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  1. #161
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

    1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
    2. Ammunition will make its return.
    3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.

    4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.
    5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.
    6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
    7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
    8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
    9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
    13. Guild perks will be removed
    14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
    15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.
    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
    18. Druids will be reduced to 3 specs which will once again combine Guardian and Feral into the original Cat/Bear combo.
    19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
    20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
    21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
    22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.
    23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
    25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

    Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

    *Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.

    with how raids are you pretty much just broke hunters. go away. going back to the stone age of wow ;_;
    Last edited by Redpanda; 2013-12-24 at 05:13 AM.
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
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  2. #162
    I had no idea immersion was synonymous to annoyance.

  3. #163
    The only one I'd actually like to see is flight removed, that's really the main thing that killed immersion. Well, that and LFD/LFR etc.

  4. #164
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    Convenience is rarely the ally of Entertainment. Things are much more rewarding and worthwhile when you've worked hard for them, agreed, but there is a thin line that takes years to get right. Blizzard have certainly moved in the right direction over the years. Not suggesting they've got it quite right for all aspects of their game, some cases they've gone too far, but overall it's far better today.

    Games need to be accessible, for a whole host of reasons that would be worthy of their own interesting thread, but remember, games are no longer confined to the few elite of the world, they're now designed for the majority. While it's great to include immersion, if that immersion turns off 90% of your customer base, you won't have a game at all.
    I still stand that Wrath did it best
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  5. #165
    Herald of the Titans zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.
    6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
    7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
    8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
    9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
    13. Guild perks will be removed
    14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
    19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
    20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
    21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
    25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.
    I would have no problem with Blizz implementing these^ again. I would even take #9 a bit further and remove flying mount completely.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Time Sage View Post
    ...Heck no. I've played a hunter. I Play a warlock. Ammo and shards where't Immersion, they were annoying crap you had to deil with that took up your inventory. The other things on the list are similar. Annoying crap.
    They were immersion insofar that your character required a modicum of maintenance as well as (admittedly trivial) decision making, something this game seems to treat as a 'very bad thing'.
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  7. #167
    You really seem to be confusing qualities of life with immersion and game depth...

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I tend to agree. WoW is a fantasy game, I don't see any particular reason to force it to emulate reality. Further, I don't really see how farming adds to the game, I really don't. Oh, I ran out of magic fairy dust, now I've got to go back to that place I hate and farm that same mob everyone else is farming and spend hours upon hours doing nothing of interest. Do people really find that sort of stuff fun? Because IMO: those sorts of things are what leads to botting.
    Elemental Plateau was a blast because it created so much pvp and led to people getting out in the world and meeting people. I still talk to people I met out there from both factions (the ones that still play anyway). That's a good example of why yes, it's a good thing. Don't have time to do it? You probably shouldn't be playing MMO's or at least you shouldn't expect to be playing at any decent level since you can't dedicate the time required to do so anyway.

    Wow being a fantasy game has nothing to do with the fact that farming is a mechanic that helps several things: keeping the economy in check, getting people out of cities and into the world, giving people something to do in their off time, etc. It has uses, don't discount it because it's boring sometimes, because EVERYTHING is boring sometimes, just in different ways. Removing the need to farm or even leave cities in MMOs is bad design.

    Oh and also botting from back in vanilla/BC was good because after that they stopped using farming bots and started hacking accounts because it was more profitable.

  9. #169
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    In short: and let's reverse most of changes done to this game, bringing back chores and penalties for choosing certain classes. Fuck hunters in particular. How is it not possible to shoot point blank? I thought that shoving a rifle in the enemy's face before pulling the trigger is benefical for the damage.
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  10. #170
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Immersion starts with the player. If players don't want to let themselves be immersed no amount of forcing crap down their throats them will make them feel "immersed". All your suggestions are not seen as immersive by the majority of players but rather as a time/space wasting burden, such as carrying ammunition, other things are just stupid like bringing back raid/dungeon attunement, "original talent trees" which weren't tweaking shit, or faction specific classes which cannot ever be balanced and racials are favouring the shit faction enough as it is, and then there are things that make no sense at all, like dead zones. Dead zones never existed for any ranged small arms at any point in time in the history of their existence.

