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  1. #141
    Immersion is a personal experience, not something you can simply say is created by a certain feature.
    Some people like ground mounts for exploration, some people like flying mounts.
    It is about an enjoyable experience, which will vary from one person to the next.

    Forced interaction with something a player does not enjoy is not going to make it immersive for them.

    Convenience when done right can improve the immersion, can reduce tedious or fiddly aspects that simply get in the way of actually playing.
    But in the end it won't suit everyone, so anybody who calls on a certain feature to be a certain way, and against the wishes of other because they deem it "more immersive" is simply being selfish.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch. Yes to quiver, no to giving up bag space... there is no point in that.
    2. Ammunition will make its return. Sure.
    5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away. Eh, why not. Might make fishing worth something again.
    6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck. All for it.
    7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire. That's fine. Petty, but fine.
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale Don't remember who that is or the significance, but sure.
    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them. YES.
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning Was never a big factor in dungeons except maybe BRD. Definitely add faster trash respawns in raids.
    13. Guild perks will be removed Sure to mass res and anywhere guild bank, but the others don't break immersion.
    14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3. Was annoying, but sure.
    15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each. Fine.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means. Mounts are cheap nowadays, so I am fine with that.
    19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet. Sure for the first time you play that class.
    20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer. Seems you never have to go to cities when leveling nowadays. I am fine with this.
    22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time. But how do I just magically forget everything about healing when I am dpsing and have to go get training in it again? I just healed 2 hours ago! This change is less immersive.
    23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class There has always been cookie cutter specs. Nothing immersive here.
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them. Make it more interesting than going to vendor and buying some stuff then.

    Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.
    A lot of the suggestions had nothing to do immersion and thus the reason they were changed to be more convenient. Making a player do something just to do it is pretty lazy game design, and blizzard realized it. Could they have changed some things to make them more interesting? Sure. Things like having a lock farm a couple shards 10 minutes before the raid just so he could make a soul well and summoning stone was worthless.

  3. #143
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Yeah im not giving up a bag slot for arrows, to hell with that. Although I do agree that convenience is and has ruined immersion.

    Now what I dont mind is a hunter overhaul, where arrows become something akin to power ups. But sadly theres no blue moons out so I doubt we'll ever see anything more than bandaid after bandaid.

    I feel as though you should have mentioned the theft of hunter melee weapons in there as well. That for me destroyed a major aspect of the class, and I felt robbed when they removed them and the associating skills. I dont think they've done 1 thing ive enjoyed to the hunter class in the last few years except maybe Stampede. But they fucking made that boring as well by removing the customisation.
    Last edited by Tommo; 2013-12-24 at 03:25 AM.

  4. #144
    1. No.
    2. No.
    3. Yes
    4. No.
    5. Yes for hunter pets, but that's excessive for battle pets.
    6. Yes.
    7. Yes.
    8. Yes.
    9. Absolutely no need at all. You can't fly until 60 anyway, and by the time you can, you aren't likely to go back to lower zones anyway.
    10. Don't care either way.
    11. Yes.
    12. Yes, and they won't be shortened anymore, like Wailing Caverns etc.
    13. Why? There is no need for that.
    14. No.
    15. No. Again, totally no need.
    16. Don't care either way.
    17. Yes.
    18. Yes.
    19. Yes, but not for Hunters.
    20. Undecided.
    21. Undecided.
    22. No.
    23. No freakin way, but something that allowed for hybrids to return would be nifty.
    24. Yes.
    25. No freakin way.
    'Words do not win wars. That is a tragedy.'

  5. #145
    You know, a lot of the "inconveniences" could be fixed without removing them.

    Soul Shards? Let them stack to 256. Only used for CD type spells like (the current) Doomguard.

    Ammo? Quiver? The quiver should be build into the Hunter class capable of storing 4 billion arrows (practically infinite). Ammo of course still has to be bought/crafted. Speaking of crafting ... Hunters should be able to craft their own arrows - seriously what kind of "survivalist" hunter can't craft their own ammo?

