Alternative Christmas Message

[Skroe]

So I trust you've done no research on diplomacy and international relations? Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's legal, or within our rights.

Espionage laws are entirely national laws. It's a crime to perpetrate it by an individual within a border. There is no international ban on spying that we're breaking. Why don't countries go ballistic when the NRO, or a dozen other country's space programs launches new spy satellites every couple of months.

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I assume you don't see the irony.

Daerio thinks I'm pathetic. Omgggg *whine* what am I to do. Somebody hold me.

You're such a wiener, Daerio. Never change.

[Vetis]

I'm curious as to what that message had to do with Christmas. It was interesting, don't get me wrong, but it seems a bit of a misnomer to call it a Christmas message.

its a regular thing C4 does in the UK so people who for some reason cant turn off the tv or just not watch the queen ramble on, can watch this.

[artemishunter1]

I wonder if the American-English dialect doesn't include the term "Whistle-blower" or something?

Everything always seems to be coming up angels and traitors from the states.

Such absolutism.

Well, wistle blowing would be revealing something illigal such as gov't spying on its people. Revealing gov't spying on foreign people is not wistle blowing as it is not illigal, as constitution does not reach far from domestic soil and u.s. territory and U.S. has no treaty with any nations that prevent spying so not even international law illigal. Gov't is just doing its business, he reveals the business to everyone on the forign side.

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Snowden's biggest legacy so far as that he got loads of NSA IT workers fired as they closed that security hole and implimenteted a two man rule. But broadly speaking, our government relies far too much on contractors for everything. I've wrote about this before, but no serious discussion on the federal budget can take place without there being fundamental government contracting reform. Companies get paid too much, deliver too late, and often way over budget and under quality and under terribly poor oversight. For the Air Force, that describes Lockheed Martin and the F-35. For Obamacare, that describes the CGI Federal, which failed to deliver a working website (and fails at most of what it does). For NASA, that's also Lockheed Martin and the James Webb Space telescope fiasco. For the NSA, that was Booz-Allen and it's IT workforce.

They're all exactly the same problem.

Unless government contracting is fundamentally reformed, it doesn't matter how much money we throw at things: there will be more F-35s and more Edward Snowdens.

You bring a good point. U.S. Military used to be number 1 during the days of WWII in terms of logistics. Now, a table costs more than 10 tables. Offcourse, defenders of this bullshit will say capitalism will save us and gov't can't do anythign right.

[lockedout]

SNIP

So you have a problem with how he went about it?
Betraying his country who was committing an unknown amount of federal offenses.
I don't see another avenue he could have pursued without most likely being executed or jailed for ever.

You also neglected to address the fact that these agencies in most cases were breaking federal law or just ignoring the constitution.

[Daerio]

So you have a problem with how he went about it?
Betraying his country who was committing an unknown amount of federal offenses.
I don't see another avenue he could have pursued without most likely being executed or jailed for ever.

You also neglected to address the fact that these agencies in most cases were breaking federal law or just ignoring the constitution.

It's OK though, because they invented a "secret court" where they made everything legal. No need to change the constitution through the process that was already in place, we can just end-run around it. Also, it's all for your own good, because everybody else is spying, so we need to stay ahead of it and make sure we're listening to every phone call everywhere in the world, because terrorism.

Don't worry though, you're still involved in the process, because you can vote. On somebody who has nothing to do with the process any more.

[Vokal]

While I don't like the NSA this dude just needs to let it go.

Kind of hard to stop doing that while he's sitting in Russia very very far away from family and friends he's known his whole life.

Not asking for anyone to shed a tear, that would be just plain silly for people like him who knew what they were getting into. Just trying to show a different point of view.

[lockedout]

It's OK though, because they invented a "secret court" where they made everything legal. No need to change the constitution through the process that was already in place, we can just end-run around it. Also, it's all for your own good, because everybody else is spying, so we need to stay ahead of it and make sure we're listening to every phone call everywhere in the world, because terrorism.

Don't worry though, you're still involved in the process, because you can vote. On somebody who has nothing to do with the process any more.

It's amazing how the founding fathers (I know ppl hate this term) warned about all of this so long ago. It was happening in England and here at the time and that's why a revolution happened. They also warned about the danger of central banks and now our country is totally fucked by a foreign banking cartel that has hijacked the united states. If the founding fathers were able to see the united states now they would think england came and took over again.

I think one of our biggest problems is the 2 party system and electing the lesser of 2 evils.

[Phookah]

What a stupid cunt.

