1. #1
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Advice/Guidance for my next build, Round 2! (starter Adobe, Video, 3D)

    Hi guys! =) I made a thread a little while ago (here) asking for help figuring out parts for my next build, because I haven't had my head in PC stuff for a few years and felt totally lost.

    I got some nice ideas offered and it inspired me to get back into things and do a lot more research of my own. In the process, I learned a lot and I've changed some of my concepts and priorities. Basically I want to make sure I'm building to meet my needs, rather than spending money just to spend it. I think I got too greedy with my first concept and want to start a little more modestly. =)

    WHAT I DEFINITELY DO
    • Gaming, with preference for action/open world stuff (FPS, adventure, Far Cry, GW2, Just Cause, etc. kind of stuff)
    • 2D illustration/design with Photoshop / Illustrator / etc.

    WHAT I WANT TO EXPERIMENT WITH DOING
    • Recording/capturing gameplay
    • Editing (gameplay & 'IRL' content), and extensively. Not simple record > splice > compress > upload stuff.
    • Upload to videosharing (YouTube, etc.)
    • 3D art/design (Maya, Blender, etc. type stuff)
    • Animation (2D, 3D, machinima)

    BUILD GOALS
    • GAMING: Able to comfortably play modern/current games. I don't need max settings.
    • RECORDING: Should be able to play at settings "pretty enough" to be pleasant viewing if watched later.
    • BUDGET: Flexible. I'm happy to spend what this build requires to be effective. But I don't want to spend more than necessary just because I can; there's lots of other places money can go, and a lot of this is still experimental.
    • UPGRADEABILITY: Ideally, I'd like to start modestly (but effectively) and then have room to invest and scale up further once I've actually tried stuff, rather than hitting a dead-end and having to brick/start over the entire build.

    MY DILEMMA
    • The key word is 'experiment', and this is making it hard to figure out how much or how little I actually need for starters.
    • I want the build to be good enough that I can give these new mediums a solid, realistic experiment on a capable system.
    • But I don't want to go crazy, and build an over-priced, totally-overkill system for an experiment that might not work out.
    • This balancing act is where I'm getting confused/stuck about certain component decisions.

    THE COMPONENTS I AM TOTALLY LOST ABOUT
    • CPUs: Do I need i5 or i7? "K" or "not K"? Hyperthreading? Whatever "TSX" is?
    • MoBos: Hours of reading about these left me more confused than when I began. It's like trying to read a novel written in a bowl of Alpha-Bits.
    • GPUs: Some discussions say cheaper cards are terribly inferior; others say expensive cards are overpriced for minimal gains. I have no clue what I actually need to do my stuff.

    PERSONAL QUIRKS AND RULES
    • Intel CPU, NVIDIA GPU. I don't think there's anything wrong with AMD, I'm just being me.
    • No SLI. From my own research, this won't benefit me that much and adds headaches I don't want to deal with.
    • Overclocking scares me because all my past PCs died from overheating w/o me even changing any settings. But I'm willing to be open-minded about OC'ing if you think it's important.

    I can handle the other stuff I didn't mention; from my own research I feel confident about things like RAM, PSU, etc. And I'm happy to do the research/shopping myself, once I understand what I'm looking for. I just need some education about things like whether an i7, z87, 780, etc. is really necessary or just brain-candy.

    TY as always for your knowledge & experience. =)

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Biernot's Avatar
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    Without addressing all of your points/questions one-by-one, i hope i will cover them in my explanations nonetheless.


    CPU: Intel i5-4670k or i7-4770k
    For games and a lot of other software, the performance per core is what counts. This is because most software can only use 1-2 cores efficiently and the other ones are sitting there more or less idle. Currently Intel is superior in this regard, which is why an i3/i5 most of the time trumps even over AMD's 8-core FX CPUs. If it were purely for gaming, you would even be fine with an i3, since you don't want/need the highest settings.
    But here is were your other things come into play: If you want record/stream while playing, you add another task which occupies another core, so a an i3 (with 2 cores + HT) would need to start subtracting performance from the game tasks to cope with the additional ballast. So get at least a true 4-core (i5). It will be fine for everything you mentioned. You only need an i7, if you want to shave off a bit of time from rendering and encoding. If you would run such tasks for several hours a day, you should definitively get an i7 (maybe even a 6-core, socket 2011), but you listed them as experimental and i think you can wait for a few more minutes once in a while.
    As for (non)-K models: overclocking is the only way to get more performance for tasks that are not fully multi-threaded (such as games), so make sure to get an unlocked K model.

