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  1. #281
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That isn't much of an argument, since other classes have similar abilities to each other.
    You would think that, but DK's "charge" ability is Death Grip which pulls the target to you. Monk "charge" ability called Clash forces your target to charge you while you charge him, like Rams do. The only ability remotely similar to Warrior charge is Bear charge which is part of a talent set which changes based on what form you're in.

    Demon Rush is EXACTLY like the warrior ability.


    Correction, they use 'necromantic magic', which, according to you, is different from 'fel magic', right?
    You can pick your poison here. Either Rogues or DKs. Either way, Shadow melee is handled in game.

    And of course Enhancement takes care of fire-based melee.


    The only difference between the Shaman's Ascendance and the Warlock's Metamorphosis is that one turns into an elemental, the other into a demon. Period. Both do the same thing: empowers and alter some of your class' spells.
    The other difference being that Ascendance is a cooldown while Meta is a part of the Warlock's resource system and they can use it anytime said resource is up.

    Of course not. But they can easily implement similar abilities that still stay faithful to the original WC3 spells. I even provided some viable examples of those two in WoW mechanic terms. 'Immolation' could also translate as a bonus fire damage to auto-attacks.
    That suggestion sounds exactly like Flametongue weapon....
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-08-04 at 06:40 PM.

  2. #282
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And how does this "mobility" translate into gameplay? Your charge ability "Demon Rush" operates exactly like the Warrior Charge ability. Your Burning Speed ability sounds like several other movement increasing abilities that most melee classes possess.
    Its time to explain you everything. Similarities will still exist but i will explain everything to you.
    Mobility: Movement Speed, Fast Martial Combat, Chance to Dodge Attacks, Chance to Parry attacks---> That is what i call mobility
    Demon Rush operates as the Warrior charge ability and that is true with one exception.

    Lets have a look at the Demon Rush:
    Demon Rush(3-20yards/Cd:15sec):Charges at the enemy rooting him for 2 seconds.

    Demon Rush is a low range charge 3-20 yard range intended to increase the fighting mobility of the Demon Hunters. Charge of the warrior has 8-25 yard range and 1.50 sec root, but Demon Rush has a 2sec Root allowing the Demon Hunter to use at least 2 of his abilities in difference from the Warriors who can use only 1. Because the DH weapon abilities deal less damage than abilities of the warrior.

    Still i have planned further changes for this ability via Talents. Anyway thank you for your feedback.

    According to me the Demon Hunter is a class which moves fast, and uses low range abilities and spells to augment their martial combat and their weapon skills.

    Burning Speed is intended to change when the Demon Hunter reaches lv 81 and has to choose the talents. It increases the movement speed by a low percentage but for a long time in difference from some other abilities in the game which increase the speed by a high percentage for a short time. Lets have a look at it:

    Burning Speed(Cd:1min) : Increases your movement speed by 20% for the next 28 seconds.Leaves a trail of flames in its wake.

    You see?! For 28 seconds. Now it is the time to show you the talents that modify it:

    -Terror Sprint: When Burning Speed is active all enemies who attack you have a 20% chance to increase your movement speed by another 10% for 3 seconds.
    -Improved Speed: Burning Speed now lasts 34 seconds.
    -Fortitude of The Flames: Burning Speed now heals you for 5% of your HP when used.

    The first and the third talent make your Burning Speed a good escaping mechanism.The second increases its duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Using Fel/Fire Magic melee" sounds different on paper, but how does it work in execution? Remember, Enhancement Shaman already use fire melee, and their abilities will be heavily DoT based in WoD. Death Knights already use shadow magic and plagues. Additionally, we don't have the option of taking this class ranged from that spell system because Warlocks cover the ranged portion of Fel/Fire magic.
    Yes it sounds and it is. Depends on the way that the class uses it. For example the Demon Hunters use it to augment their melee combat skills. Yes it is true that the shaman use fire melee, but they dont use Fel Melee this is a difference. The similarity is this: they use fire magic to augment their combat skills. Death Knights use plagues and shadow magic, but they dont use a Nether Plague which is a Fel Magic. So we can find similarities and differences. This game will continue forever with each class in WoW.Yes thats a good point Teriz , Warlocks cover the Fel/Fire magic from the ranged aspect and Demon Hunters will cover the melee aspect of Fel/Fire/Shadow/Arcane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Your version of Metamorphosis not only has to be different than the Warlock's ability, it also has to be different than Warrior's Avatar ability, and the Shaman's Ascendance ability.
    Good that is a real challenge.