[Skroe]

You bring a good point. U.S. Military used to be number 1 during the days of WWII in terms of logistics. Now, a table costs more than 10 tables. Offcourse, defenders of this bullshit will say capitalism will save us and gov't can't do anythign right.

And not just that. The civilians who originized US Military WWII logistics went to revolutionize private sector logistics after the war. Logistics and efficiency is actually a fascinating interdisciplinary subfield for computer scientists, economists, finance experts and mathematicians, much of it first created during World War II.

Modern Contracting's biggest problems are, in no particular order:

(1) Laughable oversight. Oversight is intentionally underfunded and understaffed. The people working in it by most accounts work very hard, but they don't have the manpower and resources the jobs ask for.

(2) Agency Inspector Generals are too weak. They can pretty much write reports making suggestions, but they rarely are able to haul project managers infront of a hearing or push pause on a project for an internal review. And getting fired never happens.

(3) Contractors have become experts at politically protecting their contracts by spreading them through strategic districts. A canceled contract means laid off workers, or so they've made politicans believe.

(4) The Department of Defense and Contractors have successfully convinced Congress that ANY major project that is canceled threatens the entire future of the company and could lead to further contractor consolidation. The end of the Cold War in the 1990s saw extremely contractor consolidation (hence Lockheed + Martin Maretta, and Boeing + MacDonald Douglas and Northrop + Grunman). It's pretty silly that Contractors worth tens or hundreds of billions of dollars say cancellation of an annual contract worth, at most a few billion, imperils their future viability.

(5) The structure of contracts (Cost-Plus contracts) give contractors almost no incentive to control costs and deliver in a timely manner.

It's a sickening abomination. My common retort to people who naively suggest we double NASA's budget is "if you double NASA's budget, you'll find every single project they do now costing double and no new projects", and that's because this is exactly what happened, because even though the agencies' overall budget did not increase in size, over the years various parts of it (such as the robotic exploration budget, or space science and so forth) have doubled and halved,and every time, no "more" or "less" ever starts being done short of a major policy change that effects the entire mission of NASA.

[H311DOZER]

You mean traitor Edward Snowden. Every week this dude just confirms that all he is, is an internet forum troll (Ars Technica in this case) who escaped the asylum. "Alternative Christmas Message"... his he for fucking real? I'm not sure if he's joking or just an idiot. What hole did this clown crawl out of? What do you wanna bet he's gonna deliver a New Year's Eve surprise in a vain attempt to remain relevant, right out of the Julian Assange playbook?

It's okay. He loses on account of, you know, getting to spend Christmas with his Russian handlers, and not with his family and friends like, you know, actual decent people. I for one, am having a wonderful Christmas.

Cya in '14, traitor. =)

Ok Billy O, back in your corner. The endless moron, inbred hillbillies that want to throw this guy to the wolves is amusing. For a second, did anyone think to blame the people he exposed? For example, the president....Yeah he's just following in The Bush Thinking so he's off the hook. The elected officials that passed things like TARP, the cuts to farmer subsidies, the pretend way they tried to limit the internet just 3-4 short years ago....No. Just blame the whistle blower. The guy exposes what the average Amerikan can't see in front of their own eyes because they are blinded by American Idol, The Voice, that cow Kim Kardasian and her moron thing Jezzy. Please, feel free to look up anything other than trolling. Here's something you can look up. A few short months ago, there was a report 64% of Americans are actually working. Do you have any idea what that means? Just a fact for you to try to educate yourself with.

Snowden is far from a traitor and if you looked beyond your own bedroom window, you might see how the only things he exposed, are what's really happening. So I guess I see your point, instead of looking at what our leaders are doing to us, it's better to live on your knees. No amount of trolling or slamming me will change that.

[lockedout]

SNIP.

TLDR: Big money with outside interests controls our government.

[Vokal]

The guy exposes what the average Amerikan can't see in front of their own eyes because they are blinded by American Idol, The Voice, that cow Kim Kardasian and her moron thing Jezzy.

I'll admit I lol'd.

[PACOX]

Snowden is such a self righteous asshole. Best way for the NSA to gain sympathy, just let Snowden keep running his mouth.

[Deleted]

I love how Skroesec's only problem is not that Snowden bought to light the scale of domestic surveillance (that's a problem and should be talked about according to him). But international spying? Fuck no. #MURICA! How dare our shady activities be unearthed and any citizen from any other nation who has a problem with it can go fuck themselves.

Liberty (but only for Americans).

