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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    This list proves how much Cata and MoP improved the game.
    Its not an improvement if everything is brought to you on a silver plate.

  2. #222
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
    My two choices above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
    No!

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Turmoill View Post
    Dark Age of Hunters. And min. firing range? I'm sorry, but you can't put a gun directly at a person's head and fire it in real life?
    No you cant if they are defending... ever heard of firearm disarming?

    In wow combat it would mean the opponent is swinging melee weapon at you and making you unable to aim at them... in real life combat situation someone would use their hands to force the weapon to be pointed elsewhere.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The better question is why do you think you're being 'punished' via this relatively simple mechanism? Do you play FPS games and bitch about not having infinite ammo?

    On second thought, don't answer that.
    Do Warriors need to spend several hours a day sharpening and repairing their weapons? Do Mages need to spend hours every day memorising their spellbooks? Do Priests and Paladins need to do their morning and evening prayers?

    Exactly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Olrox View Post
    Little things like having to carry a quiver and use ammunition aren't immersive..they're annoying and silly - why should someone be punished for playing a hunter?
    While ammunition should go, it might be fun to have quivers as items (equivilent to offhands) that have durablity like a weapon. Every now and again you need to 'repair' it, like any other item. Also allows for quiviers to have models and be transmogable. Might be fun.

    But individual ammo was horrible, yes.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The better question is why do you think you're being 'punished' via this relatively simple mechanism? Do you play FPS games and bitch about not having infinite ammo?

    On second thought, don't answer that.
    Many fps games dont have infinite ammo... it just feels like they do because you die so quickly and regain all lost ammo.

    Games where dying doesnt replenish ammo is where its noticed more, like GTA which isnt even FPS but you will have to go and buy more ammo once you die or atleast at some point, and games like Arma 3 you will run out of ammo in long battle and then you are left with nothing but scavenging weapons from fallen opponents or allies.

    Nobody whines about ammo in those games... nobody whined about ammo in vanilla either, i played a hunter as my first character so i would know if one of my hunter friends/guildies had whined.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Do Warriors need to spend several hours a day sharpening and repairing their weapons? Do Mages need to spend hours every day memorising their spellbooks? Do Priests and Paladins need to do their morning and evening prayers?

    Exactly.
    Warriors had the highest repair bills in oldschool due to wearing plate, mages had to buy arcane dust for buffing aswell as create tons of food for all raid members, priests and paladins had to buy certain consumable items aswell to be able to buff the whole raid grp.

    Exactly.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Its not an improvement if everything is brought to you on a silver plate.
    One thing is a silver platter and quite another is being difficult for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    No you cant if they are defending... ever heard of firearm disarming?
    Indeed, because nobody would ever be frozen in fear of being shot at point blank or trying to run away instead of defending, right? And everybody's such a great kung fu master that they can predict that somebody's gonna shoots you in the back.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovechile View Post
    No. Can we just not? Especially the hunter ones. It sucked being the only class REQUIRED to spend money to raid.
    "Those 25c flash powders really add up heh?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Olrox View Post
    I agree completely about "immersion" and its status as a new buzz-word;
    I disagree. Just because you have a different definition of "immersion" doesn't mean mine is invalid.

    people I don't think realize what immersion actually is and that there are almost no games that actually immerse you in their world - mostly because a lot of that comes from constructing some of the fictional world's properties in your own head (i.e. reading books and having to picture locales and faces of major places and characters on your own since the medium isn't visual) and games just aren't made for that.
    Lets go back to text only then ...

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.
    The Balancing of raids will be much harder when they have to have in mind that both races dont have all the classes. I agree with some points, but this one I do not.

  9. #229
    Deleted
    You know, with all the "immersion list", I'm surprised that OP didn't mention on making all the classes go back to vanilla mode, where each class was only good at one role and the rest were absolute useless crap.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    It was a bag space lost IIRC, cost a lot of gold and often gimped dps if you weren't able to get the best ammo, hunter was my main until end of wrath, although the term punished is a bit ott, it certainly felt like playing a hunter had an unneccassary drawback, but it wasn't the only class to have such things. (the infinite ammo analogy doesnt work though :P)
    To be fair, Hunters could easily solo many of the old world elites, as well as having the best kiting and reset aggro skills, with rogues a distant second having no kiting abilities

    Trying to solo elites as a warrior back was extremely hard compared to a hunter

    Quote Originally Posted by Turmoill View Post
    Centering AH, mail, etc. to a single part of city and leaving the rest empty and lifeless?
    I don't know, Blizzard managed to do this when they made SW and Org the 'portal hub' which led to the other 4 cities being totally abandoned

    Double standards I guess

  11. #231
    The Lightbringer Calzaeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

    1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
    2. Ammunition will make its return.
    3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.
    4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.
    5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.
    6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
    7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
    8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
    9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
    13. Guild perks will be removed
    14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
    15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.
    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
    18. Druids will be reduced to 3 specs which will once again combine Guardian and Feral into the original Cat/Bear combo.
    19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
    20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
    21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
    22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.
    23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
    25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

    Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

    *Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.
    I was about to rage at you, until I saw the underlined part :P Good one, mate!

