Dungeon loot restriction - 5 man heroics

[Jtbrig7390]

They coded the meaning of a word out of the game?

Original Term for Ninja Looting is someone who steals loot.

Rolling Need on a item is not this since you are able to roll Need on the item. Therefor its not Ninja Looting. Everything blizzard has said aside it still dose not fit within the original term therefor its not Ninja Looting.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Original Term for Ninja Looting is someone who steals loot.

Rolling Need on a item is not this since you are able to roll Need on the item. Therefor its not Ninja Looting. Everything blizzard has said aside it still dose not fit within the original term therefor its not Ninja Looting.

Wait, did you invent the term ninja looting? You are able to do something, so that makes it okay? I can curse at you in a game, does that make it okay?

[Jtbrig7390]

I done already told you cletus, Blizzard does not define what words mean.

And I done told you rolling Need on a item is not stealing it therefor its not Ninja Looting.

If you are going to use the term then know what it means. You saying people rolling Need on items is Ninja Looting is just as bad as people calling others Hipsters when they disagree with something.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, did you invent the term ninja looting? You are able to do something, so that makes it okay? I can curse at you in a game, does that make it okay?

Nope just been playing MMO's and ARPG's that did co-op for many years and the term has stayed the same.

But feel free to tell me what you think it means and ill tell you how rolling Need on a item dose not count as Ninja Looting.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

And I done told you rolling Need on a item is not stealing it therefor its not Ninja Looting.

If you are going to use the term then know what it means. You saying people rolling Need on items is Ninja Looting is just as bad as people calling others Hipsters when they disagree with something.

1) I didn't say steal.
2) You should know what the term means. Blizzard does not make the word.

Looting specific items off enemies that the player's own party defeated before the party has formally decided who should do so, or in direct contradiction to a decision that someone else should loot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_(gaming)

So yeah, a huntard needing on a Str ring just so he can pass an LFR ilvl check is ninja looting. Please stop done telling me things, cletus. You don't even know what you are talkin' bout'.

[Jtbrig7390]

1) I didn't say steal.
2) You should know what the term means. Blizzard does not make the word.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_(gaming)

So yeah, a huntard needing on a Str ring just so he can pass an LFR ilvl check is ninja looting. Please stop done telling me things, cletus. You don't even know what you are talkin' bout'.

Your own link disagree's with you LOL.

To use your Quote

Looting specific items off enemies that the player's own party defeated before the party has formally decided who should do so, or in direct contradiction to a decision that someone else should loot.

In the case of WOW LFD pugs the decision is up to the loot system AKA the Need/Greed system. Therefor when someone like the hunter who rolled need on a str ring dose and wins its decided that he gets the item. The party formally decides on a item with the Need/Greed system and he rolled Need and won.

Therefor he is not a Ninja Looter. Try Again.

[Barnabas]

People seriously try to gear up in 5 man dungeons at 90 now in 5.4? Something is really wrong here if that is what the OP is doing.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Your own link disagree's with you LOL.

To use your Quote In the case of WOW LFD pugs the decision is up to the loot system AKA the Need/Greed system. Therefor when someone like the hunter who rolled need on a str ring dose and wins its decided that he gets the item. The party formally decides on a item with the Need/Greed system and he rolled Need and won.

Therefor he is not a Ninja Looter. Try Again.

False, the quote says party not loot system. Please stop lying.

[Aquamonkey]

False, the quote says party not loot system. Please stop lying.

And the party agreed to use that loot system when they queued up for LFD. If they wanted a different loot system, they should have formed a 5-man group and walked to the instance.

[Jtbrig7390]

False, the quote says party not loot system. Please stop lying.

Did you not read it all or you really trying to troll???

It says

Looting specific items off enemies that the player's own party defeated before the party has formally decided who should do so, or in direct contradiction to a decision that someone else should loot.

Now pay attion to the bolded part. In the case of LFD in WOW the deciding factor is not the party itself but the loot system inplace and its the Need/Greed System. Therefor if someone is able to roll need on a item its not Ninja Looting.

From the underlined part all the way to the end it is meaning if someone like myself looted all the items after a kill and didn't not give them out based on the decision of the group. This is one of the reasons why people don't like the ML system because whoever is ML is in charge of loot and its rules.

The Party agree's to use the Need/Greed system each time they do a LFD therefor if a hunter rolls need on a str ring and wins he did not ninja loot since the whole group agreed to the Need/Greed System by default.

