state of rogues?

[diabloargentino]

hi all,

old-time player here, thinking of rebooting the game and coming back. figured i'd ask the community for some feedback .

when i last played, i had an 85 UD assassination rogue and nef in cataclysm was the top raid boss. how are things these days? i will of course do my research as to what builds are popular, what gear is best, etc but i just wanted to get a pulse for the the race and how things were going.

thanks in advance all!

[Tehterokkar]

Rogues are the best Melee DPS currently. Pretty much passive -50% damage taken if needed, high DPS, good mobility(for a melee) and scales good with gear. Only downside is that Assassination is the only good spec in terms of DPS output until SoO normal gear and Legendary cloak/gem.

[Deleted]

Not worth coming back now. Expansions over, everyone is just killing time until warlords is released.

How are rogues at the moment? Their damage is viable, but not the best. Nothing much has really changed for as how they play at all.

All specs seem to be playing similar. Spec into anticipation. Combo point generator 2-3 times, eviscerate/envenom, keep rupture and slice and dice up, repeat. Its like that for all specs it is boring.

[Deleted]

I personally disagree with Murdeh, I feel rogues are in a very good place.

There damage is up there, not the best granted but they bring so much to the table with tricks, survivability, and 3 specs with different strengths making for a well rounded class.

Yes all 3 specs suffer from the basics being similar, but going from assassination to combat to sub you reach different levels of depth, and different skill caps.

I'm really enjoying playing my rogue at the moment and, while I don't really recommend starting to play again now, if you are going to, I'd recommend a rogue.

[ypphh]

I am interested in playing Rogue during WoD but I don't want to use the 90 boost on a rogue. That's why right now I'm leveling a rogue instead. Its pretty fun, but only after it ramps up with your bleeds in the 50s. It takes a while to get spells but I am really starting to enjoy rogue at this point. 56 atm.

If rogue doesn't work out with WoD I might just play warrior, but if I boost a new class I've never played before it'll be a holy paladin or a mage. I'm sitting on a A-warrior, H-sham,priest,druid,(rogue),dk on this acount. I have a 60 lock and a 50 hunter but I hardly play the straight DPS classes.

[Deleted]

I think the last paches before new expansion are the best. Although usually too long. Gear levels are finally at a point where playing rogue becomes more enjoyable. In the first patches of expansion energy regen tends to be slow and therefore playing rogue is slow in pve. Also i think siege of orgrimmar is the best raid since dragon soul from melee dps pov. And rogues are decent in every spec for single target. Definitely worth coming back.

[Isoge]

I quit right after the latest patch came. I myself feel like this whole expansion has been a big disappointment when it came to rogues. We were the most boring class to play. I have only played rogue end-game, and I felt totally bummed out during the whole MoP expansion. I had hoped for every patch that was released that they'd change something in a more fun way. Nope. Still the same changing of passive damage, leaving very much untouched and giving it all the same boring feeling.

Very week start at the beginning of the expansion, very slow build-up, and NOW, finally, we're were the other classes are and have been all along. Right in the middle. Not the top, not the bottom (that often). We have our fights where we shine the brightest of all the classes in the middle range, with the godlike warlock being at the top on every damn fight there is, as well as our times where we're better on standby(more often than not). In all, this expansion has been really cruel to rogues. IF you had been playing, you'd have quit at the start of MoP.

I have done my part in this expansion and have retired. I will wait until WoD and see if we're still the same with little to no changes. If we still are the same pile of boring, I will probably retire for good. It's either a rogue or nothing at all

[Coldkil]

The biggest problem with rogues (which is still my favorite class and my main for 8 years) is that their model is old and class mechanics stale, but in terms of performance the class always delivers (apart some times). During all MoP we have never been that bad (maybe at the beginning, but it was more a ranged vs melee issue) and we do nice damage overall.

Still, cthe class needs some good work.
First, our talents are really bad - there little to zero choice, especially for PvE since a lot of our skills (like stuns) have no use in it. They need to rework and definitely change some of them.
Second, our specs are not only based on the same core mechanics, but even on the same spells; that leads to the feeling that all the specs play the same way - it's not entirely true, but we're really near that point.