    Edit: OK the above might still be problematic. I think the problem is, none of the activities above a "optional" (you will burn DPS CDs, you will use ammo). Ideally "inconveniences" should be something that makes life easier vs being "lazy" and do it the brute force way.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-12-24 at 03:27 AM.

  6. #146
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    I think OP is confused about what the word 'immersion' means...

    Oops, well that list was so idiotic, I didn't make it to the end of his post.
    Last edited by Arganis; 2013-12-24 at 03:45 AM.

  7. #147
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Danger Zone
    Immersion is subjective and there's still plenty in the game without making it clunky and inconvenient for players who aren't interested in immersion. Sure I love a game that can pull me into the world, but I'm also well aware that I'm a super minority which is why I've taken it upon myself to get my OWN immersion out of my MMOs rather than demand changes that millions of other people would dislike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arganis View Post
    I think OP is confused about what the word 'immersion' means...
    He's also joking as he stated in the OP.
    Mountains rise in the distance stalwart as the stars, fading forever.
    Roads ever weaving, soul ever seeking the hunter's mark.

    Formerly Ryngo Blackratchet

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    WoW is the wrong game for you. MMORPG the last 3 letters stand for roleplaying game, which are based on immersion.

    You miss the point that the revolving the discussion around "Immersion" is Red Herring that distracts the conversation from what is really important. Path of Exile is a great game that has nothing to do with Immersion. Diablo 3 was a huge fail that has nothing to do with Immersion. Both are RPGs (which stands for roleplaying game) and the success/failure of each is completely independent of Immersion. Instead of having a conversation about "Immersion" in games lets talk about difficulty, re-playability, complexity, visceral enjoyment, art styles/graphics, and even story telling to name just a few.

    Immersion is an elusive term that means different things to different people. Is fish swimming out of your way when you pass by "Immersion"? Are more realistic graphics "Immersion"? Are cartoony/stylized art styles non-"Immersive"? Are card games "Immersive"? Is the board game Monopoly "Immersive"? Is playing basketball "Immersive"?

    Is "Immersion" really what you want game developers to focus on?

  9. #149
    hmm, let me see..I Always liked the idea of attunements and keys for dungeons and raids, it would be awesome if they bring back this system, but improved, Blizzard learned so much over the years that they could create something interesting now, not annoying and boring..

    Class quest such as Shaman Totens, Warlock Demons, Paladin Mount, Druid forms was amazing, and it would be awesome to have them back in the game, but, again, improved...

    Hidden quests and random chests and treasures around the maps has my vote..

    Elite Mobs that require a group is an interesting idea, but it won't work, ppl need a motivation...better loot maybe...Way better...

    More difficult low level dungeons, yeah, we really need this.

    And when you join a 10-60 battleground they should provide you good weapons and armors till the end of the battle, it is ridiculous how unbalanced the PVP is because of players using heirloom..One shot kill isn't fun..

  10. #150
    I love the ppl saying the stuff they liked about the op considering even he says its a joke post at the end...

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by FLstudioApprentice View Post
    You just went full retard, I want to play a game, I don't want to feed 200+ pets every hour because they hungry, I don't want to click 3 times to get a mining node, I don't want to spend a bagspace for my ammo pouch -> more time flying to the bank 'nd shit, dual spec being removed? Nah, I respec like 2x each hour, don't want to spend that much gold/time traveling/respeccing.

    I do agree with some notes on the list, but not with all of 'em.
    Not once did I suggest the changes to be undone, nor any of the changes you have written in your raging post . Merely catering to your 'convenience needs'

    Blizzard is fully capable of being a literal wish genie, just look at the beginning of Cata

  12. #152
    To be honest, I support all those things the OP mentioned.