[Wikiy]

I love how Skroesec's only problem is that Snowden bringing to light the scale of domestic surveillance (that's a problem and should be talked about according to him). But international spying? Fuck no. #MURICA! How dare our shady activities be unearthed and any citizen from any other nation who has a problem with it can go fuck themselves.

Liberty (but only for Americans).

Yes, well, you see, apparently, all of us who have problems with spying at such massive scales be in international or whatever, are apparently deluded and naive. Oh, and seeing as you're in the UK, I wouldn't be surprised if Skroesec brings up the fact that your country cooperates with the US in virtually all of their spying programmes (same as Canada and Australia - this must be an Anglophone thing). And that really is true.

However, the difference is that I still haven't seen a single Brit on this forum who was okay with their country breaking the privacy of citizens of other countries (excluding special cases like Iran for obvious reasons) just because they aren't citizens of the UK. When it comes to Americans... well, let's just say you can't have a topic about spying on this forum without at least one guy like Skroesec coming in and justifying his country's spying rampage (I still haven't figured out what he thinks the justification is - I guess it's the fact that the constitution lists rights only for American citizens - meaning from that perspective, non-Americans have no rights).

Oh, and Skroesec, I noticed you're under the impression that the US isn't breaking international law by violating the privacy of non-American citizens.

The International Bill of Human Rights consists of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and its two Optional Protocols. In 1966 the General Assembly adopted the two detailed Covenants, which complete the International Bill of Human Rights; and in 1976, after the Covenants had been ratified by a sufficient number of individual nations, the Bill took on the force of international law.

I.e., everything that's in the International Bill of Human Rights is international law. Meaning everything that's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is as well.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Oh, and your country voted it in and ratified it. This doesn't just make your country (and if you end up being offended by this, I really am sorry, but I am not the one equating the American people and the political entity that is the country itself) a law-breaker in that sense, it also makes it hypocritical.

[Deleted]

Yes. For the record, I am against GCHQ's contentious activities as well domestic or international.

[Collegeguy]

I like Snowden, but more influential forces like Google and even Blizzard destroy privacy in our culture more than the NSA imo.

[scoobysnacks]

You mean traitor Edward Snowden. Every week this dude just confirms that all he is, is an internet forum troll (Ars Technica in this case) who escaped the asylum. "Alternative Christmas Message"... his he for fucking real? I'm not sure if he's joking or just an idiot. What hole did this clown crawl out of? What do you wanna bet he's gonna deliver a New Year's Eve surprise in a vain attempt to remain relevant, right out of the Julian Assange playbook?

It's okay. He loses on account of, you know, getting to spend Christmas with his Russian handlers, and not with his family and friends like, you know, actual decent people. I for one, am having a wonderful Christmas.

Cya in '14, traitor. =)

I bet you're the kind of person who whispers "Murica" in their sleep.

[GreatOak]

Yes, well, you see, apparently, all of us who have problems with spying at such massive scales be in international or whatever, are apparently deluded and naive. Oh, and seeing as you're in the UK, I wouldn't be surprised if Skroesec brings up the fact that your country cooperates with the US in virtually all of their spying programmes (same as Canada and Australia - this must be an Anglophone thing). And that really is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement

However, the difference is that I still haven't seen a single Brit on this forum who was okay with their country breaking the privacy of citizens of other countries (excluding special cases like Iran for obvious reasons) just because they aren't citizens of the UK.

I have

When it comes to Americans... well, let's just say you can't have a topic about spying on this forum without at least one guy like Skroesec coming in and justifying his country's spying rampage (I still haven't figured out what he thinks the justification is - I guess it's the fact that the constitution lists rights only for American citizens - meaning from that perspective, non-Americans have no rights).

Yes, it's pretty sad how many Americans (though I don't believe it's the majority) are fine with the slow disintegration of our rights and abandonment of our principles. I think its mostly apathy, though. Jingoism runs deep through many people here unfortunately.

Oh, and Skroesec, I noticed you're under the impression that the US isn't breaking international law by violating the privacy of non-American citizens.

I think he knows. He doesn't care because everybody spies on other countries (which is true) and nobody could stop or wants to stop the US and its close allies from doing it (also true). I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong. I'm against extensive spying against non-Americans because we all have rights, but even I realize its not a reality as long as every other major power does the exact same thing or works in concert with others to do so. At least we can stop our own governments from doing it to ourselves.

[stabetha]

I bet you're the kind of person who whispers "Murica" in their sleep.

I bet your the type of person who thinks useing the term "Murica" is cool and edge and not bigoted and insulting. why don't you call me a nig@#$ too while you're at it.