Don't like the Need/Greed system make a 5 man and go to the dungeon yourself.

If you are going to use a Quote use the whole dam thing not just the part that fits your argument.

[Deleted]

I think (and hope) personal loot will replace ALL other loot mechanism when in a group. Why? Because its better!
In every little aspect of the game.

The Need/Greed system was flawed from the very start and master looter makes it worse actually.
It requires cooperative players, yet its mostly used with random people. Raids use master looter.

And all the fancy distribution Systems for guilds are also flawed. DKP rewards showing up more than being effective.
And while it is quite random, it still brings up drama with the whole "bidding others up" stuff. And it can hinder your progress.

Well loot council can help you progress faster, by assigning gear to the right people. And its so much fun, to sit through 3 hours of discussion of the Guild Masters Wife should get that ring for the 6 ilvl's or that new shami that outheals everyone in blue gear.
And it never introduces drama, because that other guy deserves it so much more than you. Right? Right!

In ANY loot System the Bad Guy is a member of your group, that is supposed to be cooperative, yet needs to compete. For meters and for loot.

On personal loot the bad guy is blizzard. Not getting anything? Well, you get some gold and maybe a pet.
And thats why its the best system. It cuts the drama entirely and puts the blame on the RNG, that everybody hates anyways.

The only question i have is why it took so long to come up with it and why it takes so long to roll it out everywhere.

[Mormolyce]

If only they had gone with the theory that the true ending was Shep still being alive and it was all an indoctrination attempt.

I think the fact that people thought that an awful, awful ending like that would've been preferable is just a sign of how terrible the actual ending was.

They can/do define what is considered Ninja Looting in there game tho and they have done said its not.

Doesn't mean it's not ninjaing, just means it's not the kind that they take action against.

[Barnabas]

I think (and hope) personal loot will replace ALL other loot mechanism when in a group. Why? Because its better!
In every little aspect of the game.

The Need/Greed system was flawed from the very start and master looter makes it worse actually.
It requires cooperative players, yet its mostly used with random people. Raids use master looter.

And all the fancy distribution Systems for guilds are also flawed. DKP rewards showing up more than being effective.
And while it is quite random, it still brings up drama with the whole "bidding others up" stuff. And it can hinder your progress.

Well loot council can help you progress faster, by assigning gear to the right people. And its so much fun, to sit through 3 hours of discussion of the Guild Masters Wife should get that ring for the 6 ilvl's or that new shami that outheals everyone in blue gear.
And it never introduces drama, because that other guy deserves it so much more than you. Right? Right!

In ANY loot System the Bad Guy is a member of your group, that is supposed to be cooperative, yet needs to compete. For meters and for loot.

On personal loot the bad guy is blizzard. Not getting anything? Well, you get some gold and maybe a pet.
And thats why its the best system. It cuts the drama entirely and puts the blame on the RNG, that everybody hates anyways.

The only question i have is why it took so long to come up with it and why it takes so long to roll it out everywhere.

I prefer loot council actually. I had some issues with loot going to the wrong people in the past that hindered progress in 2 or 3 guilds I was in. It's just all part of being in a shitty guild. Once you do some guild hopping and get in a decent guild that actually has good leadership you won't see that ring going to gm's wife and that shaman wouldn't be outhealing anyone because if it's not the first raid of an expansion that shaman wouldn't be in the main raid. Just gotta get out of the "family" guild scene and things improve.

[AVPaul]

Str item could be upgrade for hunter, but we all know, that he will never equip it. Stats, like haste, attractive for tanks - is due to Blizzard, trying to homogenize itemization via killing dedicated tank-specific items. They just want players to have as much competition for loot as possible, i.e. to slow players' progression as much as they can. But we should not debate about it. Why? Individual loot will be implemented very soon. And this fact itself is the best prove, that old system is massively flawed. So stop this "Blizzard said this" or "Blizzard said that": "Need before Greed" system is already proven to be wrong for random players. You should remember, that "Need before Greed" system was used in organized groups in the past, that could agree about loot distribution by themselves - there wasn't "Need" restrictions for example. And all players agreed about "Main spec priority" system. The fact, that the same system is used for random players without taking into account, that random players are selfish and can't agree about loot distribution (every player will always think, that he deserves this loot the most) - shows extreme developers' laziness. Unreasonable amount of competition is just profitable for them, cuz it slows down players' progression. So, "Need before Greed" system is already proven to be wrong, but Blizzard have to defend it before they will implement personal loot, cuz otherwise they'll have to solve every loot dispute manually via ticket. So stop referring to this blueposts. All, that is said there - is that Blizzard are declining all responsibility for current loot system being flawed.