  13. #153
    They wont' make shamans and pallys faction specific, but agree with most of the list.
    A critical look at game balance

  14. #154
    the pointless quests, loot grinding, multiple tiers to traverse, were what made this game interesting, now ding 90, never leave the capital city as you can get fully gear, cap professions, run dungeons and raids without having to put any thought into what your doing, specs are simplified to the point that its impossible to have an edge over an idiot who rolls a bad spec, and now with the announced expansion they are removing more stats from the game, The magic is gone, and people realize this, in game store added people saying its a good thing, yet when all the other mmos did it the same community said it was because they flopped. its sad

    I dont believe anyone actually logs into wow and has a 100% enjoyable experience, instead the log in because they spent so much time building there character that they cant face seeing the character fall behind, the cling to past experiences when the game was actually fun - remember raiding ulduar to get gear for icc - fun
    remember getting into that nax pug with those cool guys who invited you to their guild after, fun -the five mans with friends to gear up alts - fun.
    all these experiences are gone from the game, replaced with clicking a button and waiting in a queue, the people in the groups may aswell be bots.
    And most hardcore guilds now are not made up of friends who are passionate about playing, but instead a group of mercenary raiders, who will jump ship when they get the next ach or bit of gear, only invited to the guild because of past conquests

    its really a shame, i had much fun playing this game, but they removed immersion, dare I say all the fun menial tasks, and replaced it with something worse.
    people arguing that convenience is better - bullcrap, its convenient to eat fast food, but its utter shit, home cooked meal isnt convenient, but its healthy and satisfies.
    currently wow does not satisfy my mmo itch, and i dont think it will again

  15. #155
    Despite being an experiment aimed at something else, I would say it achieved something fairly unusual.
    It got a majority of posters discussing, and generally agreeing on how the game has moved forward.
    Makes a nice change from the typical childish bashing of pandaren, casuals or any of the usual bandwagons.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Despite being an experiment aimed at something else, I would say it achieved something fairly unusual.
    It got a majority of posters discussing, and generally agreeing on how the game has moved forward.
    Makes a nice change from the typical childish bashing of pandaren, casuals or any of the usual bandwagons.
    Off a cliff ...

  17. #157
    The mere thought of farming shards against makes me want to punch something incredibly cute, I don't care what it is. Anything adorable would get coldcocked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Off a cliff ...
    ...then performing a sick double-gainer into a hotspring of awesomeness.


  18. #158
    To be blunt, quite a few people would like to see those things highlighted by the OP put back.

    The only problem is, when they are mandatory they just become PITA loops to jump through.

    Hunters should be able to craft[1] special arrows and what not, however they only work against specific mobs in an area but they are super effective.

    This give players a choice,
    - Use normal arrows and do it the "hard way".
    - Use specially prepared arrows, easier during the fight but more work upfront.

    Ties perfectly into immersion.

    If the hunter is ultra skilled or geared, he can forgo the special arrows - it's already easy enough for him.

    Every class could have some variation of this - or share the same "special arrow" if Blizzard is lazy.

    [1] Recipes can be learned from the locals and materials gather from the surrounding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    ...and performing a sick double-gainer into a hotspring of awesomeness.
    ... breaking it neck.

    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-12-24 at 04:45 AM.

  19. #159
    Mechagnome Time Sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Behind you! Turn around!
    ...Heck no. I've played a hunter. I Play a warlock. Ammo and shards where't Immersion, they were annoying crap you had to deil with that took up your inventory. The other things on the list are similar. Annoying crap.

  20. #160
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    In the state of Denial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    This list proves how much Cata and MoP improved the game.
    I tend to agree. WoW is a fantasy game, I don't see any particular reason to force it to emulate reality. Further, I don't really see how farming adds to the game, I really don't. Oh, I ran out of magic fairy dust, now I've got to go back to that place I hate and farm that same mob everyone else is farming and spend hours upon hours doing nothing of interest. Do people really find that sort of stuff fun? Because IMO: those sorts of things are what leads to botting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

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