[Dropndestroyrr]

Right in the middle. Not the top, not the bottom (that often). We have our fights where we shine the brightest of all the classes in the middle range, with the godlike warlock being at the top on every damn fight there is, as well as our times where we're better on standby(more often than not). In all, this expansion has been really cruel to rogues. IF you had been playing, you'd have quit at the start of MoP.

I disagree entirely. Rogues are probably the most sought after melee dps this tier and is a staple in any raid group. (Many running with 2-4). The first tier was not different from any first tier in the past for rogues.

[Sesshou]

Pretty much passive -50% damage taken if needed

Please explain how spending almost 3 energy a second to keep that up and spending ~14% of the time while doing so on gcd from doing it is "pretty much passive." Though I see a mysterious lack of rogue in your sig, so maybe you just have no clue.

[Dropndestroyrr]

I think he meant to say that you have %damage reduction whenever you needed.

[Deleted]

7 seconds glyphed feint. 50% aoe reduction + flat 30% damage reduction. And you can use it whenever you want. Nearly no class has such an on demand damage reduction without cooldown

[Deleted]

The stun is hardly useless in pve. Talented it provides 10% damage bonus for the whole raid. You can even use it in bossfights on adds.

The things which annoy me most with rogue in pve are :
- bad at swaps
-bad against many low health targets = quick aoe (no time to buildup rota and without rota no damage due to lack of energy regen/ debuffs needed for damage)
-bad vs meele aoe cleave mobs, not having uptime on a pve mob should somehow give dps back once you connect again. The simplest solution would be extra energy from bleeds on pve mobs beyond the maximum you could have in pvp.
- gear and buff whore, we scale well which means also that we do worse than others if we dont get the gear/buffs, toning it down would be nice

[Isoge]

I disagree entirely. Rogues are probably the most sought after melee dps this tier and is a staple in any raid group. (Many running with 2-4). The first tier was not different from any first tier in the past for rogues.

Sorry, can't really bring any argument to the table when it comes to this tier. As I've stated at the beginning of my comment, I quit right after this tier was released. So if you say so, I can't really agree of disagree. And the problem with rogues that I am having is not how sought after they are, but how they are still the same as they were expansions ago, with nothing changing drastically and this has gotten me bored of them. I only play wow for the rogue, and I think I have the right to think that they should make rogues less passive in terms of damage. But instead blizz is more concerned about homogenization, making all classes the same, or similar. I wonder when rogues will get their own version of flash heals....

Edit*
Regarding your comment on the rogue and first tiers, I totally agree. We have always started from the bottom, gradually getting stronger. This is one of the main problems with rogues. Thanks for stating it.

[Sesshou]

this is looking from a point of view from a player that uses macros and a player that does not use macros. from all three specs. combat though is broken don't bother playing with it until they make it run how it should. combat sputters on it's damge probably because ss costs 50 energy.. that is what breaks a rogue player right there is the fact that the resource is not what it should be.

Yeah... don't play what is probably overall our best spec this tier... great plan.

[adynn]

How are rogues at the moment? Their damage is viable, but not the best. Nothing much has really changed for as how they play at all.

Rogues are the best realistic single target dps at the moment (note 10H is closer than 25H), combine this with combat's strong cleave, the raid utility given by smokebomb and our personal defensive cd's which are pretty much the best around and you have the a melee dps that is in a very nice position.

[Deleted]

Rogues are pretty beast atm. The best melee to recruit to a raid definitely.

