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  1. #1

    They have seriously messed up something in mop.

    They have build the whole new world around the first tier, if someone enters the game level now for the same time it's 1,000,000 sources of gear for the first tier of the expansion and then almost all of the rest is self-contained in other sections.

    That not only made the beginning overwhelming (no wonder they nuked the biggest dailies hub later it was horrifically grindy) but also it makes most of the rest of the game look cheaper in artistic quality compared to the first month.

    What about making it simpler and harder, i.e. return to a more 'hard core' way but less plentiful, e.g. have one hugely important faction that is required or you are gated out of the raid (and why not, don't let people raid for a few weeks, to explore the world, right now we were killing bosses the first day of ding, it was too unreal and artificial), instead of all these easy to grind but annoying abundance of factions (let alone they become completely useless after the first tier).

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Nnnnno. I have 11 Ally toons, plus my Hordies.

    I love the Timeless Isle to catch them up with Burdens (which are almost like Flex SoO gear).

  3. #3
    now we were killing bosses the first day of ding
    I can't believe people still reply to this person's topics seriously lol

    Edit: Is there a way to appeal an infraction? I received a PM and there is absolutely no indication of what I should do with it, nor do there appear to be any forums on the main list where you can post.

    Anyway, if it really needs to be explained (I don't know why it has to be, but I guess some people got confused), claiming that 'killing bosses on the first day of ding' is an obvious troll statement. The first raid was delayed by one week in MOP on normal and the other two were delayed even longer. Heroic and LFR versions come after normal, as well. References to having to explore the world and their first sentence make it obvious they were referring to t14 (also, it would make no sense to apply the post to subsequent tiers because Blizzard controls when people see the raid via patch drop date, i.e. they already gate the new raids by time).

    Furthermore, they blast grindy content and then talk about how things are too easy to grind and there should be a faction that gates the raid. Now that this has been fleshed out, I'd advise future readers in this thread to consider this before taking the bait.

    The only way to rationalize the post is if he's talking about being gated from raiding at all regardless of when you hit max level on a toon, but that's obviously not true because he talks about how MOP isn't the 'hardcore' way, implying that previous expansions were different (lol MC, Naxxramas, and nerfed Kara).
    Last edited by Pennoyer; 2013-12-26 at 03:07 AM.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    I don't think I get what you mean. Nothing about MoP's gearing has particularly changed from any previous expansion except:

    - You can upgrade items with VP
    - You can get bonus rolls in raids to potentially win another item

    That's about it. Wrath & Cata both featured JP, near & heroic dungeon equivalent gear along with VP gear on par with the raid tier. Every tier this VP gear changed. You've been able to jump into the later tiers since early Wrath.

    And referencing "killing bosses first day of ding" is completely wrong. No one except for world-first guilds were "killing bosses first day of ding", which I assume you mean your first character hitting 90 upon MoP release. If you're referring to later alts, who cares? You've already downed most or all of those bosses on your main, why the hell would it matter if your alts can do the same? As it is, LFR & Flex are gated weeks apart so no one goes into LFR the first day a tier is released. Once I've already gone through MV, HoF, ToES, ToT, and SoO on my main why would I want to do it again for the other 8 90's I have?

    So, in essence, your post makes no sense.



  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    now we were killing bosses the first day of ding
    LFR isn't raiding... :-)

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandadelagua View Post
    LFR isn't raiding... :-)
    LFR wasn't available!

    2/3 raids weren't!!!!

    Classic example of spot a nub.

  7. #7
    Do those angry people calling others trolls and "nubs" even play the game? You could kill world bosses the first day of ding and the items were superior by anything else at the time.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    Do those angry people calling others trolls and "nubs" even play the game? You could kill world bosses the first day of ding and the items were superior by anything else at the time.
    So wait, let me get this right, you want people to have to explore for a while, and not be able to interact at all with the boss sitting right there waiting to fight?
    Also this would be terrible if I'm reading it correctly, people would hit level 90 on an alt just to be forced to stop playing it? What?
    My shaman I guess if you want to see it or something.
    "It’s not what you have, or what you can do. Just being born, living your life… before you know it, you’re already special to someone."

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    Do those angry people calling others trolls and "nubs" even play the game? You could kill world bosses the first day of ding and the items were superior by anything else at the time.
    So what? I don't get the issue. You could only make one kill per character per week and the drop rates were what? 15%? Gearing up via Sha was nearly impossible; you had to do LFR or raid normal modes.



  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    You could kill world bosses the first day of ding and the items were superior by anything else at the time.
    Yeah by ghost running your entire faction on the realm to the boss over and over. which led to the nerf and ruination of the quick and the dead guild perk
    POWERED BY THE RED RAGE OF OUR CUSTOMERS, THIS IRON STEED WILL VALIANTLY LEAD YOU INTO BATTLE FOR THE ONLY FEW WEEKS YOU WILL USE IT. TAKES ONLY $30 AND YOUR SOUL TO ENJOY THE MOUNT EVERY OTHER PERSON HAS. BUY NOOOW.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I get what you mean. Nothing about MoP's gearing has particularly changed from any previous expansion except:
    There are no catch-up heroics anymore. LFR doesn't compete in that field because drop rates suck and 1 week lockout. Doesn't really help to catch-up. Before that you could spam heroics for one day and you had somewhat proper gear. 496 timeless items are too low to be a real catch-up and you can't really count on burdens to drop. I mostly get them on chars I don't need them on anymore.

