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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Although my thread meets certain criteria according to the Wikki, it is not a troll thread. I was simply making a farce about immersion. Had people read everything including the last line in the OP, they would be joining me in the farce. As it stands, most of them trolled themselves. Personally, I miss every item on that list... and more.

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    How do you mean "people like the OP"? Pretty prejudicial since you don't even know me.
    OP - after reading your post (including the last line) and seeing everybody else's responses here... I can now FULLY understand why Mists of Pandaria has sadly become unpopular with a select and yet sizeable percent of the player base, despite it being an immersion-flowing culture-filled beautiful story-gem of an expansion.

    Sadly, I believe many of the people on these forums and in the game do not like to read or experience anything out of their comfort zone. period. =/
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
    You make it sound like all of these features were bugs or mistakes make by the developers when in reality it took more time to program and implement them then simply handing everything to players without the npcs/additional skills/mechanics etc. It was a conscious choice of the developers to put them in, that's how they wanted the game to be played and I can't understand how removing all of these restrictions/"inconviniences" can be called "improving" the game.
    Pretty much this. People on this forum talk a lot about improving the game or moving it forward, but Blizzards idea of innovation seems to be tearing out and watering down existing features.

  3. #83
    In this thread, we talk about how much we want hunters to turn into a marginalized class!

    Making me want to gouge my eyes out at the prospect of respeccing and having to sacrifice my own valuable bag space to store fucking ammunition doesn't make me feel immersed in the game, it makes me want to not bother, for the same reason I take the freeway if I need to travel more than 10 miles away instead of walking there myself. Sure, walking there would feel more fulfilling and I'd feel all accomplished with myself and proud for doing it, but I'm not going to do it, because it would be really god damn obnoxious.

    An example of immersion (for me at the very least) is when I can see details within details in the world, when I can walk into an inn and see tons of little nooks and crannies. The amount of detail that is present in MoP is absolutely staggering, especially compared to the old inns. For comparison's sake, let's go to one of the oldest, totally unchanged inns in the game: Razor Hill's inn. It's a barren, circular space with a rug and hammocks along the walls. So is almost every other orc inn around.

    Now walk into a Pandaria inn. Every single place has something in it, it's positively FILLED with stuff. Or walk into the inn in Valley of Strength in Org, which was totally redone in Cataclysm, and now has tons of details, plus a huge back row of bottles and drinks that make one think of a real, genuine bar.

    That's the kind of stuff that pumps up immersion for me. Blizzard could easily take it to the next step and add lots of elements to those details, so instead of simply being present in the world, if I wanted, I could sit my characters down at the bar and actually buy drinks from the tender in order to start a quest, instead of simply right clicking on the guy to get my quest.

    Immersion is in the detail, making me believe the world is alive. Not in making me wonder why I'm being punished so severely for wanting to respec, or why Blizzard specifically wants to punish anybody for rolling a hunter by removing their bagspace and making respeccing twice as difficult than it would be for every other class.

    Game mechanics should compliment immersion, not hinder it.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2013-12-23 at 09:53 PM.

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  4. #84
    Scarab Lord Superman-BladesEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
    You make it sound like all of these features were bugs or mistakes made by the developers when in reality it took more time to program and implement them than simply handing everything to players without the npcs/additional skills/mechanics etc. It was a conscious choice of the developers to put them in, that's how they wanted the game to be played and I can't understand how simply removing all of these restrictions/"inconviniences" can be called "improving" the game.
    Am beginning to see it is not just a clever name The purpose of my OP was to demonstrate that somethings made the game feel more real, but removing them did not make the game any less real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    In this thread, we talk about how much we want hunters to turn into a marginalized class!
    In this thread, I poke some fun at immersion and some folks take it way too seriously
    “You can disagree with another person's opinions. You can disagree with their doctrines.
    You can't disagree with their experience.”

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by gowron View Post
    Yep, improved it so much half the people playing it left.
    More then half the people currently playing have quit wow and you know damn well wow has had more then 30 million plus players. Wow isn't vacuum it isn't the same 12 million players each time their are thousand of reason they could have quit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ribald View Post
    Pretty much this. People on this forum talk a lot about improving the game or moving it forward, but Blizzards idea of innovation seems to be tearing out and watering down existing features.
    The reason they removed those features is convenience. Not because of innovation. 3 player instanced content that doesn't require a tank or healer is new, Dungeons with up scaled damage, timers, and leader boards are new. Pet battle are new so they add features dude. Achievements are new and so was reforging.
    Last edited by worstpvperus; 2013-12-23 at 10:14 PM.

  6. #86
    Immersion is only good the first time you do something.

    If I wanted true immersion, I would play a single-player game where it's better implemented, not an MMO where you have to go through the same, tiresome stuff every time you level or gear up a new character.