    Meta: Dread Ascendence(Cd:3min/Cost: 3 Netherstones)

    You transform into a Shadowy Dreadlord replacing X spell with Carrion Swarm, Dreadshield with Demonic Anger etc. In addition increases your armor by 25% and reduces physical damage taken by 15%. Replaces Mana Burn with Dread Bolt.Lasts for 22 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard will not institute either the WC3 version of Immolation, OR Mana Burn. Both of those spells were deemed to OP and were removed from the game. Nothing spell-breaking based will ever be instituted into any class, so just forget about it. In the case of Immolation, just look at the reasons why Retribution Aura and Thorns got removed.
    The Mana Burn ability can be redesigned and can be a good ability for the Demon Hunters. Warcraft 3 version of Immolation is a constant melee damage dealing ability. If Blizzard find the right damage formula per Fel Energy it may work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, the lore sounds great, but this class has to PLAY differently than existing classes in order to have a chance of ever being implemented. EVERYTHING that makes this class unique and interesting already exists in other classes. The design behind this class won't let it to happen, because if you veer too far from the established core design, you won't have DHs anymore.
    That is the whole point of this class idea. Yes it plays in a different way but it plays also in a similar way to the other classes that exist. Depends from the point of view. If you say the Nether Plague is just a version of Death Knight plagues that is a similarity. But if you say that the Death Knights use Shadow Magic Plagues which last for 30 seconds and The Demon Hunters use Nether Magic Plagues which last for 1 min that is a difference. Another difference is the way that this plague works. It can be refreshed only by the ability which caused it and it can only be spread by an ability that requires 3 Chaos Charges which require a 50sec fight to be acquired. Lets have a look at the abilities used by the rogues and lets compare Slice and Dice with Dark Fury.

    Slice and Dice: Finishing move that consumes combo points on any nearby target to increase melee attack speed by 40%. Lasts longer per combo point:
    1 point : 12 seconds
    2 points: 18 seconds
    3 points: 24 seconds
    4 points: 30 seconds
    5 points: 36 seconds

    Dark Fury(Cost:1-3SH):Increases your autto attack damage by 5% and your auttoattack speed by 15% per Shadow Charge.Lasts for 14 seconds.If used on 3 Shadow Charges grants ano 5% increased autto attack damage and causes your autto attacks to deal pure Shadow Damage.

    They both increase your autto attack speed. But the Shadow Charges effect Dark Fury in a different way that the Combo points effect Slice and Dice. Shadow Charges increase the autto attack damage output of the demon hunters and the Combo Points for Rogues increase the duration of Slice and Dice. Furthermore if Dark Fury is used it will reduce your damage output from 2 other abilities: Shadow Barrage and Dark Lance. You see now how it works?!

    Conclusion:
    The Demon Hunters use abilities which are similar and different from the other classes. Depends from the point of view.
    Last edited by Arberian; 2014-08-04 at 07:59 PM.
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
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  3. #283
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You would think that, but DK's "charge" ability is Death Grip which pulls the target to you. Monk "charge" ability called Clash forces your target to charge you while you charge him, like Rams do. The only ability remotely similar to Warrior charge is Bear charge which is part of a talent set which changes based on what form you're in.

    Demon Rush is EXACTLY like the warrior ability.
    Then change and/or remove some mechanics to make it different. Simple.

    You can pick your poison here. Either Rogues or DKs. Either way, Shadow melee is handled in game.
    DKs have, by your definition, necromantic shadow. So they have 'necromantic shadow' melee. And Rogues are just physical melee. So 'fel shadow melee' is still open.

    And of course Enhancement takes care of fire-based melee.
    Didn't you spend a lot of time, some time ago, explaining the differences of the Mage's fire spec and the Warlock's Fire spec, about one being arcane in origin, the other being fel in origin? So why would the Shaman's fire, which comes from the elements, be similar to the Demon Hunter's fire, which would come from fel?

    The other difference being that Ascendance is a cooldown while Meta is a part of the Warlock's resource system and they can use it anytime said resource is up.
    But both do the same thing: transform the caster into a different form that changes and augments their powers. Basically, the same thing, if any and all different iterations of Demon Hunter's metamorphosis ability given by the others are equal to the Warlock's.

