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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by McTurbo View Post
    I thought it was tab might have been another button.. but i was selecting enemies somehow it put a square box around them and brought their health bar up when you had them targeted. i put that one last because i was struggling to remember everything i did from about 15 hours of play.

    public dungeons were a disaster. yes a quest to into a dungeon finally.. you tromp through an empty dungeon fighting maybe 1 respawned enemy on the way to the bottom where you find 20 other people standing there waiting for the main npc to spawn.. get maybe 2-3 swings in.. walk back out of the empty dungeon and turn quest in... was horrible..
    well one thing I will agree with is that ESO is a lot more linear than the single player games. So in that respect it is very much like WoW.

    but overall I'd say Wildstar, other than the combat, is a lot more like WoW than ESO is.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    They gained 900k subs when MoP released. They did not gain 900k subs when cata was released iirc, I think only about 500k came back, so your wrong. While it is true they are losing alot more subs then they are gaining in both expansions, I never said they weren't.
    Actually the all time highest subscription figure was right after Cata launch, so its safe to assume a lot of people did come back then. They just left en-mass when they encountered the extremely difficult content, and didn't come back.

  3. #363
    Legendary! Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McTurbo View Post
    Craft Material Collection, from mining to herbalism exact same animations
    Questing,
    Quest Log,
    Quest NPC Markers,
    Quest Area Markers
    Button Activated Hotskills.
    Character Skill tree.. (based on weapon your wielding instead of spec you choose.. still a skill tree regardless of how you get to it.)
    NPC's in town with names such as
    Armor smith,
    Weapon Smith,
    Trade Goods Vendor,
    General Goods Vendor all in static spots that offer static goods (3/3 armor/weapon type based on the class youve chosen.
    Item Level Requirements.
    Tab Target

    while the world looked like elder scrolls it played like WoW .. putting a swing/block button on the mouse didn't fundamentally change anything. taking away the cursor to add that block swing makes the game feel clunkier .. and harder to navigate to the different menus (until you can get the cursor on screen that is)

    Ive played wow since august 2004, ive played skyrim, ive played oblivion, ive played morrowind, and back in the day i did briefly play daggerfall (not enough to claim to know much more than 2-3 hours of play) i think i can confidently state that the game play is simular to a standard WOW Style MMO (aka wow, rift, swtor) than it is to anything resembling the elder scrolls series.

    the game will sell huge.. and then die off fairly fast.. as it will sell based on the name.. but once players see the lie the developers are selling. expect some seriously angry gamers.
    On the other hand things that it does differently
    Locksmithing
    Werewolves
    Vampires
    Having to aim at the target
    NPC's that work together in a fight
    The entire skill system
    Attribute system as well
    Quite a bit of the PvP environment
    Public dungeons (I suppose at the very least it's instanced quest areas were anyone can enter and there are mobs)
    Morality & Criminality system (After release)
    The NPC Guild system
    Schools of magic

    And a good bit more
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Actually the all time highest subscription figure was right after Cata launch, so its safe to assume a lot of people did come back then. They just left en-mass when they encountered the extremely difficult content, and didn't come back.
    Well a few years ago, they mentioned they had roughly 20 million people who had played their game, so in that time from beginning to now, they have lost 13 million people. Take into account only about 4-5 million have left since cata, that's alot more who must have left prior to cata

  5. #365
    wow never had 20 million concurrent subscribers...

    you can make your point without inflating the numbers, come on now

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    wow never had 20 million concurrent subscribers...

    you can make your point without inflating the numbers, come on now
    I never said concurrent subscribers. try again.

  7. #367
    Legendary! Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I never said concurrent subscribers. try again.
    Based on this logic more people quite playing before WoTLK, when the game hit peak subscribers, than it has since, that being about 8-9 million lost before and just 5-6 million lost since. I can tell from these numbers that WoW has being going up in quality since WoTLK with this.
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  8. #368
    The MMO's you mentioned strongly remind me of SWTOR, TERA, Rift, FF XIV and even Aion (just to name a few).

    The whole 'wow-killer' concept has been talked about for over 8 years now and I see no reason why some people haven't had a look at history. I'm not implying nothing will dethrone WoW, but let's step back for a second and think about the times when people said this new MMO and that new MMO will be the next thing.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Based on this logic more people quite playing before WoTLK, when the game hit peak subscribers, than it has since, that being about 8-9 million lost before and just 5-6 million lost since. I can tell from these numbers that WoW has being going up in quality since WoTLK with this.
    Subscriber number doesn't equal quality of content imo. Kind of the McDonalds anolgy, sure they get alot of business, but the quality isn't great.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakoes View Post
    The MMO's you mentioned strongly remind me of SWTOR, TERA, Rift, FF XIV and even Aion (just to name a few).

    The whole 'wow-killer' concept has been talked about for over 8 years now and I see no reason why some people haven't had a look at history. I'm not implying nothing will dethrone WoW, but let's step back for a second and think about the times when people said this new MMO and that new MMO will be the next thing.
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.

  11. #371
    Legendary! Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.
    I never said it would be WoW killer just that it would be an awesome game, as far as ESO goes that is Wildstar can go burn in the garbage patch it came out of. Not saying you were referring to me just pointing out that you may be on to something
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  12. #372
    Thanks for the Wildstar tip, it looks a bit of whacky and cartooney, but it may be a good deal in the end. Although, it being a NCSoft title bodes nothing good.

    As for WoW, while it will definitely continue to bleed subs, it will still remain a juggernaut for at least 2-3 years more. With WAR, SWToR, Aion, AoC - all of those failing to "kill" WoW, I highly doubt that such a niche titles ESO or Wildstar will fare any better. ESO will just be too serious for it's own good, while Wildstar will have a hard time attracting the flock with it's overcartoony style.

