1. #1

    Storm, Earth, and Fire - How to counter it?

    WW monks have this ability:

    Storm, Earth, and Fire

    The Monk splits, summoning an elemental spirit to attack the target. The Monk can split into up to 2 elemental spirits at a time.

    The spirits will attack their targets and mirror your damaging abilities. However, for each elemental spirit summoned the Monk's own damage will be reduced.

    1 Spirit Summoned - Monk and spirit deal 70% of the Monk's normal damage.

    2 Spirits Summoned - Monk and spirits deal 55% of the Monk's normal damage.

    The elemental spirits will last until the Monk cancels the effect or their target dies or is otherwise unavailable.


    I encountered a WW monk (and healer) using this ability and he was nuking both my warrior and my pally healer, that it become unhealable.

    What is the strategy to counter this?
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  2. #2
    Well since this ability is like 1 year old and it seems you only discovered it now, i'd say it's not THAT much problematic.
    As for how to counter it, it behaves pretty strangely at times but it's just a cleave ability like any other melee has really, or like dot-cleave works for ranged. It is more damage output, you counter it by having more heals / cc the monk / "kite" the monk.

    EDIT : or kill the clones but he can always re cast it. But that's just buying you 1 GCD since he'll recast it.
    Last edited by Neow; 2013-12-23 at 01:25 PM.

  3. #3
    If you cc/kite the monk the spirits will be left dealing pitiful autoattack damage.

  4. #4
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    kill the clones they got like 1 hp...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    kill the clones they got like 1 hp...
    I must have killed at least 20 clones and he would recast them each time.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  6. #6
    The Patient Divinism's Avatar
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    They have about 20% of the monk's HP, so about 40-50k hp. In addition to killing it, you could also do the following:

    -Fear / root / disorient it. Which will cause it to despawn. Shamans with Earthgrab totem will make usage of this ability impossible as it gets rooted right away when summoned. Stunning it will not cause them to despawn.

    -Use effects like Vanish / Shadowmeld / Spectral Guise. Most of the time the clone loses target, but may not work if you exit invisibility too soon.

    -Try kiting it. The clone does not replicate the monk's CC abilities. So if the monk starts channeling fists of fury, it will only deal the damage, making it easy for you to move out of it.

    -The clone has its own buffs (Tiger Palm, Rising Sun Kick, Tigereye Brew), so killing it while the monk is bursting will severely hurt the clone's burst. There is also a bit of ramp up time for the clone to get back its buffs.

    -You could fight closer to your paladin so that you can kill it off when it matters.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    It wont matter. The clones will only do the actions the monk does if they are not on the same target. In 2s they can summon 3, but because they will be on the same target, you will only get auto attack damage.

    It is safe to ignore them, I do and dont have issues. CCing them and/or the monk solved the issue.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinism View Post
    They have about 20% of the monk's HP, so about 40-50k hp. In addition to killing it, you could also do the following:

    -Fear / root / disorient it. Which will cause it to despawn. Shamans with Earthgrab totem will make usage of this ability impossible as it gets rooted right away when summoned. Stunning it will not cause them to despawn.

    -Use effects like Vanish / Shadowmeld / Spectral Guise. Most of the time the clone loses target, but may not work if you exit invisibility too soon.

    -Try kiting it. The clone does not replicate the monk's CC abilities. So if the monk starts channeling fists of fury, it will only deal the damage, making it easy for you to move out of it.

    -The clone has its own buffs (Tiger Palm, Rising Sun Kick, Tigereye Brew), so killing it while the monk is bursting will severely hurt the clone's burst. There is also a bit of ramp up time for the clone to get back its buffs.

    -You could fight closer to your paladin so that you can kill it off when it matters.
    All good tips.

    I'm actually surprised you've had an issue with this. I've only ever met 1 Monk who used it, ever, in Arena .. and him doing 40% less damage on his main target meant he almost never had pressure - so the damage was easily healable. Even leaving a Word of Glory on both people would almost heal through the damage of a clone.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    kill the clones they got like 1 hp...
    Lol, you do realise summoning replacements is instant and costing the monk nothing.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbix View Post
    Lol, you do realise summoning replacements is instant and costing the monk nothing.
    I didn't know energy was nothing.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Generally, if they are going for pure cleave damage, there isn't much countering it besides slowing/rooting/CCing it. Its really, really easy to put back up.