  7. #87
    Immersion? I kinda lost that since we got Phasing. Flying over somewhere and then returning to see totally different mobs than on the flightpath is so frustrating. It just doesn't feel like a world to me.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by sokrana View Post
    Immersion? I kinda lost that since we got Phasing. Flying over somewhere and then returning to see totally different mobs than on the flightpath is so frustrating. It just doesn't feel like a world to me.
    How does phasing drop immersion whole areas change because of it and they can change based on what part of the story you are on. If done right wouldn't that increase it?

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by worstpvperus View Post
    How does phasing drop immersion whole areas change because of it and they can change based on what part of the story you are on. If done right wouldn't that increase it?
    If the stuff wouldn't pop up seconds after I'm standing right next to it yes .. it just feels weird like that :P

  10. #90
    Thank you for giving a list of QOL improvements since vanilla. But none of this would increase "immersion" this is just another bring back vanilla wow thread cleverly disguised as a new topic and hidden behind a list.

  11. #91
    Stood in the Fire Doomthulsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

    1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
    2. Ammunition will make its return.
    3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.
    4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.
    5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.
    6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
    7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
    8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
    9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
    13. Guild perks will be removed
    14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
    15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.
    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
    18. Druids will be reduced to 3 specs which will once again combine Guardian and Feral into the original Cat/Bear combo.
    19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
    20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
    21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
    22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.
    23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
    25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

    Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

    *Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.
    1) NO.
    2) As long as you can buy it from an NPC vendor and not be at the mercy of the AH.
    3) NO.
    4) NO.
    5) NO.
    6) FUCK NO.
    7) Don't care.
    8) NO.
    9) FUCK NO.
    10) What for? She had no reason to be there once plainswalking was removed during beta.
    11) NO.
    12) NO.
    13) Ok this I agree with.
    14) NO.
    15) FUCK NO.
    16) FUCK NO x 10000.
    17) FUCK NO.
    18) Don't care.
    19) Don't care.
    20) NO.
    21) Don't care.
    22) FUCK NO.
    23) NO
    24) Don't care.
    25) FUCK NO.
    Last edited by Doomthulsa; 2013-12-23 at 10:24 PM.

  12. #92
    Pit Lord SL1200's Avatar
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    Bring back immersion by nerfing hunters!!!!!

    No your idea is awful.
    Online gold medalist astrologer

  13. #93
    "Immersion"...what a joke. I'd rather have compelling game mechanics. I have way more fun playing Minesweeper than "Immersive/Story Driven" games like SWTOR. If you want Immersion, read a book or see a movie. I play games to have fun. The success of games like the original Donkey Kong arcade, Pac Man, Pong, Mario, and fighting games (e.g. Street Fighter, KoF, KI) has nothing to do with Immersion. I wish game discussions would purge "Immersion" from its vocabulary.

    In regards to OP, I would like to see most of whats on the list reimplemented, but not because of "Immersion". There is a lot of mechanics that, since WoW's release, have been oversimplified/homogenized. Complexity is something WoW could use a lot more of since Blizzard has used the last 9 or so years of development to corrode the game down to a grey inedible paste.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    That's an odd assessment.
    How is it an odd assesment? Do you honestly think hunters will agree to N°1&2??

    N°4 is from the stone ages, who the hell wants to do that, not to mention, it doesn't add anything to the game except that you have spend some time hitting a random mob that doesn't kill you to level this... I remember doing this against some bugged mob & going afk for 30 minutes in vanilla

    N°5,7,8,16 are just "let's fill our bag space with useless things, especially N°8, we can summon mounts, spells out of no where, but blessing someone with Blessing of Might requires a stone??

    N°12 is just plain stupid, either the patrols have to respawn every 2 minutes to get behind you, or they'll never be an issue & therefor shouldn't be in the dungeon...

    N°15 clearly shows you must play on a dead realm, sorry but if everyone from Twisting Nether was on 1 AH, people would have fps lagg like hell, did you even put some thought in half of these changes or did you just want to make some random conversation?

    N°18 & N°25 Just shows how little you want the game to be balanced, why not do it one step further like Vanilla, Only Shamans have Bloodlust -> Every PvE'r goes Horde. Maybe only make 1 spec viable for raiding & 1/2 spec for PvP, oh wait that one would actually help balance the game, never mind!

    N°22 is another example of how little thought you put into this, people that have heal / dps / tank roles now have to go back to cities everytime they want to change to HELP a raid / group??

    N°23 is sad that you want that back, it was basicly: You play Fire mage? These are your best talents, no discussion. Why even have the talents when you can't choose?