    That suggestion sounds exactly like Flametongue weapon....
    One-half of the Flametongue Weapon's ability, yes. But that is enough of a difference already for it to be its own ability. Maybe it could be a cooldown that could increase damage resistance and add fire damage to the attacks. It's an idea. In WoD, though, Flametongue Weapon (and other Weapon spells) will be gone and be replaced by 'Enhanced Weapons' which further differentiates from a spell that gives all your attacks bonus fire damage, or convert all of your damage into fire, right?
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  4. #284
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arberian View Post
    Its time to explain you everything. Similarities will still exist but i will explain everything to you.
    Mobility: Movement Speed, Fast Martial Combat, Chance to Dodge Attacks, Chance to Parry attacks---> That is what i call mobility
    Demon Rush operates as the Warrior charge ability and that is true with one exception.

    Lets have a look at the Demon Rush:
    Demon Rush(3-20yards/Cd:15sec):Charges at the enemy rooting him for 2 seconds.

    Demon Rush is a low range charge 3-20 yard range intended to increase the fighting mobility of the Demon Hunters. Charge of the warrior has 8-25 yard range and 1.50 sec root, but Demon Rush has a 2sec Root allowing the Demon Hunter to use at least 2 of his abilities in difference from the Warriors who can use only 1.

    Still i have planned further changes for this ability via Talents. Anyway thank you for your feedback.
    And this demonstrates the entire problem with your concept.

    You're taking existing abilities, and tweaking them in an attempt to show how these abilities are different. In fact, these abilities aren't different at all. Adding 1.5 seconds and 2 yards doesn't make Demon Rush a different ability from Warrior's Charge. Adding unrelated mechanics to Burning whatever doesn't make it different than Death's Advance. When we need to take discarded abilities from existing classes and place them into a new class, then said class isn't very "new" at all.

    Nor would players accept the class as such. Warrior players would be pissed that a new class would get a superior version of their ability. Rogues would feel that this new class is taking too much of their design. Shaman would be bitter about having to share fire Melee with a hero class, and wonder why their class couldn't get some of those cool new mechanics. Warlocks would wonder why this new class is getting Dreadlord form and Carrion Swarm when Warlocks already had the latter ability, and the majority of the DL's abilities from WC3.

    What made Monks different than Rogues? Simple; both came from large unrelated archetypes that Blizzard could constantly pull from for inspiration. Flying Serpent Kick, Tiger Palm, Jab, Blackout Kick, Rising Sun Kick, Touch of Death, and Spinning Crane Kick are just a few examples of how the Monk class, whose basis was martial arts, was instantly different than Rogues, who have abilities like Sinister Strike, Mutilate, hemorrhage, Stealth, Cloak and dagger, etc. Moving forward, these two classes will never collide because Rogues have the massive thief/pirate/assassin theme to pull from, and monks have the massive martial arts/fighter/pugilist theme to pull from.

    You're not doing that here. With the DH concept, you're taking a dash of this and a dash of that and trying to convince everyone that this is something we don't have in the game. The problem is that this feels like bits and pieces of existing Melee classes because it IS bits and pieces of existing classes. We ask what makes this different, and you keep saying that this class is mobile and fast Melee. Monks are mobile and fast Melee. You say that they're fel/fire Melee. We have fire Melee in the game, and I have yet to see what makes fel Melee anymore different than the Melee we have.

    Adding mechanics and changing names means diddly squat if the core is the same.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-08-04 at 07:56 PM.

  5. #285
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And this demonstrates the entire problem with your concept.

    You're taking existing abilities, and tweaking them in an attempt to show how these abilities are different. In fact, these abilities aren't different at all. Adding 1.5 seconds and 2 yards doesn't make Demon Rush a different ability from Warrior's Charge. Adding unrelated mechanics to Burning whatever doesn't make it different than Death's Advance. When we need to take discarded abilities from existing classes and place them into a new class, then said class isn't very "new" at all.
    It depends from the point of view. Terrorblade Demon hunter has low range teleports, low range charge, short duration of stealth(which can be used while in combat), Shadow Spells and Shadow Clones. They use Shadow and Arcane Energy to kill their enemies. You can find similarities and i can find differences. It depends from the point of view:

    You should read everything.
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
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    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

  6. #286
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arberian View Post
    It depends from the point of view. Terrorblade Demon hunter has low range teleports,
    Rogue:Cloak and Dagger.

    low range charge,
    Warrior: Charge

    short duration of stealth(which can be used while in combat)
    Rogue: Vanish.