    You can also peel the monk. Kite monk, CC monk, ect. REALLY kills the damage of this ability.

    As for the usefulness of this ability in arenas, if you are going with a cleave comp, this is a decent ability. In a 3v3 situation, it will allow the monk to focus on the healer and still put pressure on the 2 dps, or whatever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I didn't know energy was nothing.
    Technically the cost is almost nothing. By the time the GCD is back up, you will have already generated back the energy you spent on it, and a bit more. I guess its cost is a second of time really.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I didn't know energy was nothing.
    It is to monks, espcially if he takes Ascension. Monk energy is nothing like rogue energy.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I encountered a WW monk (and healer) using this ability and he was nuking both my warrior and my pally healer, that it become unhealable.

    What is the strategy to counter this?
    Warrior can just keep killing it and get victory rush every time...you won't even need to heal him. And if you can't keep yourself up from a mirror doing 70% of the monk's dps then you have bigger problems to worry about. Not to mention, if you have a mirror on you the whole game, that means you are not cc'ed and you should easily keep up with the heals unless you are in quest greens or something.
    Last edited by Illiterate; 2013-12-23 at 11:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    Warrior can just keep killing it and get victory rush every time...you won't even need to heal him. And if you can't keep yourself up from a mirror doing 70% of the monk's dps then you have bigger problems to worry about. Not to mention, if you have a mirror on you the whole game, that means you are not cc'ed and you should easily keep up with the heals unless you are in quest greens or something.
    I have no idea what my healer was doing, or to be precise not doing. At the end of the game both me and the monk had the same damage done, 9 million, but it felt like we were always on 30-60% while they were always full life.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  15. #15
    The clones copy the Monks attacks, so deal with the Monk and the clones do nothing other than Auto-attack.

  16. #16
    The Patient Taiknee's Avatar
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    Can you still kill the copy? IIRC they used to have like 70k health.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    If you cc/kite the monk the spirits will be left dealing pitiful autoattack damage.
    The auto attacks still do same nice damage. If anything if you cc the monk, the monk will still do dmg to you because of them.

    The only way to counter them is by killing them. Since they have 60k hp, that shouldn't be really a problem for most classes. Also tell your healer to kite them, seeing as they're quite slow, any gap closer/sprint will outrun them. I usually cancel mine when that happens, though and simply summon a new one.

    Besides that, situations where you would want to immediately kill the spirits is during a monk his burst. It might seem silly, seeing as the dmg is still spread so the monk won't do much damage on his primary target, the monk will still be doing 20% more damage overall with his spirit up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiknee View Post
    Can you still kill the copy? IIRC they used to have like 70k health.
    Yes, you can still kill them IIRC. Would be seriously stupid if it wasn't possible considering how strong they already are. If you wouldn't be able to counter the clones it would mean the ability would become seriously OP imo.

  18. #18
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    If you keep killing it, the price to resummon it will be too great from the monk's perspective.
    When you summon it, it takes a second after which it jumps over to where the target was, then it starts chasing the target at normal running speed. I'd estimate like 3 seconds for a stationary and probably 6-7 seconds if the target moved while the spirit was jumping. PLUS the GCD you spend. You kill it with 1-2 hits, or simply cleave it down.
    While the spirit is doing all this, the monk is already doing 30% less damage.

    SEF is only useful against people that doesn't kill or CC it at all. Basically those that doesn't know how to deal with it. And by that, I don't mean to insult or anything, it's just a fact. Deal with it and the monk will pay a much higher price than you.

    There has been times where I've done RJW cleave against double melee + healer (we're going on the healer and the melee is on us) and it actually worked, since they chose to ignore it. That means I'm doing a spectacular 165% spread pressure. Add in a trinket proc and 10 stack TEB... yeah, fun for them
    This works in 1 out of a 100 games though, just a fun aspect when it works.

    Like someone said though, it's great to kill pets with.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I didn't know energy was nothing.
    10 energy is as close as it gets to nothing. by the time the gcd ends the monk has alrdy gained back this energy

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