    RAM: 2x4GB or 2x8GB with 1600MHz or more
    Here it's a bit like with the CPU: 2x4GB will be absolutely fine for your tasks, but if you go a bit heavier into the stuff that is listed under experimental, then you should opt for 2x8GB, as those things can get memory-heavy if you go beyond the basics.
    The ram speed is not that important, just look at the prices. Often, the difference between 1333MHz and 1866MHz is quite small, so why not get the faster model?

    Motherboard: any Z87 model
    Chipset is a no-brainer: You get an unlocked cpu, so get a chipset which can overclock. Which specific model you get is actually not that important. Tests have shown, that there is no performance difference between a $100 board and one for $300. Even if you go into overclocking, cheap Z87 baords reach nearly the same clocks as high-end enthusiast models. Only if you really want to push the last bit, more expensive boards start to get a bit of an advantage, but that are regions where we are talking custom water cooling and de-lidding and other fancy stuff.
    Pick the board depending on the size, features and looks. In most cases, the features offered by the more expensive models are of little interest to you.

    CPU-Cooler: anything from mid- to high-end ($30+)
    If you do not overclock, even the stock heatsink is usually enough. But as we want to oc, pick something better. The typical budget recommendation would be a Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO (~$30) and it would be totally fine for a moderate overclock (say around 4.2GHz or a bit more). If you want to push for more and/or want it so be as silent as possible, then you should look for the better stuff (High end air coolers or closed loop water coolers) in the price regions of $60-100.

    GPU:
    If you want to play on nice settings and stuff, you should look into the mid or high end segment. A graphics card around $200 (GTX 660, Radeon 7870, Radeon 270x) will play any current game on at least high settings with decent frame rates (not much lower than 60fps). If you plan on getting a 2560x1440 display, then you should probably take a look at a higher gpu (GTX 770 / 780, Radeon 7970 / 280x / 290x).


    Upgrades: You should not concern yourself too much here.
    - By the time you upgrade the cpu, you will also need a new board, so get now what you need now.
    - Graphics cards will continue to use PCIe 16x for a while, so it should be as easy as get the old one out and a new one in.
    - If you start with "only" 8GB ram now, you can always just put additional sticks in.


    In the end, what you get depends on
    a.) your budget
    b.) how serious you want to take the "experimental stuff"


    Examples:


    1. What i would recommend
    PCPartPicker part list

    CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($231.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($33.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Microcenter)
    Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($76.98 @ OutletPC)
    Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($249.99 @ NCIX US)
    Total: $695.93


    2. What you could get (if you want to take the experimental stuff more seriously)
    PCPartPicker part list

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.99 @ Amazon)
    CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC14PE_BK 78.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($76.99 @ Newegg)
    Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Microcenter)
    Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($135.00 @ Newegg)
    Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($334.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Total: $956.95

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Took out the quotes as I wanted to give each of your point a looksie.

    Basically I want to make sure I'm building to meet my needs, rather than spending money just to spend it. I think I got too greedy with my first concept and want to start a little more modestly. =)

    WHAT I DEFINITELY DO
    • Gaming, with preference for action/open world stuff (FPS, adventure, Far Cry, GW2, Just Cause, etc. kind of stuff)
    • 2D illustration/design with Photoshop / Illustrator / etc.
    So for gaming, you need to ask yourself this: how long do you want your PC to last? General consensus - current games are 'usually' console ports, and last generation consoles have 4core CPU's. The new gen consoles have 8 cores. So in future games will be made to utilize more than 4 cores. Hence sure i5 could be considered 'better' now, but I peresonally chose i7 with future in mind.
    Photoshop / Illustrator / etc. would see a better performance with i7 if you work with hugely insane resolution/file size.

