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  1. #41
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Well, by that logic neither was adding Death Knight or Windwalker Monk since we already have melee DPS in the game. I think there's more flexibility at the "role" level vs. the concept level (f.ex Necromancer would seriously clash with Death Knight since they're both about skeletons and plagues).
    Windwalker Monks and DKs added a new take on the DPS role via their class themes. Sure as a Warrior I could cleave opponents apart with 2H swords, however with DKs, I could spread diseases and raise skeletons while swinging around a 2H sword.

    I'm not saying that more melee healing shouldn't be added. I'm simply saying the concept of melee healing isn't something new to WoW. Part of the problem is that Schwarkopf doesn't view Fistweaving as melee healing, when actuality it most definitely is.

    Really, it's vague enough that you could put it inside anyone and anything. All you need to do is justify the touch-range gimmick, which is easily imagined into almost any class concept since nothing in RPGs follows very stringent logic, haha.
    Okay, but the topic is interesting class ideas, not interesting but vague spec ideas. So I'd like Schwarkopf to expand his/her idea into a full class concept.

  2. #42
    OP, those are the normal suggesstions for new classes that aren't Demon Hunter...

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So I'd like Schwarkopf to expand his/her idea into a full class concept.
    TRUE HEALER CLASS - Version 0.01

    Balance issues aside (there would need to be balance testing done on it). Also, I don't know exactly how the other specs would work - possibly melee dps and/or tank spec. Maybe this could be added to a rogue class as a 4th spec.
    Flavour needs to be added (these are just the basics of what the class can do). Additional abilities similar to those found already (dodge etc) would also be included as this guy

    Passive Abilities :
    • Regenerate wounds. True Healer regenerates health back at 5% of maximum health per second.
    • Healer's stamina. True healer has Stamina/Spirit as important stats (a true healer will generally have twice the benefit from stamina as a normal tank)
    • Healer's will. True healer has a chance to ignore the effects of death effects, translating instead to dmg equal to 90% max health instead.
      True healer has a chance to ignore the effects of over time effects (except DoTs) such as CC effects.
      These chances are higher on retrieved taken from a target.

    True healers and secondary stats:
    • HASTE : They benefit from haste, allowing more 'attacks' similar to some melee dps classes. This increases the frequency of healing strikes.
    • CRITICAL : Increases the retrieved and/or delivered wound - without changing the amount the healer takes/uses.
    • MASTERY : Increases the proportion of a retrieved wound that is delivered to an enemy.


    Attack : A true healer can attack a friendly target and do one of several things, these abilities generate very little threat (with the exception of death effect reversal). A true healer can multi-attack up to 3 friendly targets within melee, however their wounds will all be retrieved simultaneously, increasing the risk to the healer of death.

    Primary abilities
    1. Transfer a small amount of their health to the target
    2. Transfer a recent wound, or wounds from the target to themselves in the entirety.
    3. Transfer a current DoT, or DoTs from the target to themselves.
    4. Transfer any other non damage non-magic (disease, curse etc) over time effect to themselves.
    5. Reverse a recent death effect, and retrieve it from a target - doesn't count against BR totals. Generates large threat.

    Secondary abilities
    1. Give a portion of a recently retrieved wound to an enemy target (+hit requirements apply).
    2. Give a portion of the duration of a recently retrieved DoT or non damage over time effect to an enemy (normal +hit and immunities apply).
    3. Temporarily steal stamina from an enemy target (stamina - not health), reducing the maximum health accordingly for the duration.
    4. Ability to wield weapon and wear amour as per rogue, without rogue special abilities of course (the only real solo dps the true healer has).

    Retrieved wounds are those taken from a friendly target, and are treated differently to those wounds received directly from an enemy. The true healer's abilities do not work on received wounds (except for as described in the passives).
    Last edited by schwarzkopf; 2014-01-02 at 03:35 PM.

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    That would definitely mix things up in WoW, and is really kind of cool. It would also make for hilarious instant-90 dungeon runs with people who have no clue how to use it, hahaha.

    But it's a little hard to conceptualize since it's so different. Can you walk us through a brief example "rotation" to show how you want it to play during an actual fight? Imagine like 30 seconds of a boss fight, or going through 1 dungeon pull, what do you expect the player to be looking for / reacting to / doing?