    I am only pointing out why I think MoP is alt-unfriendly. Gearing for mains is still fine as they normally don't need catch-up mechanics.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    Do those angry people calling others trolls and "nubs" even play the game? You could kill world bosses the first day of ding and the items were superior by anything else at the time.
    I don't get your point? People had 1 roll on the Sha and Galleon and maybe a bonus roll, half of the gear was PvP stuff anyway.

    It's not like people could farm 100 bosses and gear up instantly

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Efrye View Post
    I am only pointing out why I think MoP is alt-unfriendly. Gearing for mains is still fine as they normally don't need catch-up mechanics.
    It used to be bad. Now it's fine - Timeless Isle + couple of Burdens gets you in SoO LFR range, which gets you in SoO Flex range, which gets you in Normal range (and after that, I guess you can consider your alt as "caught-up")

    Yes, there's a element of RNG in LFR drops, but honestly, it's not that terrible...

  14. #14
    mop is alt unfriendly regardless of the 496 drops and burdens. guilds don't want toons without cloak and that's 3-4 months of farming old lfrs for RNG drops per toon(that's with them reducing the valor needed to 3 weeks before even reaching the ToT tedium)
    POWERED BY THE RED RAGE OF OUR CUSTOMERS, THIS IRON STEED WILL VALIANTLY LEAD YOU INTO BATTLE FOR THE ONLY FEW WEEKS YOU WILL USE IT. TAKES ONLY $30 AND YOUR SOUL TO ENJOY THE MOUNT EVERY OTHER PERSON HAS. BUY NOOOW.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    Do those angry people calling others trolls and "nubs" even play the game? You could kill world bosses the first day of ding and the items were superior by anything else at the time.
    new level 60s had access to world bosses

    new level 70s had access to world bosses

    blizzard skipped world bosses for 80 and 85...

    etc...

    edit: oops i forgot, level 80 had VoA bosses in WG and 85 had the tol barad stuff, so 80 and 85 did have 'freshly dinged top level' bosses available.
    Last edited by greysaber; 2013-12-28 at 04:40 PM.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Efrye View Post
    There are no catch-up heroics anymore. LFR doesn't compete in that field because drop rates suck and 1 week lockout. Doesn't really help to catch-up. Before that you could spam heroics for one day and you had somewhat proper gear. 496 timeless items are too low to be a real catch-up and you can't really count on burdens to drop. I mostly get them on chars I don't need them on anymore.

    I am only pointing out why I think MoP is alt-unfriendly. Gearing for mains is still fine as they normally don't need catch-up mechanics.
    Timless Isle's 496 isn't a catch-up mechanic? Really? In one evening I was participating in SoO LFR on my monk as soon as he hit 90; I had tons of 496 leather gear in my bank + what he picked up + a weapon I crafted him.

    I still contend that the gearing strat hasn't changed. Instead of dungeons it is Timeless Isle & LFR. Every tier increases the droprates in the previous LFR, making it more like a glorified loot dungeon.



  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    mop is alt unfriendly regardless of the 496 drops and burdens. guilds don't want toons without cloak and that's 3-4 months of farming old lfrs for RNG drops per toon(that's with them reducing the valor needed to 3 weeks before even reaching the ToT tedium)
    You have the cloak on your main - so your alt gets access to Ordos warforged drops from day one after dinging.
    Sure - if you're going to raid seriously with your alt, you'll need to grind the drops for the cloak.. and that's a bit of a pain, but it's your alt after all - I don't think you should be "HC-ready" from day one and I don't think any previous catch-up mechanic allowed for that either.

  18. #18
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamyz View Post
    You have the cloak on your main - so your alt gets access to Ordos warforged drops from day one after dinging.
    Sure - if you're going to raid seriously with your alt, you'll need to grind the drops for the cloak.. and that's a bit of a pain, but it's your alt after all - I don't think you should be "HC-ready" from day one.
    And by now anyone serious about normal or heroic mode raiding would have that cloak.



  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Timless Isle's 496 isn't a catch-up mechanic? Really? In one evening I was participating in SoO LFR on my monk as soon as he hit 90; I had tons of 496 leather gear in my bank + what he picked up + a weapon I crafted him.

    I still contend that the gearing strat hasn't changed. Instead of dungeons it is Timeless Isle & LFR. Every tier increases the droprates in the previous LFR, making it more like a glorified loot dungeon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamyz View Post
    It used to be bad. Now it's fine - Timeless Isle + couple of Burdens gets you in SoO LFR range, which gets you in SoO Flex range, which gets you in Normal range (and after that, I guess you can consider your alt as "caught-up")

    Yes, there's a element of RNG in LFR drops, but honestly, it's not that terrible...
    LFR is not suitable for alt-catch-up. It just does not compare to what was there before LFR, regardless of what you say. Being able to enter SoO LFR is not having "caught up".

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by greysaber View Post
    new level 60s had access to world bosses

    new level 70s had access to world bosses

    blizzard skipped world bosses for 80 and 85...

    etc...

    edit: oops i forgot, level 80 had VoA bosses in WG and 85 had the tol barad stuff, so 80 and 85 did have 'freshly dinged top level' bosses available.
    there where world bosses in every cataclysm zone fyi
    stil are to this day

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