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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Most people agree to pass items to player by default, if he'll equip it immediately. Just because "Loot exists to be equipped in a first place - not to be sold"©. "Needing" against someone looking for an upgrade - is in some way "Needing" against those, who "Greeding". The fact, that you don't agree to pass item to those, who're looking for an update, doesn't give you a right to ninja. And, first of all, why do you trying to remove those, who "Greeding" from equation? That's your mistake. The fact, that they're "Greeding" doesn't give you a right to assume, that they don't want to get item.

    P.S. Wow. "Ninja-looter" term appears to be so simply at the end - "Player, who gets priority to get loot without permission from other players in the party". As simple as that.
    No it's not. "Needing" against someone else who is "Needing" doesn't block them out. Everyone who "Needs" has equal chance to get the item. "Needing" against people who "Greed" does block them out because of the different priorities in the system. But in the end, they chose to put themselves on a lower priority by clicking "greed".

    There is no priority between people clicking "need". They both have the same priority, it's not ninjaing.

    Everyone who queues up for LFD implicitly agrees to the loot system whereby people choose for themselves what priority to opt into. There are no permissions given by other players or even a consensus. People act as individuals unless they discuss some agreement during the run. And even if there is a discussion, players are not bound to any sort of consensus if they don't agree with it. If you can't handle people not adhering to the same loot priorities as you, then don't use a system where you have no control over the loot. Make your own group and set up your own rules with people who agree with your loot priority.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    No it's not. "Needing" against someone else who is "Needing" doesn't block them out. Everyone who "Needs" has equal chance to get the item. "Needing" against people who "Greed" does block them out because of the different priorities in the system. But in the end, they chose to put themselves on a lower priority by clicking "greed".

    There is no priority between people clicking "need". They both have the same priority, it's not ninjaing.

    Everyone who queues up for LFD implicitly agrees to the loot system whereby people choose for themselves what priority to opt into. There are no permissions given by other players or even a consensus. People act as individuals unless they discuss some agreement during the run. And even if there is a discussion, players are not bound to any sort of consensus if they don't agree with it. If you can't handle people not adhering to the same loot priorities as you, then don't use a system where you have no control over the loot. Make your own group and set up your own rules with people who agree with your loot priority.
    If both players want to, let's say, sell this item, then if you can press "Need" and other player can't - then via pressing "Need" you're blocking him from being able to have equal chance with you to sell this item. That's what is ninjaing.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    If both players want to, let's say, sell this item, then if you can press "Need" and other player can't - then via pressing "Need" you're blocking him from being able to have equal chance with you to sell this item. That's what is ninjaing.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    No, it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    No, it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to.
    This bluepost simply says, that it's not bannable behavior. What rules say and what is in reality - are two different things. For example Blizzard's EULA says, that Blizzard have a right to ban you without any reasoning, but in reality they would never do it. System will be changed just because it's self-inconsistent. It gives priority to players by the rules, which it brakes by itself. The greatest example of thing, that Blizzard love to abuse so much - double standards. Yea, saying, that "need an upgrade" self-entitlement have no priority relative to "need to sell/DE/transmog/throw out/lulz" self-entitlement, while giving priority only to those players, for whom this items may be an upgrade, at least theoretically, which results in exact same "need to sell/DE/transmog/throw out/lulz" self-entitlements for two players not being equal in rights. Yea, great logic.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2014-01-05 at 02:12 AM.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
    Sorry for my bad english. My signature.(Warning! 9.6Mb gif animation)
    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
    "No flying - no sub" Club "No tiers in LFR - no sub" Club