    WHAT I WANT TO EXPERIMENT WITH DOING
    • Recording/capturing gameplay
    • Editing (gameplay & 'IRL' content), and extensively. Not simple record > splice > compress > upload stuff.
    • Upload to videosharing (YouTube, etc.)
    • 3D art/design (Maya, Blender, etc. type stuff)
    • Animation (2D, 3D, machinima)
    All but uploading to videosharing, which would depend on your internet speed, will benefit greatly from stronger CPU (i7 over i5).
    Having slower CPU would increase the rendering time. Let me tell from personal experience doing this: you edit a video, let it render, process takes 3hours. While the video is rendering you can't do anything else on the PC. After 3h you watch the video to find 5second fix is needed. Then you render for 3hours again.
    Thinking about future, you can get i7 4770k, which is really nice without OC'ing, and then if you feel lacking you can always OC later.

    BUILD GOALS
    • GAMING: Able to comfortably play modern/current games. I don't need max settings.
    • RECORDING: Should be able to play at settings "pretty enough" to be pleasant viewing if watched later.
    • BUDGET: Flexible. I'm happy to spend what this build requires to be effective. But I don't want to spend more than necessary just because I can; there's lots of other places money can go, and a lot of this is still experimental.
    • UPGRADEABILITY: Ideally, I'd like to start modestly (but effectively) and then have room to invest and scale up further once I've actually tried stuff, rather than hitting a dead-end and having to brick/start over the entire build.
    What you need for #4 is ability to OC, as that is the biggest performance gain per money spent. But to do this you need to buy a proper system at the start. That includes more expensive Motherboard. Also if you buy with 8gb's of Ram, you need to buy no more than 2 sticks, so you have 2 slots open if you want to add more RAM in future (personally I bought 4x4gb and I don't intend to upgrade the RAM ever, if anything I will build new PC altogether, this PC should last me for at least 6y).
    You said you don't want SLI, so there is no other choice but to bite the bullet and get a 'more than decent' graphics card. The recording doesn't really take much resource, unless you do it with crap software with super insane settings. My old rig from 2007 was able to handle recording with no issues and minimal frame drop (3-5 FPS from 50ish).

    MY DILEMMA
    • The key word is 'experiment', and this is making it hard to figure out how much or how little I actually need for starters.
    • I want the build to be good enough that I can give these new mediums a solid, realistic experiment on a capable system.
    • But I don't want to go crazy, and build an over-priced, totally-overkill system for an experiment that might not work out.
    • This balancing act is where I'm getting confused/stuck about certain component decisions.
    I will be honest with you, I work in IT and I built my PC a few months ago, and let me tell you this: I would have done it completely differently today -_-
    Anyway, with some things you can't really experiment.
    There really is no other way around it, it's like saying "I want to hit 200mph with this new car, but only as an 'experiment' so I don't want to overspend".
    For example if you buy i5 and then find it lacking, you can't "add" more cores to it. The only way will be to buy a new CPU.
    Or if you buy a CPU with 'k' and mobo with no z87, you won't be able to OC if you ever with to do so, well not 'easy' anyway.
    Or if you buy a CPU without 'k' and mobo with z87, you won't be able to OC, not 'easy' anyway and not as much as you could otherwise.

    THE COMPONENTS I AM TOTALLY LOST ABOUT
    • CPUs: Do I need i5 or i7? "K" or "not K"? Hyperthreading? Whatever "TSX" is?
    • [Bs:[/B] Hours of reading about these left me more confused than when I began. It's like trying to read a novel written in a bowl of Alpha-Bits.
    • GPUs: Some discussions say cheaper cards are terribly inferior; others say expensive cards are overpriced for minimal gains. I have no clue what I actually need to do my stuff.]MoBo
    CPU's:
    i5 vs i7 = i7 has 'hyperthreading' making it virtually an 8 core processor. Plus i7 has more L3 cache making it 'faster'. Also i7 is a bit faster than i5 on stock.
    Hyperthreading effectively doubles the cores on the processor. For example i7 physically has 4 cores, but HT enables programs to 'think' there are 8 cores total. Now, how do cores matter? Well, think of a core as a human worker who can only do ONE JOB AT A TIME. So i5 = 4 human workers, while i7 = 4human workers but each has 4 hands, basicly making them do twice the work as normal worker. Now, putting it into real world. For example the 'job' for CPU is to fold paper. i5 has 4 workers, each fold one paper per second, the work is not hard they could do it with one hand, BUT they can't, so they the i5 folds 4 papers per second at 10% load. i7 has 4 works but with double the arm count, so each i7 worker can fold two papers per second, so an i7 can fold 8 papers per second at 10% load.
    But then if there is a job that requires 100% CPU load, they 'fictional' workers disappear and you are left with 4 workers on i7, since you have no room to 'borrow the brain' from. (wow I went on for some time with no real sense, I bet...).
    So I will simplify it (at least I'll try).
    i7 if: you have a video playing, while you listen to music when you are doing 2D (currently) and in future you want to pile up video rendering in background on all those.
    i5 otherwise.
    As to 'k' or 'no k'. I have the 'no k' i7 4771 and I can tell you two things:
    #1) 4770k is a bit mroe expensive with exactly the same parameters as 4771 (the 'no k' model of i7) but I would still chose it today
    #2) for some reason at stock speeds cinderbench lists 4770k higher than 4771, even though they are identical, at least on paper.
    "TSX" basicly speeds up multithreading programs, so programs that do use multi cores would work even better (all intel CPU's with 4xxx have it, 4771 has newer version though Intel® TSX-NI)

