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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaris View Post
    Overall excellent post OP I agree with the other ones not quoted, would like to add a few more of my own:
    1. Ingredients such as spices, apples, and Fresh Water once again required to cook certain recipes.
    2. Classes dehomogenized, classes have distinct mechanical differences once more e.g. Druids will no longer have a ressurecting spell other than Rebirth.
    3. Dungeons Wailing Caverns and Sunken Temple will be restored to their original size.
    4. Mounts will no longer be able to be obtained until level 40 and level 60 for epic mounts.
    5. Alchemy once again requires different types of vials for various potions.
    6. Enchanting once again requires upgrading your enchanting rod to create higher level enchants.
    7. New dungeons include some larger ones such as Blackrock Depths/Spire and Mauradon.
    8. Guild levels and perks removed, removing the incentive to mass invite randoms for Cash Flow. IMO players should join a guild for the people in it and ease of communication/organization, not a list of passive buffs for being in one mechanically handicapping yourself if you'd rather play solo.
    9. Lengthy attunement quests for raids reminiscent of the Onyxia's Lair chain.
    10. Heirloom gear is removed, replaced with purchasable BoA enchantment scrolls that increase experience gained when below a certain level once attached to gear.
    11. Profession specializations (such as tribal/elemental/dragonscale leatherworking) returned.
    12. Reinforcements removed from Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch.
    13. Alterac Valley NPCs buffed, Korrak the Bloodrager and the Winterax trolls return to the Field of Strife.
    14. Dungeon Finder removed, replaced with the Looking For Group interface from patch 3.1.0. LookingForGroup channel is only accessible when using the feature but is once again global.
    15. LFR removed, replaced with the new Raid Browser. Raids have only two difficulty settings: One that starts at Flex(Normal in WoD) difficulty at the entrance and by the endboss is Normal(Heroic in WoD) difficulty, and a second that starts at Normal(Heroic) difficulty and by the endboss is Heroic(Mythic) difficulty.
    16. Number of flight points reduced.
    17. Portal to Pandaria in SW/Org removed, you now take a Zeppelin or Boat route to get there (like Northrend).
    18. Portals to old cities in Shattrath/Dalaran/Shrine removed, portals in cities to the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands and to Cata zones except for Deephome removed.
    19. Battlegrounds can once again only be queued for by talking to a Battlemaster.
    20. Justice/Valor and Honor/Conquest points can be sent between characters on the same account.
    21. Fishing once again requires fishing in areas of the correct level to gain experience.
    22. Mining nodes, leather, and herbs take twice as long to gather.
    23. During nighttime the world is much darker and ambient more how it was pre-BC.
    24. Certain spells and spell upgrades are no longer taught by trainers and must once again be learned from a tome.
    25. Buffs are returned to 30 minutes and group-wide buffs require reagents again. Paladin blessings once again last for only 5 minutes.
    These are some good ideas. A few of them might take some fine tuning

  2. #262
    You know what, while I was leveling an undead the other day, I actually got immersed in the story for a while. It's a good opening zone and I think new players should definitely do undead to experience that. You ride along with Sylvanas and such for a while. It's really good and I'm not sort of interested in doing the other beginning zones to see what they are like.

    I dunno if rolling back QoL improvements will really immerse people, but I would endorse those changes that are more "realistic." Quivers, ammo, class quests, reagents, etc make sense.

    But dual-spec also makes sense, so removing it seems like a strange choice. I like rogues having to make poisons too.

  3. #263
    Deleted
    People are saying that Immersion is a buzz word..

    I don't really think that's true. Immersion should be one of the most important aspects of an MMORPG, if not the most. 'Tough love' back in the day made you appreciate the stuff you got to do a lot more. Felt like you actually had to overcome things to get to places, instead of essentially playing inside a utopia.

    All in all, if the way the world works frustrates you, but you love it deep down, the developer is doing something right (IMO). But i'm sure the drive-thru raiders will disagree.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Anevers View Post
    Sounds like Vanilla WoW.
    More like Vanilla beta.
    "Let's see. There are monkeys that evolved into men and monkeys that didn't. Just as well, there are men that remained men and men that evolved into something else. Do you really think humans are the ultimate form of evolution? How arrogant."
    --Kakurine, Evil Zone for PS1

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Zolascius View Post
    People are saying that Immersion is a buzz word..

    I don't really think that's true. Immersion should be one of the most important aspects of an MMORPG, if not the most. 'Tough love' back in the day made you appreciate the stuff you got to do a lot more. Felt like you actually had to overcome things to get to places, instead of essentially playing inside a utopia.