[Cernunnos]

Str item could be upgrade for hunter, but we all know, that he will never equip it.

If it's a ring or trinket maybe, but they can still roll Need on melee weapons. No way in hell is a hunter going to equip a melee weapon in an actual instance, he won't be able to shoot anything. So why can they still roll Need on them.

Fix the bullshit. I can live with losing what is a MS roll for me to someone's OS, but to lose to what is essentially someone's "vendor spec" that shit pisses me off.

[AVPaul]

You should clearly understand, that "Need before Greed" - is not really a loot system at all. It's just a tool to distribute loot, that, of course, can't be wrong from Blizzard's point of view. Loot system for this tool - is system, that players are agree about. It was ok for organized groups, cuz there was also a tools for punishing those players, who don't agree about commonly accepted loot rules - i.e. kicking, putting into server-wide blacklist, etc. But now, in random groups, "Need before Greed" can't be used, cuz players can't agree about loot system (yea, some smart guys invented "Need anything I want" system very fast). Blizzard should have implemented loot rules, about what most players were agreeing about, into this system long time ago, to set this rules in stone. But they are too lazy and too greed to do this: they're used this situation to force unreasonable amount of competition on players to slow down their progressing and to still cater to organized groups (yea, this damned "group needing"). Of course now everybody have forgotten about initial looting rules and treats current system as true system. Thx God, we'll get rid of this stupid "Need everything I want" system very soon.

[Aquamonkey]

It was ok for organized groups, cuz there was also a tools for punishing those players, who don't agree about commonly accepted loot rules - i.e. kicking, putting into server-wide blacklist, etc. But now, in random groups, "Need before Greed" can't be used, cuz players can't agree about loot system (yea, some smart guys invented "Need anything I want" system very fast).

You can kick people from random groups.

[AVPaul]

You can kick people from random groups.

Once a month - may be. I know, that it's against any logic, but ninja-looters are getting permanent anti-kick protection pretty fast.

[Deleted]

It should be important to note that tanks rarely go for "tanking" stats. Prot paly goes for haste, monks/druids go for crit, etc. Shit, [Thok's Tail Tip] is BiS for guardian druids.

Most of the time people complain about "ninja'ing" is from people who don't understand what other classes need. I've seen plenty of times healers throwing a hissy fit because a shadow/ele/boomkin rolled need on spirit gear. Or from melee, when hunters need on expertise. And sometimes pieces with spirit are still upgrades for mages/locks just because of ilvl. Just like sometimes pieces with parry/dodge are upgrades for a dps just because of ilvl. Reforge makes those pieces less suboptimal.

I can imagine that tanks can use some of the DPS items, but then there's something wrong with tank stats. In any case, it's not just tanks who need on DPS gear, but also for example monk healers who need on agility gear. My tank example was just one example. And some tanks would still need on DPS gear, even if they couldn't use it for their main spec.

Hell just recently someone needed on an item for a slot for which he already had a much better item. When asked why he replied "It's gold, I'll take everything I can get". But I guess it's not ninjaing because "it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to".

[Aquamonkey]

I can imagine that tanks can use some of the DPS items, but then there's something wrong with tank stats. In any case, it's not just tanks who need on DPS gear, but also for example monk healers who need on agility gear. My tank example was just one example. And some tanks would still need on DPS gear, even if they couldn't use it for their main spec.

Hell just recently someone needed on an item for a slot for which he already had a much better item. When asked why he replied "It's gold, I'll take everything I can get". But I guess it's not ninjaing because "it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to".

Being a selfish prick isn't against the rules. It's something people have to handle for themselves.

[AVPaul]

Being a selfish prick isn't against the rules. It's something people have to handle for themselves.

How? How can you prevent ninja-looter from doing it? Blizzard has done absolutely everything to protect this people from being punished somehow. You can't kick him, you can't leave group. Form a premade group? Sorry, but this turns loot system into masterloot. Telling "Form premade group" = "Need before greed loot system is not working - use masterloot instead". And you can't deal with it. 10-12% item droprate is ok. But every Nth extra ninja-looter divides this droprate by N+1, which turns item, you need, into several percent droprate rare drop, you'll have to spend a month to get. Sorry. But this is not our problem, cuz there is no way for us to solve it - it's devs' problem.