    WoW will die, but it will be of a death caused due to an old age, really.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.
    I don't blame these people and I have nothing against them. It's natural to say that most people are always excited for new games and I'm sure some of us, whether they are former or current WoW players, are still actively seeking to play another MMO that lives up to its expectations and talk.

    I'm personally excited for the Elder Scrolls Online too, and will give it a try regardless of its success as I've always been a massive fan of Morrowind. But I still don't think those 2 games the OP mentioned will endanger Blizzard in any way, especially after hearing the positive reception of WoD.
    Last edited by Drakoes; 2013-12-31 at 09:36 PM.

  14. #374
    I expect EverQuest Next to become the next biggest player. It's the only MMO that truely seems to be worth the title of 'next-gen'. It'll probably draw a crowd because of it's minecraft-esque gameplay and it's heroic movement system which makes moving around feel much smoother and enjoyable than in WoW. (And people are extremely sensitive for smoothness of gameplay).
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  15. #375
    Banned Tucci's Avatar
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    WoW is just so fluid and the movement is great and responsive. Every MMO I see come out seems to make the same mistake of clunky movement and the combat and camera isn't as fluid. I've only really just watched videos though, I don't really play other MMO's but that's what it definitely seems like. Lol I remember this one guy arguing with me on Youtube about how GW2 was definitely the WoW killer. I told him it would die out not long after MoP dropped. Wonder what he's doing right now, probably playing WoW, lol.

    The only way any game is gonna actually pull people from WoW long-term is if it's similar to WoW in style and fluidity but with beautiful visuals and REALLY amazing content. Content quality like something Valve would make. I just don't see it happening. WoW has too many dedicated players, too much history, too many addons, too much story and lore. People have been working on their accounts for too damn long. The game is so big and rich now. People are gonna have to really want a reason to spend all their time on another MMO and if WoW doesn't give them one, I don't see many people leaving.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by McTurbo View Post
    I thought it was tab might have been another button.. but i was selecting enemies somehow it put a square box around them and brought their health bar up when you had them targeted. i put that one last because i was struggling to remember everything i did from about 15 hours of play.

    public dungeons were a disaster. yes a quest to into a dungeon finally.. you tromp through an empty dungeon fighting maybe 1 respawned enemy on the way to the bottom where you find 20 other people standing there waiting for the main npc to spawn.. get maybe 2-3 swings in.. walk back out of the empty dungeon and turn quest in... was horrible..

    Let me state this.. as an MMO it will be fine to other MMO players if they like elder scrolls.. their is just enough difference (like rift is to wow) to entice some players. its only horrible from the fact that they are advertising the game as skyrim online with friends.. when thats not the truth.. (even though thats what we want) as a standard mmo.. its kind of shallow.. the basics for an mmo is there.. but thats about it.
    good enough summary. People will be disappointed in general, though some will love it (at least if you saw the chat in beta). It doesn't feel ready for release in the slightest, and I didn't notice much difference between my first beta and last, with several months in between.

    That bolded part is the real issue that I have with it as well. I -wanted- a co-op mode with my wife, maybe some other friends. Even if this was that, it still wouldn't be 'Skyrim with friends' ... because it feels -nothing- like Skyrim/Oblivion. It just doesn't feel like a solid title. I mean, I've played a lot of MMOs on the market, and they all 'feel' better, look better than ESO (animations, scale) ... the only one I can recall feeling similar is Aion; and to a lesser extent EQ2.

    Unless the people surprise me; I expect ESO to go F2P/B2P in a relatively short time frame.


    I have no interest in W*. I have a passing interest in WoD; but because there are core gameplay changes I didn't like; highly unlikely I'd spend the money for the xpac and sub fee to test out whether I can tolerate it again. Doesn't mean it will fail; it just means that they are going to fall to a reasonable amount of players (not having such a gigantic lead). Others are going where they like, the competition is good for the genre, and losing subs is good for the game, especially since they are starting to stabilize. If they can settle at 6-7 million, that is still an amazing success for them; and it is good for other games to have 1-2 million each for the better ones, and 200-600k for the less than stellar ones.

  17. #377
    I'm a huge fan of WoW and I'm definitely interested in WoD. With that said I had never heard of Wildstar before this thread and I loved that trailer. My concern is that it will have the same issues as SWTOR: Great story and theme, but subpar gameplay. I know it's an uphill battle when WoW is so complex due to a decade of development and we all expect at least an equivalent experience in any new MMO but it doesn't stop me from hoping.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Yeah, console players will definitely terminate their wow subscription.
    Oh, wait.
    I didn't say that anything about WoW.

  19. #379
    Mechagnome Dooney's Avatar
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    Blizz is headed toward annual xpacs, so, don't expect the same pace as before. Blizz experienced a subscriber bonanza when Wotlk was released. Impossible to sustain those numbers over time. Cata could not keep them because it was rehash and Mop pissed off quite a few with storyline and gameplay. But yes, they are still below subs when compared to BC's climb.
    -I lost 6 million of my best friends because of Cataclysm. I will NEVER forgive Blizz for that.
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    -There ain't enough tequila in the universe to forget the insanity I experienced with Mists of Pandaria.
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  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    WoW is just so fluid and the movement is great and responsive. Every MMO I see come out seems to make the same mistake of clunky movement and the combat and camera isn't as fluid. I've only really just watched videos though, I don't really play other MMO's but that's what it definitely seems like.
    responsive and the movement is good in WoW I agree, but combat? I suppose for tab target, dice rolling combat it's pretty good but nothing special.

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