    Your list isn't immersion, it's nostalgic bullshit you want to force on a playerbase that sees it as tired, uninteresting or just down right shitty. You want immersion, make it for yourself, roleplay, don't force garbage on people.
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  11. #171
    Epic! Zaxio's Avatar
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    Some hunters really need pet prequest to learn to not use taunt of their pets

  12. #172
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    They were immersion insofar that your character required a modicum of maintenance as well as (admittedly trivial) decision making, something this game seems to treat as a 'very bad thing'.
    Resource management is put into the rotation rather than relying on farming or having a profession. How was carrying around a 16 slot bag full of stacks of ammunition anything worthwhile?
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
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  13. #173
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    In this thread, we talk about how much we want hunters to turn into a marginalized class!

    Making me want to gouge my eyes out at the prospect of respeccing and having to sacrifice my own valuable bag space to store fucking ammunition doesn't make me feel immersed in the game, it makes me want to not bother, for the same reason I take the freeway if I need to travel more than 10 miles away instead of walking there myself. Sure, walking there would feel more fulfilling and I'd feel all accomplished with myself and proud for doing it, but I'm not going to do it, because it would be really god damn obnoxious.

    An example of immersion (for me at the very least) is when I can see details within details in the world, when I can walk into an inn and see tons of little nooks and crannies. The amount of detail that is present in MoP is absolutely staggering, especially compared to the old inns. For comparison's sake, let's go to one of the oldest, totally unchanged inns in the game: Razor Hill's inn. It's a barren, circular space with a rug and hammocks along the walls. So is almost every other orc inn around.

    Now walk into a Pandaria inn. Every single place has something in it, it's positively FILLED with stuff. Or walk into the inn in Valley of Strength in Org, which was totally redone in Cataclysm, and now has tons of details, plus a huge back row of bottles and drinks that make one think of a real, genuine bar.

    That's the kind of stuff that pumps up immersion for me. Blizzard could easily take it to the next step and add lots of elements to those details, so instead of simply being present in the world, if I wanted, I could sit my characters down at the bar and actually buy drinks from the tender in order to start a quest, instead of simply right clicking on the guy to get my quest.

    Immersion is in the detail, making me believe the world is alive. Not in making me wonder why I'm being punished so severely for wanting to respec, or why Blizzard specifically wants to punish anybody for rolling a hunter by removing their bagspace and making respeccing twice as difficult than it would be for every other class.

    Game mechanics should compliment immersion, not hinder it.
    This wise man speaks the truth.

  14. #174
    There is no middle finger big enough.
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  15. #175
    Bloodsail Admiral Bumbasta's Avatar
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    remove LFR, LFG and the PvP queue interface system (just walk to the entrance of the PvP battleground to queue).
    "This is no swaggering askari, no Idi Amin Dada, heavyweight boxing champion of the King's African Rifles, nor some wide shouldered, medal-strewn Nigerian general. This is an altogether more dangerous dictator - an intellectual, a spitefull African Robespierre who has outlasted them all." - The Fear: Robert Mugabe and the martyrdom of Zimbabwe, Peter Godwin.

  16. #176
    Bloodsail Admiral Caylis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

    1......

    Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

    *Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.
    Left in what I thought was acceptable...

    As you can see I like the way the game is going. All of those were a pain in the ass and had literally zero to do with "immersion".

  17. #177
    I really like the list, but it's describing World of Warcraft as a base game; when it was classic. Not that it is a bad thing in particular, but it's hardly original and completely immersive. I don't agree with removing dual specialization, as if you were to return to a more RPG style-isque game you wouldn't have easy to obtain alt-sets. Meaning you wouldn't be a jack of all trades without having a shit ton of effort put into it. Regardless, many people either wouldn't care for it, or hate the ideas you put (Copied) forth. Even the ones who never played classic will bash it.
    Hearts are man kinds lock. If only everyone's emotions were a skeleton key, this world would be a happier place.

  18. #178
    ... Odd, it says pandarian monk but you're feeling more like a troll.
    Is this where the header goes?

  19. #179
    Scarab Lord Satan's Avatar
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    All those ideas are horrible.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
    Maybe if they were for new mounts stuff like the Green fire warlock quest.
    pro-gun liberal

  20. #180
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    These little waste of time things were in game when there wasn't enough content to stand on its own. As the content grew, the time sinks shrank. They are gone for a reason, and that reason is they are terrible design. I would like to see class quests make a return, but the rest of that list is full of brick walls meant to extend gameplay.
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