    Mobo's:
    You just basicly need to decide two things: if you want to OC or not in future :P if yes, search for z87 chip, if no h87 or even less.

    GPU's:
    Again, since I built my new rig a few moths ago I can give you some wordly advice:
    I debated between R7 and R9, I didn't really want to overspend like you, so I got the R7 260 (which is the best R7). But when I got it and I tested it/played it. The performance? Well, I was let down by it
    When I used to play, for example, world of warcraft, on my old pc I played it on medium and the new handles ultra, it's nice. But then you try newer games and sure it handles them on High, but Ultra is out of question.
    Side note: the R7 I had was faulty and I RMA'ed it, getting new card this week and I will try and change it for an R9.

    PERSONAL QUIRKS AND RULES
    • Intel CPU, NVIDIA GPU. I don't think there's anything wrong with AMD, I'm just being me.
    • No SLI. From my own research, this won't benefit me that much and adds headaches I don't want to deal with.
    • Overclocking scares me because all my past PCs died from overheating w/o me even changing any settings. But I'm willing to be open-minded about OC'ing if you think it's important.
    Even if OC'ing scares you, you need to ask yourself: how long do I want this PC to last? If you are fine with 2-3 years then don't bother with OC'ing, in my opinion.

    I can handle the other stuff I didn't mention; from my own research I feel confident about things like RAM, PSU, etc. And I'm happy to do the research/shopping myself, once I understand what I'm looking for. I just need some education about things like whether an i7, z87, 780, etc. is really necessary or just brain-candy.
    Well, certain things to keep in mind, besides everythin I mentioned:
    If you don't want to OC, at least in the begining, the stock cooler will be enough. You can always upgrade later.
    i5 vs i7: if you don't work with too many applications at once, the i7 might not justify itselfm keep in mind non-Oc'ed i5 will be slower worker than i7. Also no HT on i5 and lower L3 cache.
    k vs no-k: again, i7 4771 is cheaper than i7 4770k and a bit newer (REALLY nit-picking about that, you can find new stuff on 4471 vs 4770k). Also if you ABSOLUTELY loathe OC, then yea, buying 'k' is worthless (the 'k' version seems to be a bit more expensive).
    z87 vs anything else: z87 is only good if you want to OC, otherwise it has too many bells-and-whistless you will never even dream about needing.
    Also, don't do stupid shit like I did: I bought Vengeance ram, those is tall as a tree and my aftermarket CPU cooler hits the RAM radiator -_- Also for future, buy only 2 sticks of ram, either be it 2x8 or 2x4 and keep 2 slots free if you ever feel like you need more RAM.

    I personally went for i7 4771 on H87 motherboard.
    Let me know if you want to follow my build, I too have 'issues' about OCing

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biernot View Post
    Often, the difference between 1333MHz and 1866MHz is quite small, so why not get the faster model?
    Ugh, anything above 1600 is pointless if your CPU doesn't support it?

    HUGE warning about the Evo 212 cooler: I have and it was a BITCH to fit, also it is hugely tall and we did some measuring here at work and it wouldn't fit into a 'standart' ATC case :P
    I still think I need to reseat it, it wobbles around if I twist it with some force >.>
    Last edited by Cyrops; 2013-12-30 at 02:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal
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    i don't know if you already have a power supply, case or hard drives for your build so i added those in the list.