    Shadow Spells
    Shadow Priests: Everything. Warlocks: Affliction Spec. DKs: Several spells.


    Shadow Clones
    Monk: SEF. Rogue: Shadow Reflection. Mage: Mirror Image


    You can find similarities and i can find differences. It depends from the point of view:
    They are similar abilities. You're just taking the abilities and mechanics of existing classes and mashing them together to create a "new" class.

    There is nothing that sets the Demon Hunter immediately apart from existing classes.

  7. #287
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warrior: Charge
    Rogue: Vanish.
    So why does a new class cannot have one or two similar abilities to other classes?

    Shadow Priests: Everything. Warlocks: Affliction Spec. DKs: Several spells.
    Shadow Preists: psionic; DKs: necromantic. Warlocks: curses; Demon Hunters =/= psionic, necromantic and curses.

    Monk: SEF. Rogue: Shadow Reflection. Mage: Mirror Image
    Precedence established. It is allowed.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
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  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Heaven forbid someone doesn't pat the back of people so desperate to play out their teenage edgy ninja fantasies. There actually IS potential for a Demon Hunter class, But let's be honest, as soon as it draws away from the Illidan Look people will bitch and moan.
    Gnome Frost spec DK's with axes wearing stormwind guard transmog is as far away from Arthas as you can get. If anyone bitched and moaned, it's all on them and not on the Death Knight class. As I've said before, everything 'Illidan' can be contained in one Spec, just as everything 'Arthas' and 'Chen' are contained in just one spec each.

  9. #289
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Rogue:Cloak and Dagger.
    Teleport from 40 yard away?! That is a long range teleport and does not increase the movement speed by 20% for 1 sec and doesnt break all movement impairing effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warrior: Charge
    Yes lets give Demon Rush some good spell looking effects and that will make the charge more demonic that it seems. And has a 3-20 yard range. Not 8-25, the main purpuse of Demon Rush its to root a target within 20 yard range and then to root it again with Dark Lance, or you can use Dark Lance and then Demon Rush.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    Rogue: Vanish.
    Vanish results in a total stealth ability allowing you to remain stelathed until you attack or until you are attacked. Shadowstalk doesnt work that way.



    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Monk: SEF. Rogue: Shadow Reflection. Mage: Mirror Image.
    Shadow Reflection Copies the spells you use, Monk:SEF depends on the spells you use, Mirror Image casts the same spells again again and again, but Shadowclones have their own artificial intelligence and cast immediately Demon Rush, then they use Debilitating Strike, Demon Strike and Shadowstrike. They last for 22 seconds for a DH that has full mastery build/ with a recharge time of 3 seconds.

    You know we can go on typing similarities and differences but still it depends on the point of view.

    You use Charge than you use Mortal Strike, Slam etc etc etc. You Charge and then kick his ass hard using your Damn weapons.
    But if you want to use Demon Rush you dont need to use it without combining it. These are some combinations:
    Dark Lance--->Demon Rush--->Shadow Clone
    Shadowclone x2-->Demon Rush
    Shadowclone-->Demon Rush--> Arcanic Strike
    Demon Rush---> Burning Speed-->Chaos Strike--> Arcanic Strike

    It is not just using your damn weapons. The way it works it is different from the Warriors.
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Oh alright then, here is a discussion of ideas for everyone. Stop making Demon Hunters like rogues and Warriors, think outside the box and actually use the backgrounds Demon Hunter's have to their advantage. Really not hard. I could design a Demon Hunter class to be unique with ease.
    Do it then! Draw up your own DH class design, with specs, talents, and basic rotational abilities, and post it to show us all how easy it is.

  11. #291
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Changed the description of the Demon Rush to show you my idea on how this ability works and to make it more appropriate for the Demonic Warrior Concept:

    Demon Rush(3-20yards/Cd:15sec):You transform yourself into a Fel Orb which charges at an enemy and roots him for 2 seconds. After the charge has finished you go back to your normal form.
    My youtube Channel : Arberian021
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

  12. #292
    Metamorphosis: Cast by a warlock pretending to be a demon hunter. Greatly increases burst damage.