[Deleted]

Current state :


Immerseus

• We can sprint to reach adds who don't have other players around to kill hen
• We can stun/slow adds
• We have strong dps for single target
• We have Trick of trades to cast on our lock/elem. shammy/mage to kill adds faster ( heroic )

The Fallen Protectors

• We can do 3 interrupts on Gloom with Glyped kick > Deadly Throw > kick >
• We cast smoke bomb on tank to save some mana from healers on Vengeful Strikes OR
• We cast smoke bomb on Inferno Strike,
• We can soak Mark of Anguish pretty well
• We have Trick of trades

Norushen

• We Have interrupts
• We can stun multiple adds
• We can take down adds fast using mark of death and glyphed redirect
• We have strong single target dps
• We have Trick of trades

Sha of Pride

• Sprint help us to pick rifts faster
• We have strong single target dps
• We have smoke bomb
• We have Trick of trades

Galakras

• We can solo interrupt shamans with Glyped kick > Deadly Throw > Glyped kick >
• We can Stun adds easily
• We have smoke bomb
• We can take down adds fast using mark of death and glyphed redirect
• We have Trick of trades

Iron Juggernaut

• Iron is our bitch.
• We have Trick of trades

Kor'kron Dark Shaman

• Not our best fight, but at least we can shadowstep the damn wall of elementals
• We have Trick of trades

General Nazgrim

• We can solo interrupt/stun Arcweavers or shamans
• We have Trick of trades

Malkorok

• Malkorok is our bitch.
• We have Glyphed smoke bomb.
• We have Trick of trades

Spoils of Pandaria

• glyphed redirect + mark of death = dynamic fun as assassination
• We have Trick of trades

Thok the Bloodthirsty

• We have Glyphed smoke bomb.
• We can force Thok to chase only us for the entire fight and let the ranged do their job
• We have Trick of trades

Siegecrafter Blackfuse

• Siege is our bitch.
• We have Trick of trades

Siegecrafter Blackfuse

• Siege is our bitch.
• We have Trick of trades

Paragons of the Klaxxi

• Nothing special on this one, we do our job.
• We have Trick of trades

Garrosh Hellscream

• Glyph of redirect helps you to take down adds fast ( as assassination )
• Our mobility Helps us to quickly remove friends from mind control.
• We can skip all the damage from Whirling Corruption
• We can lock Minions of Y'Shaarj
• We have Trick of trades

besides that, i forgot to mention that we have trick of trades? Each 30 seconds we can give 15% damage increase for 6 seconds to a player. I mean, on a 5 minutes fight ( 300 secs) you can maintain 60 secs of 15% damage increase on a friendly player.

[Sesshou]

Wow you wrote a giant ass list... of garbage. Half of of it is tricks which you are way, way over rating. It is a single target buff, pales in comparison to a warrior banner (or even a shaman totem on 25m). Most of that list almost anyone can do (I mean seriously do you have no idea how many classes have stuns, speed boosts, and interrupts?). Some of the stuff like triple interrupts you should never be doing in the first place unless you raid with terribads who won't even be finishing normals... and then I wouldn't use glyph of kick near terribads cause they can screw you. You using DT interrupt on those fights is inferior in every single way to having some one else use their interrupt.

Then theres stuff like how shaman aren't one of our best fights... we're absolutely amazing on shaman. Far stronger than a lot of those other fights you didn't indicate us being weak on. And paragons... nothing special? Who soaks your aim?

I'm not saying we're bad off. We are doing well in pve at least right now and offer a lot on a lot of fights. That list is just obnoxious and bad.

[Dropndestroyrr]

Wow you wrote a giant ass list... of garbage. Half of of it is tricks which you are way, way over rating. It is a single target buff, pales in comparison to a warrior banner (or even a shaman totem on 25m). Most of that list almost anyone can do (I mean seriously do you have no idea how many classes have stuns, speed boosts, and interrupts?). Some of the stuff like triple interrupts you should never be doing in the first place unless you raid with terribads who won't even be finishing normals... and then I wouldn't use glyph of kick near terribads cause they can screw you. You using DT interrupt on those fights is inferior in every single way to having some one else use their interrupt.

Then theres stuff like how shaman aren't one of our best fights... we're absolutely amazing on shaman. Far stronger than a lot of those other fights you didn't indicate us being weak on. And paragons... nothing special? Who soaks your aim?

I'm not saying we're bad off. We are doing well in pve at least right now and offer a lot on a lot of fights. That list is just obnoxious and bad.

While I don't like the way Sesshou put it, I have to agree.