    CPU Cooler: i went for the Corsair h100i it costs a bit more then aircooling, but it has very good cooling, and the software included is very nice to read of your temperatures and adjusting fan speeds
    Motherboard: i went for a bit more expensive board. Because the RoG series boards are rock solid boards. and this board comes included with SupremeFx, wich gives very good and clear audio.
    Storage: for storage i went for ssd, as boot drive and for all your software, and 1 tb caviar black for storage, downloads, projects, fraps recordings etc.
    Video Card you said you wanted an Nvidia card, so i went with an asus GTX 780 with there DCII cooler on it for better cooling, this is a somewhat more expensive card, but it will handle pretty much anything you throw at it at ultra settings for the next few years, so its well worth the money i would say.
    Case: the case is completely your choice, i just went for the corsair c70 because it has all the room you need in it, strong handles ontop for easy carrying your computer, and has a window to show of your shinies.

    almost all parts exept the 2 hard drives are corsair / asus, they look very nice together wich is a nice bonus.

    i've not added a optical drive, as u can borrow it from a older computer as its only used once to instal os, and there is no other use for it afterwards, unless u plan on burning discs.

    again i added items to the list not knowing if you have them already, but you can easily remove them from the list, also the case is personal choice.

    PCPartPicker part list

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.99 @ TigerDirect)
    CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
    Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Hero ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($199.98 @ OutletPC)
    Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($149.99 @ Amazon)
    Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($97.99 @ Mac Mall)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.98 @ OutletPC)
    Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card ($525.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Case: Corsair C70 Gunmetal Black (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair Professional 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
    Total: $1628.88
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-30 08:34 EST-0500)

    I7 3770k @ 4,6 Ghz | Asus Maximus V Formula | Corsair H100i (CPU at 30 - 32 degrees under full load) | 16 Gb of Corsair Vengeance 1600 Mhz ram | Corsair HX750 watt PSU | Gigabyte 7970 |Samsung 830 pro 128 gb ssd | 1tb wd black | 2 tb wd green | Cooler Master Storm Stryker case |Logitech G19 keyboard | Logitech MK320 wireless mouse | LG 37" screen + 2 24" acer screens

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    You guys are amazing, TYSM. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond in so much detail, once again I understand everything a lot better than before. And thank you @Biernot, your two contrasting builds were exactly the kind of context I was trying to narrow down.

    So, okay. I thought all this over, and I think it makes more sense to just wait, save up more, and then build a really strong system. The relative price difference isn't that big, and if you guys think I'll actually benefit from the stronger parts, I trust you. The worst thing that happens is I end up with overkill that plays games on Ultra (haha). But that's better than ending up with too little and being stuck building all over again!

    And I can use this extra time to bug you guys with lots more questions, so I make sure I'm building the best system I can! >:D

    I looked into the 6-core Intel stuff you mentioned (I think it's 4930K?) and it has me thinking. This system-building thing is tricky because every better component is just $200-300 more, haha. Torture for an OCD min-maxer like me. I should probably stick to the 4770k price range if I ever want to actually get this built, but I appreciate the new ideas.

    (btw after being so used to reading game forum PC discussions, it's kind of funny to Google up professional-media forum discussions with comments like "4770K is a nice little processor on the cheap end", haha)

    Which leads me to a couple more questions:
    • Is a 4930K basically the same power as a 4770K, but with 6 cores? Or do you make trade-offs?
    • Are there any "bad" choices coming up? Sometimes I see build discussions warning people not to buy X component right now, because some big replacement is being released in a few months.
    • If everything is OK to buy in the near-future, these are the things I want, right? z87 chipset, whatever RAM is cheapest (it doesn't matter), i7 processor, and a GTX with a "7" in front. =)

    Also, I'm still a little confused about 4770K vs. 4771. I've read that 4770K has certain features disabled like uhm... the fancier version of TSX. Whereas the 4771 has overclocking disabled. Since Intel is being "that way" (sigh), which one offers the better benefit for the stuff I want to do?