    Also it does need some lore ideas to make it a 'true' class, but that doesn't mean it has to be a copypaste of a preexisting class in the Warcraft canon. What's your rough, basic vision for the class' history and purpose in the Warcraft world?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    But it's a little hard to conceptualize since it's so different. Can you walk us through a brief example "rotation" to show how you want it to play during an actual fight? Imagine like 30 seconds of a boss fight, or going through 1 dungeon pull, what do you expect the player to be looking for / reacting to / doing?
    Many of the original 'healers' in myth would take the broken leg from a target, then recover from the broken leg themselves. So I'm basing this on that style of origin - rather than a completely new idea.

    Fundamentally - the player would be targeting the tank, much the way a rogue would be targeting the boss. In essence, you make melee attacks on the tank and if you hit (depending on which ability to hit with) you remove some wound (and associated effects or damage) from the tank. Your play style is pretty much about managing your own health pool such that you don't die - and managing the health pool of your target(s) as a normal healer does.

    Attack - take last major wound
    Attack - take last major wound.
    Attack - give 1% of my health to target
    .
    .
    CD - retrieve all applicable DoTs.
    .
    not too sure what you want....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Also it does need some lore ideas to make it a 'true' class, but that doesn't mean it has to be a copypaste of a preexisting class in the Warcraft canon. What's your rough, basic vision for the class' history and purpose in the Warcraft world?
    As for lore - I'm not an expert in WoW lore, but this form of healer is the purest form of healer in much of the general fantasy lore I've read over the decades.

    The rogue is pretty much the closest class I can come up with in play style as you are really trying to avoid being hit whilst in melee, so it is possible that some bunch of rogues went 'good' and decided to heal rather than harm etc.
    Last edited by schwarzkopf; 2014-01-03 at 08:41 AM.

  6. #46
    I totally want an alchemist class. Not like putricide or the alchemy meth-making potion-guzzling shit. I want FMA transmutations damn it.

  7. #47
    Coming back late to this thread, was away for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warlocks do all of that now in the game. And you can enslave Satyrs using enslave demon.
    Not quite. The Demonology Warlock still does most of the damage compared to her demon. What I had proposed was a system where the Warlock (somehow) takes a back seat and the Demon(s) do most of the damage. Perhaps having the ability to control two Demons at once.

    As for the enslavement, I was thinking more along the lines of grabbing a world Demon, bottling it in a "nether prison" and pulling out later as a pet. The enslaved Demon's level and stats would scale up or down to match the Warlock's level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This thread highlights just how limited the remaining class options really are, and gives credence to a tinker/tech-class being the final class implemented into the game. Anything else simply overlaps with existing classes far too much to be a viable option.
    One class type they haven't implemented properly is a specialist debuffer class. Warlocks started this way, but quickly developed into a full-blooded DPS class. I'm thinking of a class with limited hard-casted DPS abilities, but has strong CC, reflective damage (which counts as DPS), mana drain and corrupted healing abilities. I was scoping this out just as a fun exercise, but so far I've found that while this is easy to do for PvP, making it viable for PvE is a little harder.
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  8. #48
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyptheria View Post
    Coming back late to this thread, was away for a while.



    Not quite. The Demonology Warlock still does most of the damage compared to her demon. What I had proposed was a system where the Warlock (somehow) takes a back seat and the Demon(s) do most of the damage. Perhaps having the ability to control two Demons at once.

    As for the enslavement, I was thinking more along the lines of grabbing a world Demon, bottling it in a "nether prison" and pulling out later as a pet. The enslaved Demon's level and stats would scale up or down to match the Warlock's level.
    Again, Warlocks can already do that. Their summoned demons are already "imprisoned", and those demons do occur in areas where demons exist. Also Warlocks have a talent that allows them to summon a second demon.

    I admire the effort, but you seriously can't base an entire class off of 2 things you think a Warlock can't do. Especially when they can pretty much do what you're suggesting already. Its like advocating for a class that summons two Elementals because Shaman can't do it.

    One class type they haven't implemented properly is a specialist debuffer class. Warlocks started this way, but quickly developed into a full-blooded DPS class. I'm thinking of a class with limited hard-casted DPS abilities, but has strong CC, reflective damage (which counts as DPS), mana drain and corrupted healing abilities. I was scoping this out just as a fun exercise, but so far I've found that while this is easy to do for PvP, making it viable for PvE is a little harder.
    You should start a thread and see how popular such a concept would be.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I admire the effort, but you seriously can't base an entire class off of 2 things you think a Warlock can't do.
    I wasn't. That was simply my concept/vision for the Demonology spec itself, long before we were given Meta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, Warlocks can already do that. Their summoned demons are already "imprisoned", and those demons do occur in areas where demons exist. Also Warlocks have a talent that allows them to summon a second demon.
    Summon it yes. Control it, no. Let me clarify: I would like to be able to trap a Satyr or a Pit Lord or even a Gan'arg, or some other Demon that isn't in my spell book, bring it to a raid or a dungeon, pull it out whenever I feel like it and use it as a second pet (but still under my control). It would obviously have its own set of abilities and its own pet bar. So rather than having GoServ as a burst ability, have a second pet for more consistent damage.

