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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    Ya I guess every warlock that killed these bosses top 20 in the world during progression were all just padding. There was no real reason we played one spec over the other except for the fact that we could pad pad pad. Yep. You caught us. I really don't think you understand or comprehend what exactly padding is. This topics been answered enough already so I'll just leave this thread now.

    Don't flex too hard. You might burst something like you did on Iron Jug.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I think you missed his point, which is regardless of whether or not there is a squish, it already doesn't matter. The difference is that post squish instead of being a 3k difference, which to your mind seems significant, the difference between the two profs will be "3". So your mind will automatically switch to "the difference between the two is not tangible enough to measure". So he's saying he wished the squish was already here not because it would make a difference in your min/max's but rather because it would stop people from obsessing over them quite to the extent they are today.

    You are talking about a 0.75% difference between the two profs on a perfect simulated fight. Every variable will swing the pendulum back and forth as to which prof is better. I would suggest, personally, playing what you enjoy - due to the very small difference. Otherwise, if you can't enjoy it unless you feel you have maxed (which I can understand as well), follow what those ahead of you are doing. It's working for them and the difference on the sim isn't substantial enough to overrule the ruling on the field.
    I think this just highlights the bigger issue where people look at the figures produced by simcraft as absolute values, rather than averages of the 10k iterations that they actually are. If you look into the numbers that produce those averages, there's pretty substantial variances at the very baseline; my own argument for Engineering and Herbalism over the other professions would be that with those bonuses being on-use, they would confer you the most control over reducing that variance on a per-encounter basis. The downside is that you stand to lose more if you screw up. On balance though, I just don't feel like the benefits are worth the investment to replace the profs I have when I have alts with Herb/Eng already.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Don't flex too hard. You might burst something like you did on Iron Jug.
    Ad hominem

    A shame really.

  4. #44
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Just gonna say it very early on, this discussion spinning out of control is something that'll get hammered very fast. Keep it on tracks in a civilized manner.
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  5. #45
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Don't flex too hard. You might burst something like you did on Iron Jug.
    Lol. Good ole jugg.

    Gotta love people spreading out for mechanics... and by spreading out I mean standing on the warlocks portal. RIP. Good times.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Just gonna say it very early on, this discussion spinning out of control is something that'll get hammered very fast. Keep it on tracks in a civilized manner.
    The threads long since been debated, answered, and derailed may as well close it if you're worried about it.

  7. #47
    Stood in the Fire silver9172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoisms View Post
    BACON! I totally agree, you shouldn't have to be goated into Herb/Engi and Troll as a Warlock. I just don't see the nerfs / squishes happening. They honestly try to do it every expansion in one way or another and the hardcores always tell em no.
    What other expansion did they try to do an item squish in any way? They only started talking about it during MoP beta because they knew that by the end the numbers would be out of control. The item squish was already in the WoD preview at Blizzcon, so chances are its staying.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by silver9172 View Post
    What other expansion did they try to do an item squish in any way? They only started talking about it during MoP beta because they knew that by the end the numbers would be out of control. The item squish was already in the WoD preview at Blizzcon, so chances are its staying.
    It's staying because it kinda has to, there's a hitpoint limit and it'd require a bunch of other tech improvements which in turn would just bump up client hardware requirements. Better all around to squish things and take a bunch of strain off the clients' machines than to add to it.

  9. #49
    Herbalism is BY FAR superior for Demo and Affliction. Destro it is only very slightly better than Tailoring. /discussion

  10. #50
    The Patient
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    BS and ENC beats all period.

  11. #51
    High Overlord Santoisms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyronic View Post
    Herbalism is BY FAR superior for Demo and Affliction. Destro it is only very slightly better than Tailoring. /discussion
    According to the simcraft I run for my personal gear set-up / optimization Herbalism sims 2.7k DPS higher than Tailoring for Destruction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodjunky22 View Post
    BS and ENC beats all period.
    BS isn't good for Warlocks since there is no secondary stat gems. INT isn't the best stat for us and thus shouldn't be taken as a profession. The reason why Herbalism is good because you can snapshot more powerful spells in each spec with the short 10 second trinkets / berserking.

  12. #52
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoisms View Post
    According to the simcraft I run for my personal gear set-up / optimization Herbalism sims 2.7k DPS higher than Tailoring for Destruction.

    - - - Updated - - -



    BS isn't good for Warlocks since there is no secondary stat gems. INT isn't the best stat for us and thus shouldn't be taken as a profession. The reason why Herbalism is good because you can snapshot more powerful spells in each spec with the short 10 second trinkets / berserking.
    You are confusing BS with JC.


    Regardless, Herbalism + Engi or Herbalism + Tailoring ( on non movement fights) appear to be BIS Professions atm.
    I run with Engi + Tailoring though, playing destruction most of the time so the loss from Herb>Tailoring is very very very very very very very very very small. Engi is just too OP for 'oh shit' situations or delaying your movement to get out another chaos bolt, and then using the nitro boosts to still make it somewhere in time.
    At the current state the game is in atm, the difference between Herb/BS/tailoring is so minute for Destruction ( The difference is slightly more noticible for affliction), there is so many other random factors going on that in real raid situations you will not notice the difference between those 3 specs. Engineering is the exception here, you will notice the shit out of that
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  13. #53
    High Overlord Santoisms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    You are confusing BS with JC.


    Regardless, Herbalism + Engi or Herbalism + Tailoring ( on non movement fights) appear to be BIS Professions atm.
    I run with Engi + Tailoring though, playing destruction most of the time so the loss from Herb>Tailoring is very very very very very very very very very small. Engi is just too OP for 'oh shit' situations or delaying your movement to get out another chaos bolt, and then using the nitro boosts to still make it somewhere in time.
    At the current state the game is in atm, the difference between Herb/BS/tailoring is so minute for Destruction ( The difference is slightly more noticible for affliction), there is so many other random factors going on that in real raid situations you will not notice the difference between those 3 specs. Engineering is the exception here, you will notice the shit out of that
    Yeah mistake on that, thanks for the change.

    With that being said, Herb/Engi IMO is the minmax way of doing it but like you said the difference is so minimal.

  14. #54
    High Overlord Bobthemongol's Avatar
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    Lets derail the thread about pets hoooya

  15. #55
    I don't agree that aff dmg is padding on Paragons (It's actually pretty damn good) but I also don't think it's fair to say that just because top 20 warlocks killed paragons as aff, that they are somehow right. By the time they nerfed Aff and buffed destruction, we all had already killed Paragons.

    But yeah, Aff is very centered around burst now, so Herbalism gains a lot more value vs. how it shows up against other classes. I think people might not get it right away because they are used to the "standard rule" on professions with other classes where gathering professions are generally weaker. It's sort of the same with warriors and skinning, though not quite as severe. Eng/BS are their best profs but Skinning/JC follow after as those are the only other professions that give them crit.
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2014-01-02 at 03:28 AM.
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