View Poll Results: Which one is harder?

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  • Lei Shen HC

    254 76.05%
  • Garrosh HC

    80 23.95%
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  1. #81
    Lei Shen was harder but Garrosh is taking most guilds far longer to kill just due to the length of the fight. Before our xmas break we were pushing close to Phase 3 and it's a long old fight every time you wipe, kinda rough considering there's another two phases ahead of us.

    Also, a lot of Lei Shen's difficulty was in the transition phases, so a lot of your wipes came early on, making for short fights and more attempts. Garrosh's difficulty is from those empowered whirls and that shitty terrace room (on 10 man if you don't have two druids) which both come quite a long way into the fight. It would be nice to have some sort of buff like on Sha of Fear for those longer fights, it is very boring to sit though six or seven minutes of the fight before getting to a point where you start learning it again.
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  2. #82

  3. #83
    The thing is with Lei shen was that in the first weeks you had no gear for it , afterwards there was the cloack from the quest and blizzard introduced the upgrades for gear and so while the boss remained the same in mechanics by giving those upgrades to players made the fight a lot more forgiving and easy . Garrosh didn't get nerfed like this and because it can't be roflstomped by gear like lei shen now it seems to be a lot harder. Depending on how far they got WoD blizz will nerf that fight soon enough i suppose.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnio View Post
    The thing is with Lei shen was that in the first weeks you had no gear for it , afterwards there was the cloack from the quest and blizzard introduced the upgrades for gear and so while the boss remained the same in mechanics by giving those upgrades to players made the fight a lot more forgiving and easy . Garrosh didn't get nerfed like this and because it can't be roflstomped by gear like lei shen now it seems to be a lot harder. Depending on how far they got WoD blizz will nerf that fight soon enough i suppose.
    Seeing how the major failing point of Lei Shen were transitions - and these were completely unaffected by cloaks - I'm not really convinced. It didn't matter if you crushed the boss in phase 1 and 2, you still needed to survive all his special abilities.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2014-01-02 at 06:42 PM.

  5. #85
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    I'm guessing 90% of the people voting haven't actually done either fight...
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by tobi100000 View Post
    Both Lei Shen and Garrosh in my opinion disappointed me when it comes to Heroic version, but atleast there was a boss after Lei Shen HC
    If you call a 1.3bn hp target dummy a boss, yeah

    OT: Lei Shen harder by miles gear appropriate
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  7. #87
    Isn't blackfuse like waaaaay harder than heroic garrosh?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephius View Post
    Isn't blackfuse like waaaaay harder than heroic garrosh?
    No. Not on either difficulty.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacteh View Post
    Garrosh was only hard on the gear check, killing at 570+ the fight is a joke. We could of probably killed garrosh with less gear than we had on the 1st kill with more time, however I don't think Lei Shen was possible with any less gear than what we had on the first kill. The whole reason Tier 16 was too easy stems from the ability to upgrade items during progress, guilds were too well geared making the first fights a joke. We probably even arrived at Garrosh with too much gear.
    Isn't t16 content balanced around item upgrades? the whole 500 attempt 1 heal garrosh for paragon at 566 seems extreme compared to ToT where people did fine enough without the +12 item level boost from 5.3, which still gave cutting edge rewards.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    Isn't t16 content balanced around item upgrades? the whole 500 attempt 1 heal garrosh for paragon at 566 seems extreme compared to ToT where people did fine enough without the +12 item level boost from 5.3, which still gave cutting edge rewards.
    Pacteh raids 25 man, Paragon raids 10 man ... but yeah Garrosh "10 man" was really extreme compared to 25 man Garrosh and even 25 Lei Shen. But that doesn't make it hard unfortunately.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    No. Not on either difficulty.
    Depends a bit on how you define difficulty.

    At reasonable gear levels (a.k.a. not Paragon ilvl), most guilds will spend more wipes on Siegecrafter but probably more time on Garrosh as the fight is longer.

    For example we spent 350+- wipes on Siegecrafter and 250+- on Garrosh. However siegecrafter is a 6 minute~ fight whereas Garrosh is about 14 minutes. That means to progress through each minute of the fight it took 58 wipes on Siegecrafter and only 18 wipes on Garrosh.

    At any given moment of the fight, siegecrafter is much more difficult than Garrosh, however the fight is shorter. All the mechanics on siegecrafter is also miles harder tha garrosh. What makes Garrosh difficult is simply the dps check and the length of the fight. In my opinion that is not something that I would classify as a 'difficult' fight, just more "Grind until you kill it". But of course opinions will differ on this.

