Thread: Troll Warlocks

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  1. #1

    Troll Warlocks

    Greetings, all of you Trolls!

    So, it's clear to me that Trolls are one of the best Horde races for Warlocks, but just how significant are their racial abilities in practice?

    I'm assuming that race choice ultimately has very minor impact on over all DPS during the course of the encounter, however the burst potential of Troll Warlocks compared to other races is what piqued my interest, which should be significant enough considering their racial gives them 20% haste?

    What are your thoughts? Would appreciate some data regarding this, it will make it easier for me to chose which race to play as. Aesthetically I like Orcs, Trolls and Undead whom I prefer slightly more than the 2 other races so if the racial bonus is not very significant I would probably end up with a female Undead Warlock.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Orc and Troll racials are pretty close in the long run from the sims I've seen posted here. If you look in the stickied 5.4 threads, at least the demonology one, you may notice that the dps difference is pretty minor- especially considering that Orcs also do 2% more pet damage. Granted, trolls win hands-down on any beast-type boss.

    Honestly, I always pick the race I want to stare at for hours while playing, the race that I think looks good in armor, or the race that fits my mental image of what my character should be. Troll berserking does seem more prone to coordinated burst than a lot of racials, it's maybe the only one I'd pick a race for- but my warlock is an Orc. I have several Orcs, and several Blood Elves- I just seem to prefer those characters.

    Keep in mind that because of other haste procs (sinister primal diamond, bloodlust), berserking may be overkill and thus not useful during burst phases, which limits it a bit. Destruction in particular seems to have problems with GCD-capping during haste procs.

    According to the 5.4 demonology sticky, Troll racial abilities have a 1.7% higher "score" compared to Undead during simulation. This seems well within a player's margin of error and probably matters little-none in the long run compared to RNG and just deviation within a player's performance.
    Last edited by Zargul; 2013-12-23 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Additional info from stickied thread

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    as it stands now orc or troll is the way to go imo. but with possible racial changes and the removal of reforging i dont think min/max will be taken into account with new racials if we get them. . . as in no more BF or berserk.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadosin View Post
    Greetings, all of you Trolls!

    So, it's clear to me that Trolls are one of the best Horde races for Warlocks, but just how significant are their racial abilities in practice?

    I'm assuming that race choice ultimately has very minor impact on over all DPS during the course of the encounter, however the burst potential of Troll Warlocks compared to other races is what piqued my interest, which should be significant enough considering their racial gives them 20% haste?

    What are your thoughts? Would appreciate some data regarding this, it will make it easier for me to chose which race to play as. Aesthetically I like Orcs, Trolls and Undead whom I prefer slightly more than the 2 other races so if the racial bonus is not very significant I would probably end up with a female Undead Warlock.

    Thank you
    Trolls may have a slight advantage with berserking, but they look like total shit as casters. I would much prefer an orc or undead.
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  5. #5
    I went troll during ToT because the opening doom was so important and getting as much haste in to that thing was really nice. It's still nice for the dooms and it is really good for affliction. It's not quite as good for destro but it helps with getting some embers in the opener and burst later if you need it.
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  6. #6
    Troll is by far best race for warlock

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Likvidator View Post
    Troll is by far best race for warlock
    For most -if not all- casters actually and this is a huge design flaw.
    You should choose to play whatever you like and not force to go with ugly feet because it's better by design.
    If you take a quick look in WoL the 95% of the ranked casters 1-30 are trolls or goblins.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamswow View Post
    I went troll during ToT because the opening doom was so important and getting as much haste in to that thing was really nice. It's still nice for the dooms and it is really good for affliction. It's not quite as good for destro but it helps with getting some embers in the opener and burst later if you need it.
    Even as Destro Troll is much better than any other race. It's not even close. 1% haste/crit or Blood Fury can't compete with Berserking. Just check it in SimCraft. The difference between Troll and Orc for a full heroic geared player is around 20k dps.

  9. #9
    As destro I don't find tons of haste that useful when you are already getting close to GCD capping. I'm not saying it's worse but I do think saying it's amazing for destro is a bit of a stretch. But like I said before I do think it is great for affliction and demo so if you are going to be raiding on this character soon and you have the choice to be any class going troll is a no brainer. Just remember that they talked about maybe rebalancing the classes so if you aren't going to be raiding on it at a meaningful level then pick what looks best to you!

    I was just going off of this thing from Sparkuggz site. I'm not sure if it's been outdated but his stuff usually doesn't let me down.

