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  1. #21
    Its very interesting to see, how Starcraft 2 and the genre of MOBAs changed RTS genre as whole.

    WoW 'reinvented' an entire MMO genre, while SC2 actually makes companies scared to do an old school RTS. You do not wan't to compete with Starcraft 2. The market is so small and Blizzard is all over it. So you have two choice. Either you make something different, turn-based strategy/FPS-RTs style like Dragon Commander or you just make some other game(which is nowdays either a MOBA clone or completely different)

    I really wonder what will happen to the genre in the long run, SC2's final expansion is on the way, but after that? Who knows.

    Also it dosen't help, that other than Planetary annihilation and Dragon Commander i didn't even heard of an RTS game at all in this year, zero AD, zero marketing, how they wan't me to buy it if i don't even know its exist.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Its very interesting to see, how Starcraft 2 and the genre of MOBAs changed RTS genre as whole.

    WoW 'reinvented' an entire MMO genre, while SC2 actually makes companies scared to do an old school RTS. You do not wan't to compete with Starcraft 2. The market is so small and Blizzard is all over it. So you have two choice. Either you make something different, turn-based strategy/FPS-RTs style like Dragon Commander or you just make some other game(which is nowdays either a MOBA clone or completely different)

    I really wonder what will happen to the genre in the long run, SC2's final expansion is on the way, but after that? Who knows.

    Also it dosen't help, that other than Planetary annihilation and Dragon Commander i didn't even heard of an RTS game at all in this year, zero AD, zero marketing, how they wan't me to buy it if i don't even know its exist.
    I try to pretend like Divinity: Dragon Commander doesn't actually exist on my steam account...gods, that game was terrible. "Dragons, with ROCKETS! How could this NOT succeed?" ROFL.
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  3. #23
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Problem with RTS is how on earth are you going to try and compete with the notoriety that is "Zerg"

    You don't have to know anything about Starcraft, the Zerg is so well known that as soon as someone says that Zerg are in Starcraft they say "ohhh". My mum isn't a gamer, she's heard of the Zerg. My sister has only ever played The Sims and Nintendogs. She knows the Zerg. My ex girlfriend had never heard of Starcraft but knew of the Zerg and Sarah Kerrigan. The market isn't big but Blizzard has and continues to dominate it. The number of players may be getting smaller but they're still hanging around outside Blizzard HQ, and to pull them away is going to be a nightmare.

  4. #24
    Pandaren Monk Archimand's Avatar
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    i really want old school rts spanning stone age untill modern era

    age of empires and empire earth did it ok but both kinda died out

    gimme MMORTS with those features and i will sub for life if its good
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    I try to pretend like Divinity: Dragon Commander doesn't actually exist on my steam account...gods, that game was terrible. "Dragons, with ROCKETS! How could this NOT succeed?" ROFL.
    The idea was really good, and the turn based map also, however, the RTS gameplay was SOOOOOO one dimensional, mass an army, go zerg, such a dissapointment. Specially after Starcraft universe's three completely different races. Even 12 years old Starcraft had more diversity and better gameplay than Dragon Commander
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  6. #26
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Problem with RTS is how on earth are you going to try and compete with the notoriety that is "Zerg"
    How Zergs being so famous makes problems for RTS makers? =)
    Look how famous marvel or DC characters, but i don't see much people playing in games with them

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    The idea was really good, and the turn based map also, however, the RTS gameplay was SOOOOOO one dimensional, mass an army, go zerg, such a dissapointment. Specially after Starcraft universe's three completely different races. Even 12 years old Starcraft had more diversity and better gameplay than Dragon Commander
    This can be part of a problem with RTS games, developers making shitty gameplay that is abused by making bigger army than enemy. Leaving no strategy to deny this tactic.
    SC2 has very interesting gameplay with a lot of options. Same goes for WH40k and RUSE games, where you can't rely on a big-ass army.

    Actually, couple of days ago i played against someone online in RUSE, and poor guy massed Tigers and failed to hide them from my scout. He had 0 anti-air units and my fighter-bombers wrecked his tigers leaving him without any supply left to make new units. No new units = can't defend supply lines = no money = instant lose.
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2013-12-23 at 09:26 AM.
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    How Zergs being so famous makes problems for RTS makers? =)
    Look how famous marvel or DC characters, but i don't see much people playing in games with them

    I agree that Zerg as a race dosen't have such a domminance than for example CoD or the likes, but the definition 'zerg rush', 'being zerged', etc do help Blizzard, nonetheless

    https://www.google.hu/#q=zerg+rush&safe=off
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  8. #28
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    I've heard really good things about Planetary Annihilation. It's still in beta though.
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  9. #29
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    How Zergs being so famous makes problems for RTS makers? =)
    Look how famous marvel or DC characters, but i don't see much people playing in games with them
    You don't see any rivals to them either The somewhat small popularity of both super heroes and RTS games is comparable in that they have a niche market. However, in both, characters and groups and whatever else are already established, you don't see anyone trying to compete and those who do have failed miserably. This goes for both comics and RTS games. The Zerg are the RTS version of Superman in the comic books. Very famous and widely known even if you don't know any more info (I couldn't tell you supermans enemy or if he was Marvel or DC) but no competitor is ever going to break that level of popularity. Not for a long time at least.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The latest Age of Empires and Civ 5 was pretty brilliant, dunno about the OP.
    i've not played a AoE game since... 2? damn that's going back. also as amazing as civ 5 is, it's turn based, not real-time, so doesn't really count.

    i agree with OP though, the genre does seem to be dying, there aren't that many RTS games being made, afaik the general consensus is SCII or go home =\ wouldn't mind that, but it remains fairly costly and when it's been on sale i've been broke, so bad timings

  11. #31
    Dreadlord Ripox's Avatar
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    Check Europa Universalis IV and Crusader Kings 2 if you're into that stuff.