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post

    I looked into the 6-core Intel stuff you mentioned (I think it's 4930K?) and it has me thinking. This system-building thing is tricky because every better component is just $200-300 more, haha. Torture for an OCD min-maxer like me. I should probably stick to the 4770k price range if I ever want to actually get this built, but I appreciate the new ideas.

    (btw after being so used to reading game forum PC discussions, it's kind of funny to Google up professional-media forum discussions with comments like "4770K is a nice little processor on the cheap end", haha)

    Which leads me to a couple more questions:
    • Is a 4930K basically the same power as a 4770K, but with 6 cores? Or do you make trade-offs?
    • Are there any "bad" choices coming up? Sometimes I see build discussions warning people not to buy X component right now, because some big replacement is being released in a few months.
    • If everything is OK to buy in the near-future, these are the things I want, right? z87 chipset, whatever RAM is cheapest (it doesn't matter), i7 processor, and a GTX with a "7" in front. =)

    Also, I'm still a little confused about 4770K vs. 4771. I've read that 4770K has certain features disabled like uhm... the fancier version of TSX. Whereas the 4771 has overclocking disabled. Since Intel is being "that way" (sigh), which one offers the better benefit for the stuff I want to do?
    First of all, the 4930k has 6 cores with HT that makes 12 logical cores. So yea, it's a beast BUT intel lists price at 550$, that's like whole budget PC
    Mmm bad choices, yea, my aftermarker cooler Evo 212 (very popular as it has copper instead of aluminum) is a bitch to install, plus it's super tall and you need to be absolutely sure it will fit your case, tall as a tree.
    So I have 4771 and it can run at 3.9GHz, if you have 4770k after OCing you can easily get it to run at 4.2GHz and if you push it you can get lucky and hit up to 5.2 on golden chip, but that would require extreme luck and extreme money
    RAM price does matter :P You want the RAM to be at 1600mhz, that's the only requirement for cheap ram. If you want to spend a little you can start looking at timings
    Yea it was me who wrote about TSX :P I have no clue how better TSX-NI is over TSX and there seem to be no tests for that, maybe we lack games currently. Don't forget that for example 4771 only launched 3rd quarter 2013 so it hasn't been even 6months, and games take 2-5 years to make.
    The TSX (base) was released only 2012 february, so even that hasn't been around for a long time. It's one of the reasons I bought 4771, I was buying it to last me 4-6years. Sure if I had a ton of cash I would probably buy new rigs each 2-4 years.
    To answer you, 4770k doesn't have any TSX, not just the fancier version, digging more I found this forum post:
    When speaking of game performance, valve mentions how Haswell CPU will help them quoted below:

    Quote:
    Intel Software Adrenaline (ISA): What are some key Haswell features that Valve will use, and how do these features change or improve the gaming experience?
    Newell: Of course, video games are about graphics. And with Haswell's great support for DirectX* 11 as well as the introduction of Intel® Iris™ graphics and Intel® Iris™ Pro graphics functionality, it makes our jobs a lot easier. We can now not only do what we've done in the past better and make games go faster, but also introduce new functionality across the board that we haven't been able to do before. - See more at: http://software.intel.com/sites/billboard/article/valve...

    This has something to do with the game developers taking advantage of the Haswell to improve performance. Remember that Intel has a non-disclosure agreement about classified information. Valve might possibly using TSX API to improve their performance in their games. This is only speculation, not facts.

    4770 is better than a 4770k if not overclocked.
    4770K is better than a 4770 if overclocked


    However, a 4770 that takes advantage of TSX supported software & games can be better than a overclocked 4770K.


    Right now, we need reliable benchmarks to dispute these claims above. I am not saying 4770K is a bad CPU. We only need more developers to take advantage of the TSX. If I was to overclock I might get the 4770K but I feel that the 4770K has a heat issue that I would wait for a better CPU. When it comes to gaming I do not see the need to overclock, I want a stable CPU and motherboard that lasts while I perform development, virtualization and security. That is the 4770.
    I do believe the bolded part, but yea I would buy 4770k if I was building now and I would OC the shit out of it
    or maybe not, 4771 runs at 3.9 and the only game so far that make it squeal is COD:Ghosts (this games uses CPU like a boss).

