funny that, -I- would imagine a returnring BC/Vanilla player would be glad of the chance to actually be able to play with the friends that most likely convinced them to return ASAP.

    And for those that do not wish to use the timeless isle gear (Guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO!), they can progress "properly" using LFR. Hell, if you're willing to put the effort in, I bet a returning player could even build a raid team to progress through normal mode content in order.

    Let me ask you a question: When you visit a store that has both stairs and an escalator, do you scream at people using the escalator because back in the day older people only had the option of stairs?
    That's kinda the same thing about complaining of WoW new conveniences.
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  10. #150
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Considering that killing any mob on the island is probably harder ( not hard obviously, but harder) than killing MSV Normal with pug then I guess its fine. Most classes can solo or 2 man MSV Normal 10 man with current gear levels.
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  11. #151
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
    Let me ask you a question: When you visit a store that has both stairs and an escalator, do you scream at people using the escalator because back in the day older people only had the option of stairs?
    That's kinda the same thing about complaining of WoW new conveniences.
    Theoretically, people who use the stairs appreciate the goods on the higher floors more because they had to work hard and extend more effort to get to them.

    Nonetheless I still stand by the assertion that if the gear on TI was precisely as it is now but with blue text on the items this thread--and many others like it--wouldn't exist. Which points out a lot of interesting things about players, the color system as it now works, and Blizzard.
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  12. #152
    Almost 60 ilvls below the current tier.... who cares about the color?

  13. #153
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Theoretically, people who use the stairs appreciate the goods on the higher floors more because they had to work hard and extend more effort to get to them.

    Nonetheless I still stand by the assertion that if the gear on TI was precisely as it is now but with blue text on the items this thread--and many others like it--wouldn't exist. Which points out a lot of interesting things about players, the color system as it now works, and Blizzard.
    Normal possession feeling from some members of the community, really. It goes like a ladder. From the top to the bottom. The color means nothing, yet - many seem to think so. It would still hold some ilvl and stats.
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  14. #154
    I agree, it has been sad to witness wow get this bad.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Run with a tank or healer.

    You talk about "quality"? Really? Difference between HoT and DS normals? 19 levels. Difference between Timeless Isle gear and SoO normals? 57. Who cares if the itemization for HoT gear was lol "non-optimized", it is a whole Hell of a lot better than TI gear. If they existed side by side today, it'd be gear that has 38 higher ilevel vs gear that was easily attainable and total shit. Plain and simple. And yeah. You can try again for TI again, but even with good optimization (good luck getting that, btw, and unless you've got an army of alts, more luck getting an everlasting supply of pieces to attempt with), the gear just loses completely due to primary stats/stam from ilevel/gem slots.

    One of those burdens is guaranteed, one is spending a few hours grinding mobs (fun), and one is blind luck. We can't count on luck, so it's really two, given you're willing to grind. Even with a measely 3 pieces of 535 gear, the overall gain from HoT heroics was vastly better.

    Timeless Isle gear is on par with the first tier of this expansion. HoT was on par with the second of Cata. How's that for relative?

    Burdens are BOA? No. And they're the only thing that matters.


    Infinitely? What is hyperbole? It's easily attained and vastly more inferior to HoT heroics. That's what there's no dispute about. Timeless Isle could actually get you better gear if you got a burden for every single piece of gear. To that I say, good luck have fun farming 10+ burdens. Also, have fun having to get extra burdens to try for gear that turned out to be sub-optimal garbage with a single stat on it.
    And the award for missing every point I made in my post goes to...

    You basically just repeated the same nonsense from your previous post, and ignored the fact that the increase in stats gained between 496 and 553 gear was actually LESS than the increase between 378 and 397. This means that the item level difference is 100% irrelevant. It also means burdens are NOT the only things that matter. It also means that the tier of raid that the items are on par with is irrelevant.

    Item level means absolutely nothing on the grand scale, it's about how much of an increase in performance you will find from one item to the next. Item levels and stats do not scale in a linear fashion from expansion to expansion. Example

    Naxxramas gear - max iLvl 89
    Sunwell gear - max iLvl 164
    Ruby Sanctum gear - max iLvl 284
    Dragon Soul Gear - max iLvl 416
    Siege Gear - max iLvl 574

    Vanilla to BC - 75 ilvls
    BC to Wrath - 120 ilvls
    Wrath to Cata- 132 ilvls
    Cata to Mists - 158 ilvls

    Do you see a pattern here? The gap in ilvl between items increases every expansion, just like the gap in stats. The raw numbers mean absolutely nothing, the relative strength of the items in the current expansion is all that matters. TI epics are closer in quality to SoO epics than HoT epics were to DS epics. It's math.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by meheez View Post
    Purple means nothing since like what, 2008?
    2005 actually. As soon as BWL came out the color purple meant absolutely nothing. Every pug with at least 70% of the people capable of mashing literally anything on their keyboard and actually participating could go in to MC and kill at least a few bosses at that point.