    I've no idea exactly how it would work in a raid situation, and perhaps controlling two pets in a raid setting might be too much, but the end result would be that the pets damage would count as 'lock damage, and the skill would be in controlling the pets successfully, since they would have a much more enhanced set of abilities and would be responsible for the majority of the damage output. Perhaps have it so that the Warlock delivered the DoTs and the Demons did most of the direct damage? Dunno, I was just never an advocate of turning into a Demon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You should start a thread and see how popular such a concept would be.
    Maybe, but I've seen how people behave around here when others have done so - it seems to be 99% negative, 1% positive. Would you mind if I PM'd you with the concept(s) once I've fleshed them out?
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  10. #50
    I like some of the notions surrounding the "True Healer," schwarzkopf -- can already tell that'd be an absolute terror to fight in Arena though.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    I like some of the notions surrounding the "True Healer," schwarzkopf -- can already tell that'd be an absolute terror to fight in Arena though.
    I like it too, it's funny how it got totally ignored though

  12. #52
    I want to see a summoner class where you a permanent pet or army, and summon ephemeral monsters nonstop.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Want something weird - focus in the missing zones:

    Tank (X) Melee ( ) Ranged
    Heal ( ) Melee (X) Ranged
    DPS (X) Melee (X) Ranged

    I've worked out a melee healer idea based on the original fantasy 'true' healer (that doesn't use mana).
    Doesn't pally qualify as

    Heal (X) Melee ( ) Ranged?

    I want a shapeshifter or were-mutant.

  13. #53
    You want a shapeshifer huh, never bothered paying attention to a druid or even better a worgen druid xD

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyptheria View Post
    As for the enslavement, I was thinking more along the lines of grabbing a world Demon, bottling it in a "nether prison" and pulling out later as a pet. The enslaved Demon's level and stats would scale up or down to match the Warlock's level.
    Like pokemon? You'd have to capture tons before raids like vanilla soul shards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cokecan View Post
    You want a shapeshifer huh, never bothered paying attention to a druid or even better a worgen druid xD
    I want were-beasts, not bears and cats.

  15. #55
    Mechagnome Jaojin's Avatar
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    I would love to see profession perks become an active part of a player's class; but that would no longer make them optional choices (only to the cutting edge are they required currently, the perks are less than 1% throughput) and I seriously doubt they would change that. They have stated multiple times that they don't want professions to skew class balance.

    And for those of you posting about armor usage among the classes apparently haven't read about item changes in Warlords (or have conveniently omitted those lines to arbitrarily reinforce your pov). There is no more intellect plate. There is just Plate. There is no intellect Mail. There is just Mail. The primary stats (Intellect, Strength, Agility) will change to whatever spec you are currently using. ALL Plate will have Intellect if you are a paladin in Holy spec, and ALL plate will have Strength if you are every other plate wearing class/spec. Your armor breakdowns are no longer relevant.

    Edit: (Yes I am aware the post is old, the information was posted long before the beginning of December though)
    Last edited by Jaojin; 2014-01-18 at 07:18 PM.
    "And what's the real lesson? Don't leave food in the fridge."
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    Like pokemon? You'd have to capture tons before raids like vanilla soul shards.
    You mean if it gets killed? There's ways around that. For example:

    "The Nether Prison traps the Demon's soul. Upon summoning, a suitable body is fashioned using the power of the Twisting Nether. Upon death, the Demon's soul is forcibly pulled back into the Prison, ready to be summoned and embodied once again."

    I noticed your name. You watch Babylon 5 too?
    Felguard/Wrathguard Weapon Pageant

    "Tell them only that Kael'thas is dead...and that Illidan Stormrage...died with him...for this setback, we were NOT prepared..."

  17. #57
    If a Tinkerer class were to come to be, I'd hope that they can deploy mechanical pets and turrets. It'd be someone that is an insanely skilled engineer, that can tinker and tweak anything to use as a tool.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyptheria View Post
    I noticed your name. You watch Babylon 5 too?
    No. Actually, my username is just an expression of John Doe.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    profession perks. your move.
    The word, "significant." your move.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogums View Post
    The word, "significant." your move.
    Saying "Your Move", in an unspecified context because you couldn't think of anything insightful to say.
    Someone other than myself's move.

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