    All in all, if the way the world works frustrates you, but you love it deep down, the developer is doing something right (IMO). But i'm sure the drive-thru raiders will disagree.
    It is a buzzword though.
    People throw it around, deciding that what they personally enjoy should be pushed onto everyone.
    Immersion is not universal, and how much someone will get immersed in any given content will vary quite considerably.
    Making something take longer will be seen by many as a chore.
    If you do not enjoy something, it is not immersive.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by FinalDestonaion View Post
    The only ones I miss are the quest lines for the mounts and pets. The rest can stay over there and rot.
    Amen, though I'm all for immersion, the stuff you want added is TOO immersive, to the point that it's ruining my fun.

    I'm glad they got rid of most of that stuff.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrayFox View Post
    Amen, though I'm all for immersion, the stuff you want added is TOO immersive, to the point that it's ruining my fun.

    I'm glad they got rid of most of that stuff.
    Yeah, the list was mostly just for fun/nostalgia. There are a few things I would take back, but most of it should stay gone

  8. #268
    Immersion IS in the game. It's the first boss of SoO. Jeez...some people...

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    Immersion IS in the game. It's the first boss of SoO. Jeez...some people...
    Ha, that's what I thought the thread was about in the first place... I was like "wut."

  10. #270
    Yeah, this game isn't for immersion. People play it for the "endgame", i.e. a minority of the player base who raids. Try TSW, SWTOR, or GW2 for immersion.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlayol View Post
    Yeah, this game isn't for immersion. People play it for the "endgame", i.e. a minority of the player base who raids. Try TSW, SWTOR, or GW2 for immersion.
    The entire purpose of an RPG is immersion. Though most people confuse immersion with lore.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    The entire purpose of an RPG is immersion. Though most people confuse immersion with lore.
    No, the entire purpose of any game is entertainment. Immersion is fine so long as it doesn't interfere with that goal. Examples of entertaining immersion include: realistic sounds, nice graphics, and good dialogue. Examples of annoying immersion include: separate skill grinds, hunger mechanics, realistic bag sizes, encumbrance, ammunition, perma-death, aging, and realistic travel times. If the entire purpose of an RPG is immersion why isn't the boat ride from Stormwind to Kalimdor taking you several months? Considering the amount of time you've spent on boats, shouldn't your character be a few hundred years old by now? Why hasn't old age sapped their strength yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  13. #273
    What originally attracted me to WoW was the immersion, which resulted from having a world that actually felt like a world. There was more content in the game than I could possibly do, so I didn't stress about "seeing all the content" and rather focused on exploring different aspects of the game and focusing on a few that I liked (5 mans + tradeskills). That filled my play times and I was happy. There was variety and I felt like I had read choices on how to play, and knew I has options to try different things in the future if my tastes changed (e.g., get into raiding or PvP).

    Today's WoW is streamlined and tightly controlled. You have no choice but to do the current patch's raid, because Blizzard decided that everyone needs to do the same content at the same time. The "choice" you get is how in how many difficulty modes you want to grind that same content. It's the same with things like questing. I've always disliked questing and in vanilla I probably did about 10 quests total. But then they decided everyone needs to do questing to "see the content" and made it into a mandatory on-the-rails experience (if you don't do all of it you will be in a crappy phase).

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    No, the entire purpose of any game is entertainment. Immersion is fine so long as it doesn't interfere with that goal. Examples of entertaining immersion include: realistic sounds, nice graphics, and good dialogue. Examples of annoying immersion include: separate skill grinds, hunger mechanics, realistic bag sizes, encumbrance, ammunition, perma-death, aging, and realistic travel times. If the entire purpose of an RPG is immersion why isn't the boat ride from Stormwind to Kalimdor taking you several months? Considering the amount of time you've spent on boats, shouldn't your character be a few hundred years old by now? Why hasn't old age sapped their strength yet?
    Playing Project Zomboid now, a zombie apocalypse RPG. And you know what, without hunger mechanics, bag sizes, encumbrance, ammunition and realistic travel times it would SUCK.