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  10. #10
    The Patient
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    Troll has and always will be the best race for Affliction.

    Plus it's a troll what more do you want. 10 level 90 trolls <3
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    Trolls may have a slight advantage with berserking, but they look like total shit as casters. I would much prefer an orc or undead.
    It's very fortunate that you can make up your mind so easily, the decision is harder for me and I feel like you misunderstood my question. I'm not looking for people's opinion on which race looks better, I've already made up my mind and I happen to like Trolls, Orcs and Undead almost equally.

    Anyway, so far this thread has been fruitless, it only confirmed what I believed to be the case which is that Trolls are the best Horde race, but it did not answer my question regarding the burst which is what I'm most interested in. Any idea what the difference in numbers I could expect on a short fight with average gear between Troll, Orc & Undead?

    Thank you

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadosin View Post
    Any idea what the difference in numbers I could expect on a short fight with average gear between Troll, Orc & Undead?

    Thank you
    We cannot magically pluck a number out of the air, if that's what you're looking for. There's no "troll = 5k dps increase and that's final" statement to be made. It depends on how good your gear is, how long the fight is. Just saying "average gear" is a bit general.

    The one thing I can tell you is that Troll is better on shorter fights. You get a 3-4 minute long encounter (IJ is almost getting there, Malkorok too) and the extra burst which Berserking provides through insanely buffed dots on the pull will win out.
    Last edited by Liquidsteel; 2013-12-25 at 07:41 PM.



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  13. #13
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Likvidator View Post
    Troll is by far best race for warlock
    Luckily this is not true. It is the best race for warlocks - true. But as of 5.4 it's by no means the best race by far. Actually it's quite close to Worgen, Orcs and Goblins. The difference is less than 1% DPS for Destruction - just for an example.
    1% is much less than you will ever be able to notice in a real boss fight.
    Only specc where saying "by far" can possibly be justified is Affliction.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Even as Destro Troll is much better than any other race. It's not even close. 1% haste/crit or Blood Fury can't compete with Berserking. Just check it in SimCraft. The difference between Troll and Orc for a full heroic geared player is around 20k dps.
    You will NEVER notice in a real fight, because there are a ton of other influences that make a much bigger impact to your performance. Bad or lucky trinket proccs to name one example.
    Also if you would have simcrafted the difference between Orc and Troll for a full heroic geared Destruction Warlock, you would have noticed, that the difference is about 4-5k - not 20k!

    I think most people exaggerate the influence of races today because numbers sound so huge these days - but in relation to the whole DPS, they are in fact very low.
    Last edited by Melian; 2013-12-25 at 08:35 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    We cannot magically pluck a number out of the air, if that's what you're looking for. There's no "troll = 5k dps increase and that's final" statement to be made. It depends on how good your gear is, how long the fight is. Just saying "average gear" is a bit general.
    First of all I never asked for a definitive answer rounded to 3 decimal places as you seem to believe, that is an overly exaggerated assumption on your part. With the lose criteria which I provided all I'm expecting is for some numbers that would be somewhat relevant and from there on I could make my own conclusions.

    Also, I did provide the length of the fight (short) and gear (average) which you seem to have missed and for simplicity let's say the fight is a very standard Patchwerk style fight. I really don't see the point why you are wasting your time with this worthless reply of yours.
    Last edited by Nadosin; 2013-12-25 at 08:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    If they make the change to DoT snap-shotting then it will not make a real difference since the whole "Line everything up at once" game will be less of a game changer. Yeah it will always help and using it during a cooldown period will nett you more DpS but in the long run shouldn't change that much really.

    That being said Trolls look cool so why would you NOT take them?
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  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadosin View Post
    First of all I never asked for a definitive answer rounded to 3 decimal places as you seem to believe, that is an overly exaggerated assumption on your part. With the lose criteria which I provided all I'm expecting is for some numbers that would be somewhat relevant and from there on I could make my own conclusions.

    Also, I did provide the length of the fight (short) and gear (average) which you seem to have missed and for simplicity let's say the fight is a very standard Patchwerk style fight. I really don't see the point why you are wasting your time with this worthless reply of yours.
    Don't get all keyboard warrior on me with your sarcastic "you must have missed that". I even told you the two 'patchwerk' fights are like 4 minutes long.