  5. #125
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    No. That's exactly what I meant. People call "ninjas" by different metrics. Those definitions are not universal. Your source doesn't even treat them as definitions, just examples of what might be considered "ninjaing". So IDK why you are treating it like the ultimate authority on defining what a "ninja" is.
    But, that sort of is the the authority. How players rationally use the word. Blizzard IS NOT THE AUTHORITY on words. I have no idea what definition they cherry picked, but again, they are STILL TO THIS DAY taking steps to fix loot. ONLY A FEW PATCHES AGO did they make changed to stop ninja douches.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    But, that sort of is the the authority. How players rationally use the word. Blizzard IS NOT THE AUTHORITY on words. I have no idea what definition they cherry picked, but again, they are STILL TO THIS DAY taking steps to fix loot. ONLY A FEW PATCHES AGO did they make changed to stop ninja douches.
    FFS, that wikipedia entry puts a disclaimer saying that the examples listed are not universal definitions. Why are you claiming it to be the authority when the wiki itself denies any such claims?

    Blizzard is the authority of how terms apply to their game from a legal standpoint. How terms are erroneously used colloquially is nothing they can control. All they can do is clearly define what they consider "ninjaing" in their game and try to inform the players of their policies. Clicking "need" for any reason is not "ninjaing" in WoW. Sometimes people "need" for douchey reasons, but it is still not "ninjaing". You may disagree with how Blizzard defines "ninjaing" in their game, but that doesn't matter. You can cry "ninja" all you want in tickets, the GMs will tell you it's not "ninjaing".
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2014-01-05 at 04:26 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #127
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    FFS, that wikipedia entry puts a disclaimer saying that the examples listed are not universal definitions. Why are you claiming it to be the authority when the wiki itself denies any such claims?

    Blizzard is the authority of how terms apply to their game from a legal standpoint. How terms are erroneously used colloquially is nothing they can control. All they can do is clearly define what they consider "ninjaing" in their game and try to inform the players of their policies. Clicking "need" for any reason is not "ninjaing" in WoW. Sometimes people "need" for douchey reasons, but it is still not "ninjaing". You may disagree with how Blizzard defines "ninjaing" in their game, but that doesn't matter. You can cry "ninja" all you want in tickets, the GMs will tell you it's not "ninjaing".
    Lol no. Their definition doesn't matter. What part of that don't you get? They sure as heck can write their ToS however they want. But that doesn't mean anything. I believe that in some states, you can't technically rape your wife as defined by law. Are you telling me that forcing your wife to have sex isn't rape, just because in some states its legal?

    It might not be against the ToS, but its still 100% ninjaing and wrong in many cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  8. #128
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madoushi View Post
    Yes I know it is just 5 man dungeons, yet this infuriates me.

    Just a brief overview, perhaps I was just unfortunate to run with people that should not exist in the first place, but I am finding it very difficult to obtain upgrades as a fury warrior without tanks also rolling need on DPS items... Hell I had a fucking Druid roll need on a strength ring (which from memory they go for agi right?). If moderators read this, it might be worth restricting items to the spec you que up as (at least for LFD), because it is starting to piss me off. I could be that asshole that just rolls need on every tank item for the sake of it, but hey.

    Hope the ninja looters die in a car accident.

    Merry Christmas

    Infracted; Wishing someone's death (even if it's "not meant") is not something which should be posted.
    if blizzard sees fit to give someone else a need button then it is not ninja looting.

    besides, what competent player uses 5 mans in order to "gear" their toon?


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Lol no. Their definition doesn't matter. What part of that don't you get? They sure as heck can write their ToS however they want. But that doesn't mean anything. I believe that in some states, you can't technically rape your wife as defined by law. Are you telling me that forcing your wife to have sex isn't rape, just because in some states its legal?