    We can agree that it depends on a game. Right now Blizzard is creating a game way different than back in 2005, so bringing back the "immersion aspects", like hunter ammo, keys, soul shards or vanilla-style dungeons is impossible. Everything is focused around a fixed goal, not a journey, making WoW less of a RPG and more of a multiplayer action game, with small doses of RPG in it. Which is better - asking this question is like comparing Call of Duty to Hearthstone.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    No, the entire purpose of any game is entertainment. Immersion is fine so long as it doesn't interfere with that goal. Examples of entertaining immersion include.....
    Entertainment is key, but your definition of it is hardly universal. The micromanagement factor is one of the selling points of more than a few titles in the RPG genre, and certainly makes itself evident in MMO's as well. Strip away enough of that, and you wind up with a game that is really more of an action title, and a pretty poor one at that.
    Last edited by melodramocracy; 2014-01-23 at 08:12 PM.

  16. #276
    Deleted
    If the entire purpose of an RPG is immersion why isn't the boat ride from Stormwind to Kalimdor taking you several months? Considering the amount of time you've spent on boats, shouldn't your character be a few hundred years old by now? Why hasn't old age sapped their strength yet?
    There's a difference between real-world immersion and fantastical immersion. Technical limitations also apply (the most obvious being Kalimdor and EK are separate maps)

    Graphics are not far and away the #1 immersion factor, imo. Here's a small list of things I think are above it:

    - Perceived scale (inc. Mount speed %, Flight time/%, Landmass)
    - Difficulty of content (inc. Exclusivity, High Workrate)
    - Setbacks

    Actually as a person who enjoys immersive environments; books, movies, worldbuilding etc. I would've liked the boat rides to be a lot longer. People just don't like difficulty anymore. Players these days just want the world to be their whored-out oyster.

  17. #277
    Deleted
    ... why... WHY would you resurrect this thread, OP?! You just couldn't leave it be, could you?
    Regardless how one looks, while few and I mean VERY FEW old ideas are good, the rest are simply god awful and it's a good thing they were removed.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Playing Project Zomboid now, a zombie apocalypse RPG. And you know what, without hunger mechanics, bag sizes, encumbrance, ammunition and realistic travel times it would SUCK.
    I stand corrected. However, those aspects are likely the focus of the game. I haven't played, but judging from other Zombie apocalyptic scenarios, your key goal is to live as long as possible without being mauled by a zombie. The goal of WoW is to participate in epic battles and take down world-sized threats. That involves much more travel than raiding the local convenience store for guns, ammo, and food so that you can escape death one more day. I guess it all depends on the scope of the RPG you're playing. I still don't think that any of those mechanics are right for a game like WoW. It's one thing to have to trek over to the convenience store to load up on ammo when the object of the game is to do just that. It's another to run out of ammo mid-raid, cause a wipe, and put a stop to the everyone's experience so that you can go back to the auction house to purchase a few more stacks of rounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  19. #279
    Deleted
    1.9
    The goal of WoW is to participate in epic battles and take down world-sized threats.
    2.4
    The goal of WoW is to participate in epic battles and take down world-sized threats.
    3.3
    The goal of WoW is to participate in epic battles & get epic loots for our item level.
    4.3
    Get epic loots for our item level, get dem numbers, get dem achievements.
    5.4
    Get epic loots via LFR for the noobs, get dem numbers, get dem achievements.
    Nobody cares about participation anymore. They care about their character's numerical progress and nothing else. There is no 'togetherness' in the struggle to get any achievable goal anymore. Players, especially on this forum made the game anti-social to the nth degree.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turmoill View Post
    ... why... WHY would you resurrect this thread, OP?! You just couldn't leave it be, could you?
    Regardless how one looks, while few and I mean VERY FEW old ideas are good, the rest are simply god awful and it's a good thing they were removed.
    I like to keep a good topic going. All the QQ on the front page made me sad and I wanted to wrap myself in something more positive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    No, the entire purpose of any game is entertainment. Immersion is fine so long as it doesn't interfere with that goal. Examples of entertaining immersion include: realistic sounds, nice graphics, and good dialogue. Examples of annoying immersion include: separate skill grinds, hunger mechanics, realistic bag sizes, encumbrance, ammunition, perma-death, aging, and realistic travel times. If the entire purpose of an RPG is immersion why isn't the boat ride from Stormwind to Kalimdor taking you several months? Considering the amount of time you've spent on boats, shouldn't your character be a few hundred years old by now? Why hasn't old age sapped their strength yet?
    Sadly, Lore never equals gameplay mechanics. If they did, I would toss out the Lore and go with the mechanics. You want a Draenei warlock? No prob. Poof. Here is a red skin option for your space goat. He is now Eredar, and you are a warlock. Makes the boat thing seem trivial.

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