    I just told you that Troll is the best for a short fight. If you really want to know how much dps gain the difference is then open up simcraft and import your character. Set the fight length to whatever is closest to 4 minutes and just change your race between troll/orc/goblin. You haven't linked your character so it is impossible to give you numbers. Quit the bullshit with 'decimal place' sarcasm. It's impossible to give you your answer.

    You edited out my second paragraph where I explicitly told you that Troll is the best on such fights. This is especially true for Affliction and Demonology who can snapshot dots for insane opening burst which Berserking is very, very good for.

    You said 'average gear' but what the fuck is average? Majority of people are in LFR gear. Or do you mean average as in normal? Or average of heroic?



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  17. #17
    The Patient Shanxys's Avatar
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    Their pungy disgusting feet make a such a stench that it forms an added racial AoE DoT increasing their damage. If a troll covers your face with his foot and holds it, you immediately pass out so it's good for CC as well.



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  18. #18
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Let's keep the discussion civil, guys. No need to take this personal, and please vent the frustration in other places than this forum.

    To the OP...
    ... The troll racial functions in a way that highly benefits burst, and even more so DoTs. The shorter the duration of the fight, the larger impact the racial will have. I can understand your frustration with us not giving you hard numbers for your character, but I believe we can simplify it to saying you will notice a difference on the fights of average lengths, and on the shorter ones you'll see vast improvement.
    It may be a bit hard to pull off as Destruction compared to Affliction or Demonology, but either of the last two should grant you an increase you'll notice fairly quick. I can at least (anecdotally, mind you) say that the difference between orc and troll is bigger than what people apparently seem to think. There's a clear winner.
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  19. #19
    Racials and profession perk differences are not that great. And heroic geared or not berserking gives the same bonus regardless. The only ones that scale are like beast slayer.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Don't get all keyboard warrior on me with your sarcastic "you must have missed that". I even told you the two 'patchwerk' fights are like 4 minutes long.

    I just told you that Troll is the best for a short fight. If you really want to know how much dps gain the difference is then open up simcraft and import your character. Set the fight length to whatever is closest to 4 minutes and just change your race between troll/orc/goblin. You haven't linked your character so it is impossible to give you numbers. Quit the bullshit with 'decimal place' sarcasm. It's impossible to give you your answer.

    You edited out my second paragraph where I explicitly told you that Troll is the best on such fights. This is especially true for Affliction and Demonology who can snapshot dots for insane opening burst which Berserking is very, very good for.

    You said 'average gear' but what the fuck is average? Majority of people are in LFR gear. Or do you mean average as in normal? Or average of heroic?
    First and perhaps most importantly I replied to your rude and passively-aggressive reply in similar fashion, as expected you did not take very kindly to it, maybe it's something to keep in mind for future conversations? Hmm? :3

    I cannot link my character because the said character doesn't exist yet, the race which I chose might be dictated by the outcome of this thread. By 'average' what I meant was exactly that, and you seem to have guessed correctly the first time ( wasn't that difficult to figure out, was it?) it's the average gear of your average player (i.e. majority of players) which would be a combination of LFR/Flex/Normal loot.

    What I'm trying to roughly gauge here is the scale, some numbers as to what kind of burst potential Berserking brings to the table. You telling me that Troll will be definitely better is synonymous to telling me that the apple will drop to the ground when I let go of it.

    Also, it is perfectly possible to provide me with an answer, for example someone who has recently race changed to a Troll might remember some numbers. Just because you are unable to provide me with an answer does not make it impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Let's keep the discussion civil, guys. No need to take this personal, and please vent the frustration in other places than this forum.

    To the OP...
    ... The troll racial functions in a way that highly benefits burst, and even more so DoTs. The shorter the duration of the fight, the larger impact the racial will have. I can understand your frustration with us not giving you hard numbers for your character, but I believe we can simplify it to saying you will notice a difference on the fights of average lengths, and on the shorter ones you'll see vast improvement.
    It may be a bit hard to pull off as Destruction compared to Affliction or Demonology, but either of the last two should grant you an increase you'll notice fairly quick. I can at least (anecdotally, mind you) say that the difference between orc and troll is bigger than what people apparently seem to think. There's a clear winner.
    I apologise, will try to refrain from entertaining myself with such replies in the future. However, the temptation sometimes is very strong especially since I'm considering playing a Troll. I'm not frustrated at the fact that I haven't received an ideal answer so far, after all I started this thread knowing that I might not get the ideal answer in the first place but it is worth a shot.
    Last edited by Nadosin; 2013-12-25 at 09:38 PM.

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