    It might not be against the ToS, but its still 100% ninjaing and wrong in many cases.
    Again... According to YOU. Your source even says those examples are not definitions set in stone.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #130
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Again... According to YOU. Your source even says those examples are not definitions set in stone.
    Yes because nothing is set in stone! That source just lists different rational instances of ninja looting. Maybe in 100 years "ninja looting" will mean dressing as a ninja when you loot things. But NOW, those are the definitions, and they have been since as long as I've played WoW. (2005)
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Yes because nothing is set in stone! That source just lists different rational instances of ninja looting. Maybe in 100 years "ninja looting" will mean dressing as a ninja when you loot things. But NOW, those are the definitions, and they have been since as long as I've played WoW. (2005)
    No. It lists different instances of what might be considered ninja looting. They are NOT definitions. It doesn't say they are definitions. It doesn't treat them as definitions. Stop calling them definitions. It doesn't even say "usually labeled" or "often labeled", it says "might be labeled".
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    No, it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to.
    I don't know why, but that statement reminds me of the joke: "It's not considered Rape if you first shout "Surprise!""
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  13. #133
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    No. It lists different instances of what might be considered ninja looting. They are NOT definitions. It doesn't say they are definitions. It doesn't treat them as definitions. Stop calling them definitions. It doesn't even say "usually labeled" or "often labeled", it says "might be labeled".
    It doesn't need to call them "definitions" for them to be "definitions."
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  14. #134
    i feel like there should just be another button thats like above greed but below need, for xmog, os and shizzle like that
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  15. #135
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    i feel like there should just be another button thats like above greed but below need, for xmog, os and shizzle like that
    People wouldn't use it very often, though. Your button is what greed SHOULD be used for. Need is supposed to be used for upgrades concerning your class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    People wouldn't use it very often, though. Your button is what greed SHOULD be used for. Need is supposed to be used for upgrades concerning your class.
    Need is for someone who feels like pushing the button. That's what gives you the right to roll need on an item: The existence of the button.

    I have found that people taking "my" loot away from me is no longer a problem, after adopting this definition of "need."

    Besides, who in the hell has ever lost anything he really needed in a 5-man since, I dunno, the third week of the expansion.

  17. #137
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Need is for someone who feels like pushing the button. That's what gives you the right to roll need on an item: The existence of the button.

    I have found that people taking "my" loot away from me is no longer a problem, after adopting this definition of "need."

    Besides, who in the hell has ever lost anything he really needed in a 5-man since, I dunno, the third week of the expansion.
    You not caring about 5 man loot does not matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    It doesn't need to call them "definitions" for them to be "definitions."
    Stop attributing more authority and definitiveness than it claims for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    People wouldn't use it very often, though. Your button is what greed SHOULD be used for. Need is supposed to be used for upgrades concerning your class.
    "Greed" is the same priority as DE. Nobody in their right mind would click "greed" when they want to actually use the item.

    "Need" = I want the item.
    "Greed" = I sorta want the item, but whatevs.
    "DE" = I sorta want the enchanting mats, but whatevs.
    "Pass" = I don't want the item.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2014-01-05 at 07:43 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  19. #139
    Ahhh. Almost forgotten. If "Need everything you can" system is correct, then current system is still very flawed due to difference in % of items different classes can need on. For example Druids, Shamans and Paladins can need almost on everything, except other types of armor, while pure dps classes can't do it. So, sometimes some items are almost impossible to get, cuz everybody in your party can roll on them. But sometimes situation is opposite: you're the only one, who can equip dropped type of armor, so if you'll roll need on it, this item is guarantied to you - you're blocking all other party members from even having a chance to get this item. So how about balancing classes around % of items, they can roll need on?
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
    Sorry for my bad english. My signature.(Warning! 9.6Mb gif animation)
    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
    "No flying - no sub" Club "No tiers in LFR - no sub" Club

  20. #140
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Ahhh. Almost forgotten. If "Need everything you can" system is correct, then current system is still very flawed due to difference in % of items different classes can need on. For example Druids, Shamans and Paladins can need almost on everything, except other types of armor, while pure dps classes can't do it. So, sometimes some items are almost impossible to get, cuz everybody in your party can roll on them. But sometimes situation is opposite: you're the only one, who can equip dropped type of armor, so if you'll roll need on it, this item is guarantied to you - you're blocking all other party members from even having a chance to get this item. So how about balancing classes around % of items, they can roll need on?
    You can only need on other armor types in low-level instances.

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