    Yea pretending to be, but a warlock is not a demon hunter.

  13. #293
    didnt expect to see this again
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  14. #294
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    --Updated 20/08/2014--

    Added:
    Meta: Dread Ascendance(5 Chaos Charges/1NS):You transform yourself into a Dark Dreadlord Entity increasing your ranged capabilities and causing your autto attacks to deal damage from 40 yards away and to imitate Fel Bolts dealing pure Chaos Damage. In addition your Mana Burn and Burning Heart becomes Dread Bolt, your Molten Strike becomes Molten Hand, Your Chaos Strike becomes Chaos Wave and you can no longer generate Chaos Charges. Lasts for 25 seconds.
    -Dread Bolt(40 yards)(1.7 sec cast)(40FE): Deal 195% w-dmg as Shadowflame damage to an enemy healing an injured ally within 20 yards for 60% of the damage done.
    -Molten Hand: (20 yards)(70 FE)(CD:2sec): Deals 80% weapon damage as fire damage and another 250% Fire damage over 10 seconds. If the target is under the Molten Hand Damage over Time effect it consumes the effect dealing 190% Fire Damage immediately.
    -Chaos Wave(20 yards)(85 FE)(CD:6sec): Deal 125% w-dmg as Chaos to your target and 40% Chaos Damage to all enemies between you and the target infecting them with Nether Plague.


    Removed: Glaive Strike, hand of Darkness

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LennywBoreanTUndra View Post
    Metamorphosis: Cast by a warlock pretending to be a demon hunter. Greatly increases burst damage.

    Yea pretending to be, but a warlock is not a demon hunter.
    Btw funny lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Feel Free to Discuss again for the abilities in this thread.
    Last edited by Arberian; 2014-08-20 at 06:45 AM.
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

  15. #295
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I swear this forum is stuck in a loop.
    How is that so ?!
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Guys I have this great idea for a new class.

    Think about it... What if we had a Tinker!
    This was your fault. You summoned 'him'.

    And of course Enhancement takes care of fire-based melee.
    Ah yes, between their most iconic abilities being WINDFURY, STORMSTRIKE, FERAL SPIRIT, and now ASCENDANCE (wind form). Lava lash hits fairly hard, but that is the only enhance unique fire spell unless FN is completely gone for elemental now in the prune.

    Enhancement's speciality is wind/lightning, often revolving around speeding up attacks with fire damage to supplement. They will use frost shock next expansion but we don't consider enhancement a frostbased melee (and even if they suddenly were they play completely differently from frost dk's)
    Elemental's specialty is lava/fire, often revolving around massive lava bursts supplemented with lighnting bolt / chain lightning filler damage
    for completeness, resto's specialty is water.
    Last edited by Raiju; 2014-08-23 at 10:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  17. #297
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Ah yes, between their most iconic abilities being WINDFURY, STORMSTRIKE, FERAL SPIRIT, and now ASCENDANCE (wind form). Lava lash hits fairly hard, but that is the only enhance unique fire spell unless FN is completely gone for elemental now in the prune.

    Enhancement's speciality is wind/lightning, often revolving around speeding up attacks with fire damage to supplement. They will use frost shock next expansion but we don't consider enhancement a frostbased melee (and even if they suddenly were they play completely differently from frost dk's)
    Elemental's specialty is lava/fire, often revolving around massive lava bursts supplemented with lighnting bolt / chain lightning filler damage
    for completeness, resto's specialty is water.
    I would like some feedback on the abilities and ability combinations posted in this thread.
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    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

  18. #298
    Stood in the Fire Arberian's Avatar
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    Big thanks to Blizzard for adding Demon Hunter as a class in WoW. Some of their metamorphosis were different from the Warlock's as I suspected. Also Blizz had some spell ideas which I had thought before. Anyway Good Job Blizzard. I like your new Expansion.

    I am looking forward to playing WoW:Legion !!!
    My youtube Channel : Arberian021
    WoW isn't all about new concepts or themes, it's about classic archetypes that fit the Holy Trinity gameplay style of Warcraft.
    Demon Hunter Class Idea
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exercise releases endorphins that make you feel good, iirc, don't quote me on it

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