    26. Warlocks will again risk wiping the raid with their cooldowns.
    27. Paladins will again mostly auto-attack while below lv40.
    If you add me on Steam, Skype or whatever program/client I share my info for, please write something to identify you in the "Dude/gal wants to join your club"-message. Just so I know that an actual human is on the other end :P

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    That would do the opposite. Can you not pull the trigger if you put your gun to someone's head? And haven't you been watching Legolas shooting orcs with his bow at point blank range? If immersion is the goal they should change it so hit chance decreases the further away from the target you are.
    Expected Bohemian Rhapsody here, did not get it. Disappointing.
    "Let's see. There are monkeys that evolved into men and monkeys that didn't. Just as well, there are men that remained men and men that evolved into something else. Do you really think humans are the ultimate form of evolution? How arrogant."
    --Kakurine, Evil Zone for PS1

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The better question is why do you think you're being 'punished' via this relatively simple mechanism? Do you play FPS games and bitch about not having infinite ammo?

    On second thought, don't answer that.
    It's fairly obvious I'd think.

    Take a hunter and any other class in the game - both of them encounter the same loot demands and bag limitations that are a known issue - namely that there's not enough bag space for all of the shit we have to keep around between vanity items, gear sets, weapons, consumables and the like - so now you take ALL of that and ask hunters to sack an entire bag's worth of space to have ammunition...then you ask that person to go needlessly buy it from a vendor - what riveting gameplay does that add? None.

    So I'm not sure how you don't see it as a punishment - guess you're just one of those types who refuse to evolve.

    My point here is that not a one of you can really explain an instance of how any of these removed features make you feel more like you're "part of the world" of Warcraft - how does having to go do some chores like buying ammo (right clicking and typing a number) make you feel more immersed? I can't see how that is - things like character involvement in the world and the plot are immersive - not chores like buying consumables every time you want to do something or having one bag slot less than everyone else just to cement the reality of your character class - I mean, come on - I don't think any of those things really add gameplay or make the game more fun or inward.

    I mean let's look at a better example - the dead zone - how does that immerse you any more in the world of the game? I mean, if you're looking to feel more engaged - you'd expect the world to behave at least a little bit like the real one and that would mean you can shoot someone right in the face with the barrel against their skin...the dead zone runs contrary to that and thus doesn't really make me feel immersed?

    I'm waiting for a really good example of how any of the things they removed made the game more immersive because most of the people who say the game now lacks immersion say it's because of the removal of things from the earlier release of the game, not from Blizzard simply failing to add specific features to expansions.
    Last edited by Olrox; 2013-12-25 at 03:02 PM.
    Signature dunked by a lame MMO Champ robot.

  14. #234
    Deleted
    This goes against the esport genre of the game. WoW is not a classical MMORPG but a tightly tuned and balanced multiplayer game that wants to challenge the player and not the character.

  15. #235
    What happens to the millions of Alliance Shaman and Horde Paladins exactly?

    There's also too much crap to collect for reagents. Mages have 3 different kinds, rogues even more with different types of poisons, many buffs required reagents for the 1 hour version of their buff.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post

    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    If I would have to pick just one of those, which I will NEVER EVER want back, that would be it.
    "It's just like I always said! You can do battle with strength, you can do battle with wits, but no weapon can beat a great pair of tits!"

  17. #237
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    The game is moving forward, not backwards. None of those changes would make the immersion better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Olrox View Post
    guess you're just one of those types who refuse to evolve.
    Or one of those types who doesn't equate simplification with evolution on a positive note across the board.

  19. #239
    The Attunement is great the rest just feels like a hazzle and i prefer the way it is now

  20. #240
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    You know, I really hope people understand that immersion doesn't necessarily imply inconvenience.

    It's possible to have immersion and convenience if designed properly.

    However Blizzard's current "throw the baby out with the bath water" philosophy of just hacking off whatever is "inconvenient" is not it.

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