    Atleast in my eyes Siegecrafter as a boss is a lot harder, but will probably take less time to kill.
    I was hugely disappointed in how easy and boring Garrosh was in terms of mechanics. It just felt like an endless waste of attempts due to lack of gear and dps until it died. I really expected more of Garrosh, especially after both Paragons and Siegecrafter being quite fun on heroic.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi100000 View Post
    Both Lei Shen and Garrosh in my opinion disappointed me when it comes to Heroic version, but atleast there was a boss after Lei Shen HC
    And from your words it clearly comes out that you have done none of the fights ever. The statement " at least after Lei Shen there was a boss" just proves that alone. Ra-den was nothing more than an oversized training dummy after you killed Lei Shen.
    OT: Lei Shen H >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garrosh H. Why? While Garrosh is a longer fight you can carry some of the " not so gifted" people through it, and this can not be said for Lei Shen: there everyone had to be top notch, or you wouldn't make last phase. But yeah, keeping people awake for the Garrosh fight is also taxing, but you can semi outgear the fight there and reach certain breakpoints to make the fight easier ( such as no 50+ energy in the second P2, only 1 Whirling Corruption in P3), which, yet again, can't be said for Lei Shen.

  13. #93
    Garrosh harder than Lei Shen imo.

    Garrosh itself is a fairly simple fight but there are a lot of small things that can cause a wipe. (Kite tank dying, add in Transition #1 getting a cast off, etc) compared to Lei Shen where as long as you just did the transitions correctly it wasn't a very difficult fight. I felt after doing Lei Shen for so long it was just "Move to A, Move to B, Move to C, repeat" and the transitions and everything were pretty much the same. Garrosh has other aspects to the fight that Lei Shen doesn't have which I like to see in end-tier bosses (Kiting, interrupts, move together as a group and rotate CDs to survive).

  14. #94
    leishen was more difficult in my opinion, more stuff to avoid!

  15. #95
    Both were pretty easy. :\

    The only difficult thing about Lei Shen was transitions. Any good progression guild could cheese them by bringing multiple warlocks and rogues, trivializing the majority of mechanics. With that being said, there is nothing difficult about Heroic Garrosh.

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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Glyphtics View Post
    Both were pretty easy. :\

    The only difficult thing about Lei Shen was transitions. Any good progression guild could cheese them by bringing multiple warlocks and rogues, trivializing the majority of mechanics. With that being said, there is nothing difficult about Heroic Garrosh.
    You think Lei Shen was easy? Its one of the most difficult bosses in the history of this game.

    You either have an extremely unrealistic expectation of how difficult they can possibly make these bosses or you got carried/killed it with a grp who had already killed it.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Mechanics: Lei Shen
    Gear check: Garrosh

    Pug difficulty: Garrosh >>>>> Lei Shen

    Lei Shen was super easy to pug because the only thing you had to pretty much survive was the 1st transition and then it was all good(assuming you disabled the chain lightning conduit). Garrosh is just a mess for pugs when Mind controls come in, and the adds from Empowered Whirlwind are pretty much the cause of all wipes...
    Very much agree with this.

    Garrosh is a giant gear check. His mechanics are incredibly simple and shortening the fight with as much DPS as possible makes the fight easier as avoiding further unavoidable raid damage like whirling corruption, the final phase, killing adds + weapon in the first phase/adds in the second and mind controlled people. He simply doesn't have many mechanical raid wipe abilities which can't be mitigated by good gear unlike Lei Shen who was entirely unforgiving for one raid members fuck up. The only actual mechanics are interrupting, focus firing, moving out the damn way of hard hitting stuff and stacking to clear MCs but it's the fact it is a long fight which makes it tricky so more DPS makes it shorter and hence easier. Honestly the only raid wide unforgiving mechanical ability Garrosh has in his encounter which can't be mitigated by gear is his MC if it snowballs out of control but it's so easily avoided by stacking.

    Lei Shen had a lot of mechanics in his fight. Positioning played an incredibly key role with making sure Thunderstrucks land in the correct location and the entire raid being a part of avoiding it. Also the whole raid had to know what they were doing for the second phase, making sure they were catching balls, making sure they didn't get pushed off the edge, stacking etc. It required quite a lot of communication and attention to mechanics. Especially in the last phase, making sure you get to warlock portals and thunderstrucks were placed correctly, positioning lightning whips in the correct place etc. It required quite a lot of mechanical skill instead of just straight up DPS. It required more brains hence making it harder in my opinion.

    Garrosh is a pretty straight forward gear check fight. Lei Shen requires knowledge of mechanics much more than Garrosh does.
    Last edited by Laventhia; 2014-01-05 at 04:25 AM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    You think Lei Shen was easy? Its one of the most difficult bosses in the history of this game.

    You either have an extremely unrealistic expectation of how difficult they can possibly make these bosses or you got carried/killed it with a grp who had already killed it.
    I did progression on the boss, killed it before you too, I believe.

    As a melee DPS the fight really isn't difficult, I only have to pay attention during transitions, rest of the time I can faceroll and go through the motions. It might of been hard for you, since you're in a 25 man guild it's probable that you're carrying a shit load of dead weight.
    Last edited by Glyphtics; 2014-01-05 at 01:40 PM.

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  19. #99
    Definitely gotta give it to Lei Shen HC. Everything was mechanically easier on Garrosh HC and when it comes down to difficulty, that's what it is about. Less things to keep track of and less stuff to avoid = easier difficulty.
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  20. #100
    lei shen, garrosh seems like more of a gearcheck type boss.

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