    With all that I mention above, I would think you are just trolling, however you mentioned some decent things too:

    N°6 Yes, attunements should be back, even if it's just a quest that teaches players NOT to stand in fire...
    N°9 Flying should be gone in general, just have more & faster flightpaths
    N°11 Yes totally bring back group quests! Ring of blood was awesome!
    N°17 That's how they should get them! And you forgot shaman totems imo!
    N°20 is one that has a double-edge, I agree that we should learn spells from Trainers, but than most area's need to have trainers since no1 wants to fly back from Tanaris to Orgrimmar to learn a new spell!
    N°24 Is something I would adjust thou: have them do a quest to discover the poison once, than they can always add it on a weapon

    So in conclusion; for RP players all these rules might stick, but in the general wow population, it'll be less than 1% who would want them all!

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    In this thread, I poke some fun at immersion and some folks take it way too seriously
    Immersion should be taken seriously though, as it has a major impact on how a game is designed, how it's played, and how it's enjoyed.

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  16. #96
    A lot of those things would ruin immersion. You know what immersion is? Forgetting you're playing a game.

    I like things as they are.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    A million times no! I remember having to stop a raid halfway to go outside and farm shards so we could continue. Yeah, truly a lot of fun!

  18. #98
    Epic! vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post
    Raiding in BC I had to log on sometimes up to 2 hours early to fill my *three* soul bags with soulshards so I could summon people, not every warlock did it, but every warlock would take shit about how they can't summon if they didn't. Even worse though, lets assume that this isn't your goal and you want them to just be items again instead of a resource bar. Does this mean that you want warlocks to have to farm trash inbetween *every* *single* *wipe*? Is that what you call immersion when your raid wipes and one or more of your players must now hearth and go farm basic trash for shards so they can maximize their damage next attempt?
    I do agree that farming Soul Shards was painful back then. But that doesn't mean it should be removed. Why not give warlocks a curse that every spec would use for dps purposes and that grants a soul shard when the mob dies? It makes it much easier that way... And just make it the way soul shards worked in TBC, where they didn't provide much boost to your dps.

    But anyway, if you were out farming only soul shards before the raid, you must have been doing something wrong... As I seem to remember there were a lot of dailies who required you to kill mobs... So could you not have done your dailies and got a couple of bags worth of shards?



    I don't know if I agree with some of those suggestions but I do know WoW has become extremely boring for me. There just is no diversity between classes except melee and ranged and hunters... Kinda really boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    A million times no! I remember having to stop a raid halfway to go outside and farm shards so we could continue. Yeah, truly a lot of fun!
    Ummm... No you don't?
    First, shards weren't used in your rotation. They were used for pets, summons, soulstone and soul shatter, I believe.
    Second, why would you go outside? Did trash packs give you no shards? Or am I missing something?
    And even though it's reached new heights, I rather like the restless nights. It makes me wonder, makes me think there's more to this, I'm on the brink. It's not the fear of what's beyond, it's just that I might not respond! I have an interest, almost craving, would I like to get to far in?!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Convenience > Immersion. I'm playing a game, not living a second life. Maybe do this for RP servers.
    You play a RPG game intending to no spend time and effort into it. LOGIC. It's like expecting becoming a engineer without education, or a doctor without education. And before you say it's a game. Yes, but there's a ton out there that spend more hours than you on it and treat it otherwise, so just because you don't got time and many other it's not supposed to be balance around you guys. There's other games.

  20. #100
    I don't like most of that, but there are a few that I think are important.

    #17 - With regard to class mounts, players should always have to do a quest to get them, as they are technically cosmetic. It makes no sense to me that they are offered automatically, and is also inconsistent on Blizzard's part; for example, it heavily contradicts their current stance on transmogging legendaries.

    #19 - Class quests that grant you animal forms, elemental totems, demonic summonings, etc. are all great RPG elements. I'd love to see them return somehow.

    #20 - Trainer NPCs have never felt good for immersion to me. They just "bless" you with abilities, which is actually immersion breaking in some cases (Warlocks, for instance). Maybe if the learning particle effects were unique for each class, then it would be 'okay', but it's still wonky. I think maybe spell books themselves could be class-themed, and the explanation for learning abilities on the fly is that you are 'studying' it and learning from it. Using Warlocks again, your spell book UI would look like a grimoire, with spells you haven't learned yet listed as indecipherable demonic runes. Warriors could have something like crude pictograms of combat stances, attack forms, etc.

    #23 - Only if the current talent system stays in also, with a separate talent point resource to spend on them. Both are flawed on their own, but together they add a great amount of depth to character customization.

    #25 - While I actually agree with this idea, and would go further to say that mages and warlocks should've been faction restricted as well, it's one of those things that will absolutely never happen, so it's pointless to want or suggest it even hypothetically.
    Last edited by Elementalkin; 2013-12-24 at 12:28 AM.

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