    My two favorite RTS games of all time were: "Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour" and "Warcraft III: TFT"

    Oh oh and also Lord of The Rings: Battle for Middle Earth 2
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  12. #32
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    I agree that Zerg as a race dosen't have such a domminance than for example CoD or the likes, but the definition 'zerg rush', 'being zerged', etc do help Blizzard, nonetheless

    https://www.google.hu/#q=zerg+rush&safe=off
    Usually people don't trust links with these parameters.
    But instead of "Zerg" people used "Blitz", i fail to see why it should matter that much, and people who hear "zerg" don't instantly think that they should try out or buy starcraft over other RTS games.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    You don't see any rivals to them either The somewhat small popularity of both super heroes and RTS games is comparable in that they have a niche market. However, in both, characters and groups and whatever else are already established, you don't see anyone trying to compete and those who do have failed miserably. This goes for both comics and RTS games. The Zerg are the RTS version of Superman in the comic books. Very famous and widely known even if you don't know any more info (I couldn't tell you supermans enemy or if he was Marvel or DC) but no competitor is ever going to break that level of popularity. Not for a long time at least.
    Yeah, but knowing that there is big and popular game won't help you to decide, is this game worth playing or not. And it won't make you to reconsider about buying different game. Or you don't like space-alien-based games and want something like Stronghold.

    And you haven't heard about Lex Luthor or Martian Manhunter? Wow, i thought they were popular xD
    And people fail to see "rivals" in comic books because, often, these "rivals" are not bad, and comic world is not black or white (marvel Mystique and Magneto, Lizard man and Venom) you often see rivals allying with heroes to fight common enemy, probably RTS makers can use famous "Zerg" race to advertise their games (i've played DoW and one of my friends asked "what is these zerg-like units? Looks fun, should buy it, lol)
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2013-12-23 at 09:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #33
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    and people who hear "zerg" don't instantly think that they should try out or buy starcraft over other RTS games.
    Right but people have heard of Zerg though. They don't have to know what Starcraft is, the word "zerg" is known. That is a massive advantage to Blizzard. If I said Tau to someone, chances are they won't know the Warhammer 40K race. They'll think the greek letter or something else. I think I may have phrased this very badly in my first post - the brand awareness is a huge boost, even if it doesn't make you think "lets play SC!" having such recognition is a boon.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    I've heard really good things about Planetary Annihilation. It's still in beta though.
    If you liked Total Annihilation, you'll probably like this. Like I said, I'm in the beta, and so far it looks like it'll be a good game. It has quite a ways to go, though. My biggest complaint is that every unit and building in the game seems to be made out of papier mâché, everything breaks in 1-2 hits. I AM really liking that every building seems to have the capability to be built at sea as well (barring land-based vehicles, for obvious reasons). TA only did it for a few of them. Planes also fly extremely fast - as a player, they're almost impossible to target. I AM loving that it covers an entire planet, instead of just a flat map, and the fact that you can rotate your buildings before you put them down. I've yet to be able to smash a meteor into a planet, but I'm hoping :-)

    There also currently isn't any sort of campaign at all, and at least from what the front UI shows, I don't think there ever will be. And that REALLY pisses me off. At the moment it's just a skirmish with AI/online opponents, and that's it >.> But this is the ONLY game either out or coming out that I can even consider a legit RTS (I know Dawn of War and Company of Heroes are technically RTS, but I consider a real RTS to be like Age of Empires, etc), and that's just sad. I liked having options :-(
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  15. #35
    Company of Heroes 2 was released recently.

    And there are other games out there, if you look for them. The only thing really missing is Warcraft IV, which will likely not come for another ten years.

    If we're lucky we might get HD remakes of Warcraft 1 and 2 - which will be amazing I might add.

  16. #36
    Also if you didn't tried it yet, Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War (the first game!) is a good one, not exactly like Starcraft, but really good nonetheless, we played so much on lan with my roomates.

    As for Martian Manhunter, i have no idea who he is
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  17. #37
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    I think that i've started dividing RTS genre on others smaller genres after playing Perimeter and Darwinia games.

    When i started playing WH40k, i've stumbled upon an issue of NOT BEING ABLE TO MICRO SHIT. Probably switching from SC to WH40k will be hard, but WH is all about decision making, knowing weak and strong sides of units, utilizing of strategic zones, playable races are so different that it can you a pain in the ass (playing Eldar after Space marines? anyone?). And fights in WH40k are so long. If you hunker down 1 squad of space marines in strong cover, only army 3 times stronger will be able to smoke them out of it due to reinforce feature and space marines being very versatile
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2013-12-23 at 09:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  18. #38
    Brewmaster Otaka's Avatar
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    we also have spellforce going strong, they are releasing a new game early next year. This time with coop campaign aswell.

    Theres not really any lack of RTS-games... most of them just arent very popular.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    we also have spellforce going strong, they are releasing a new game early next year. This time with coop campaign aswell.

    Theres not really any lack of RTS-games... most of them just arent very popular.
    Probably because of all hype that console games get
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  20. #40
    Homeworld HD versions are coming out soon (I hope they do Cataclysm too) which should hopefully lead to another in the series. Personally I fell in love with the original c&c, but by the time Red Alert 2 came out it just felt... diluted. I haven't been able to play a c&c game since Tiberium Sun.
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