    If everything is OK to buy in the near-future, these are the things I want, right? z87 chipset, whatever RAM is cheapest (it doesn't matter), i7 processor, and a GTX with a "7" in front. =)
    if you go for non K i7 you don't need z87 so you can buy cheaper H87 (I got Asus H87 pro as it lists a lot of protection for my parts from electrical problems)

    Edit:
    Finally was able to determine 4770k vs 4771 @ stock speeds:
    Cinebench R15
    4771: 745
    4770k: 712
    both @3.5Ghz stock.

    Huge list I took the 4770k from:
    http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18546142

    Single thread

    197.Core i7 [email protected] - Tonester0011
    193.Core i5 [email protected] - pastymuncher
    188.Core i7 [email protected] - Uksoldierboy
    188.Core i5 [email protected] - Martini1991
    185.Core i7 [email protected] - Steampunk
    183.Core i7 3770k@5Ghz - Wazza300
    181.Core i7 [email protected] - Setter
    179.Core i5 3570k@5Ghz - RavenXXX2
    175.Core i5 [email protected] - Make
    170.Core i7 [email protected] - wazza300
    169.Core i7 [email protected] - Whyscotty
    162.Core i5 [email protected] - Frozennonva
    151. Core i7 [email protected] - my test
    [email protected] - nkata
    118.Xeon E3 [email protected](3.4GHZ Turbo) - CAT-THE-FIFTH
    112.Core 2 Quad9650@4Ghz - WingZero30
    [email protected] - Jonnyp1993
    109.Xeon X5650@noidea - flippant
    [email protected] - Jumper118
    Multi thread
    1610.Xeon X5650@noidea - flippant
    1292.Core i7 3930k@5Ghz - Kaapstad
    1248.Core i7 [email protected] 6cores/12 threads - wam7
    1001.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - Tonester0011
    [email protected] - Topdog555
    947.Core i7 [email protected] - Steampunk
    941.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - uksoldierboy
    922.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - teppic
    911.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - setter
    904.Core i7 3770k@5Ghz - 4cores/8 threads - Wazza300
    878.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - wazza300
    861.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - Nuclear Fusion
    856.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - teppic
    847.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - wazza300
    844.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - Tonester0011
    843.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - Whyscotty
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - nkata
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - GinG
    [email protected] - ALXAndy
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - Orch
    [email protected] - Pazza
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - ouzodan
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - GinG
    745.Core i7 [email protected] - my test
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - Pazza
    735.Core i5 [email protected] 4cores/4 threads - pastymuncher
    731.Core i5 [email protected] - Martini1991
    [email protected] 4modules/8 threads - ouzodan
    712.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - smilertoo
    695.Core i5 3570k@5Ghz - RavenXXX2
    665.Core i5 [email protected] - Make
    621.Core i5 [email protected] - Frozennonva
    [email protected] - Jonnyp1993
    527.Core i7 [email protected] 4cores/8 threads - humbug
    [email protected] - Jumper118
    471.Core 2 [email protected] - MeEsH BaKKA
    441.Core 2 Quad9650@4Ghz - WingZero30
    439.Xeon E3 [email protected] 4cores/4 threads - CAT-THE-FIFTH
    334.A10 [email protected] 2modules/4 threads - stulid
    301.Core i3 [email protected] - 2cores/4 threads - Wazza300
    96.Core 2 [email protected] - Stulid
    Cinebench uses multicores properly.
    I think this gives you better impression, when you see 4771@3.5Ghz (8 cores with HT) outperform i5.4670k@4.8GHz (4core cause no HT) how powerfull HT technology is, with software that utilizes it.
    Side note, seems [email protected] beats FX8230@5GHz on single core test. Heh.


    Edit #2:
    So I was comparing r9 (going for r9 270x as a replacedment for my r7 that I had to RMA) and r7 and I came upon this article:
    http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...ds-mantle.html
    Basicly, if you get the new R9/R7, the games would run 9 times faster, if they had Mantle option O.O
    Currently Frostbite 3 engine is/will support Mantle and it can be patched into already released games. Something to think about
    Games like Need for Speed: Rivals, Dragon Age Inquisition, Star Wars Battlefront and Battlefield 4 will all utilize the Frostbite 3 engine and could potentially include a Mantle option.
    Last edited by Cyrops; 2014-01-02 at 07:13 AM.

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