    I don't see the OPs problem. Full timeless gear is nothing but horrendous really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantil View Post
    And the award for missing every point I made in my post goes to...

    You basically just repeated the same nonsense from your previous post, and ignored the fact that the increase in stats gained between 496 and 553 gear was actually LESS than the increase between 378 and 397. This means that the item level difference is 100% irrelevant. It also means burdens are NOT the only things that matter. It also means that the tier of raid that the items are on par with is irrelevant.

    Item level means absolutely nothing on the grand scale, it's about how much of an increase in performance you will find from one item to the next. Item levels and stats do not scale in a linear fashion from expansion to expansion. Example

    Naxxramas gear - max iLvl 89
    Sunwell gear - max iLvl 164
    Ruby Sanctum gear - max iLvl 284
    Dragon Soul Gear - max iLvl 416
    Siege Gear - max iLvl 574

    Vanilla to BC - 75 ilvls
    BC to Wrath - 120 ilvls
    Wrath to Cata- 132 ilvls
    Cata to Mists - 158 ilvls

    Do you see a pattern here? The gap in ilvl between items increases every expansion, just like the gap in stats. The raw numbers mean absolutely nothing, the relative strength of the items in the current expansion is all that matters. TI epics are closer in quality to SoO epics than HoT epics were to DS epics. It's math.
    TI epics are nowhere near the relative strength of SoO normal gear. That's just an extremely laughable joke. HoT gear was FAR closer in terms of relative power to normal DS gear. You say "it's math" and then go on to be just completely blatantly wrong about it. Nice job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NuLogic View Post
    And in another year those epics will have long been obsolete.
    Timeless gear is already obsolete. It was obsolete the day it came out. People have this completely retarded inability to apply logic to things and just scream bloody murder because it's purple, even if completely horrendous.

  17. #157
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwiez View Post
    If I had quit during vanilla and come back during timeless isle my mind would have been blown at how great it was that there was a catchup mechanism that didn't require getting 19-39 other people to farm obsolete raids for you.
    This post is disingenuous.

    What actually happens is, people ask for gear many ilevels higher than what drops in Flex in order to take you aboard.

    People still have to carry you and gear you like they did in 2006. Nothing has changed.

  18. #158
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    I really hate the term "welfare epics".
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  19. #159
    Timeless island is one of the worst things to ever happen in WoW.

    Mindless, 0 effort copy pasted zone with random mobs you have to grind for coins that give you shit loot that's completely unusable 90% of time(lol1stat).

    The "welfare" gear might as well not even exist, being 55 item levels below normal mode makes it completely worthless for anything. Anyone who actually thinks TI is bad because of welfare gear is probably some flex/normal mode bludger who doesn't realize that back in DS/T14 you could do LFR and arena and get gear that's only 6-13 item levels behind normal mode, as opposed to 55.

    Basically what it ends up is having players with brains hating the zone because it's unrewarding, grindy and lazily developed.
    While those who have no competence at all in this game hate it because "muh welfare epics".

    Back in mogushan or DS you spammed heroics for a few hours, then you did LFR and arena to get within 10 item levels of normal mode gear, you could then do half or more of the instance within 2 or so weeks of hitting 90.

    Now you have to do shit island, do LFR for 5 weeks, then flex for 5 weeks, then wait for your legendary cloak before you can even enter normal modes if you're playing an alt or catching up after a break. What a piece of shit, whoever thought of this should be demoted.

    TI epics are closer in quality to SoO epics than HoT epics were to DS epics. It's math.
    You should think before posting nonsense. And if you were talking about the "timeless" 535 epics, then no, it's still not equal because you get randomized garbage 1 stat gear without sockets, but the difference is HoT epics were easy as hell to obtain while you had to grind 5-10 hours to get a chance of rolling a 535 TI piece that only has haste rating.
    Last edited by Fluttershy; 2013-12-24 at 11:11 PM.

  20. #160
    I don't get why people continually say things like this...

    As someone who cleared Fankriss in AQ 40 with Classic and burned out on Kael in BC, for any hardcore raider Wrath would have been the gear shock. Not timeless isle.

    Even if I consider someone who quit in Classic or BC and comes back just now, it's a completely unreasonable assumption to think they would come back with zero knowledge of what has changed unless they were in a coma.

    Timeless isle is nothing, the gear sucks. Actually getting a decent set of gear from it will take forever. The only problem with the timeless gear is it lets people into LFR while functionally being under the appropriate stat level.

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