Building up the poverty stricken here in the US.

[Pachycrocuta]

Rampant bank fraud? Please. I saw someone use food stamps and then drive away in a fully functional car once.

I think maybe you meant to quote someone else?

[Wells]

I think maybe you meant to quote someone else?

Nope, no sarcasm tag.

[drwelfare]

You bring up two good points that stood out to me.

The first bolded is the crux of where we have disconnect about getting people more off of welfare in our society.
There is a multitude of reasons why people aren't holding jobs or have the ability to, and I swear to you the idea of the person not working being lazy is such a myth. I just don't see it. Hell, I see the opposite -there are so many folks who want jobs who have no realistic opportunity to be competitive in the job market. Either I see folks with either too much social stigma to ever get a job (criminal sexual conduct, violent criminal history, felony fraud), that even if they paid their time there really isn't a place from them in this civilized world, or that they are far too mentally or developmentally disabled to hold a job with any steady hours or without heavy coaching.

There are places that provide rehabilitation employment that liaison between the community employers and these individuals as well as provide education and job training, but well, nobody likes to put money in those coffers, at least not enough to make a big dent.


And that last part, yeah I agree. The transient homeless population is a tough crowd, used to doing whatever it takes to live. All those materials would be gone and spent before you had anything built.

That and just giving someone who has been transiently homeless a place to rest their head does nothing. There is a reason that they have been living on the streets for months or years, and without solving whatever that X factor is, you won't be doing a lick of good.

Some of those who say they can not get a job refuse to accept employment below their standards. Take someone with addiction problems who made $18/hr on one 6 month project and now refuses to accept less. Some times people need to accept what they can get at the time instead of waiting.

When my work is slow I use that time to scrap metal that I accumulate, it is not fun work and I wind up dirty, wet or sometimes bleeding but it is my fallback plan for slow periods.

[Ghostpanther]

I worked for a utility company once and a collector walked in and laughed about an acct that reached 5k. The acct was on New Albany Rd and anyone familiar with the area knows it is not cheap. The acct was being paid for by Uncle Sam.

https://www.google.com/#q=New+Albany...%2C+New+Jersey

Morale of the story.

Offer a child a suitcase full of sweets and they'll take it. Offer someone all of time and space and they'll take that too. Which is why you shouldn't. Which is why grown-ups were invented.-D. Who

Good point. Most people who know they are getting their utilities paid for will not make much effort to try to reduce it. They will leave their doors open...use more water than they need to, turn the heat setting up high and wear shorts and t shirts in the winter, etc.

The gap between the very rich and the middle/poor class is increasing mainly because the very rich are using cheaper wage workers overseas. Which in turn means less payroll tax for us here in the states and more unemployment.

[Pachycrocuta]

Nope, no sarcasm tag.

Not really sure how that applies to my comment, but *shrug*

[The Casualty]

I agree with you to an extent.

To be honest though, if I was a hiring manager I wouldn't be comfortable hiring a sexual predator, or a violent criminal.

It sucks for them, but honestly I can't bring myself to have pity for someone that would hurt/violate people in such a manner.

I don't blame you. I wouldn't either, and that's me saying that after helping these folks find as stable housing (thank god for slumlords who don't ask questions...sadly that's about as good as it gets), but if we as a society choose to let them out, we have to bear the brunt of what that takes, either suck it up and hire them, or not complain when they need food stamps because no one will hire them, and cash assistance because they are in the government mandated work programs that are just wasting their time and whomever we as taxpayers collectively hire to teach them skills that they can't use.

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Some of those who say they can not get a job refuse to accept employment below their standards. Take someone with addiction problems who made $18/hr on one 6 month project and now refuses to accept less. Some times people need to accept what they can get at the time instead of waiting.

When my work is slow I use that time to scrap metal that I accumulate, it is not fun work and I wind up dirty, wet or sometimes bleeding but it is my fallback plan for slow periods.

Um, part of my job is working with employment agencies or directly helping these people find jobs. I'd know if they were rejecting offers or not showing up to interviews. I'm telling you its not happening. At all.

[drwelfare]

Good point. Most people who know they are getting their utilities paid for will not make much effort to try to reduce it. They will leave their doors open...use more water than they need to, turn the heat setting up high and wear shorts and t shirts in the winter, etc.

The same is with foodstamps and such, give someone a fixed amount for a set period of time that can only be spent on food they will spend it all each month and not plan ahead.

Is it a better plan to give someone a lump sum of money for assistance, they can ration it out, spend it wisely and conserve it, or blow it all on scratch-off tickets. But thats all they will get once its gone no more help will be coming. Then instead of waiting for monthly checks they can use a portion of it to try and establish themselves and move from there. Or if they dont want to try and improve themselves they can use it to dig themselves in a hole.

[Theinquisition]

I don't blame you. I wouldn't either, and that's me saying that after helping these folks find as stable housing (thank god for slumlords who don't ask questions...sadly that's about as good as it gets), but if we as a society choose to let them out, we have to bear the brunt of what that takes, either suck it up and hire them, or not complain when they need food stamps because no one will hire them, and cash assistance because they are in the government mandated work programs that are just wasting their time and whomever we as taxpayers collectively hire to teach them skills that they can't use.

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Um, part of my job is working with employment agencies or directly helping these people find jobs. I'd know if they were rejecting offers or not showing up to interviews. I'm telling you its not happening. At all.

Kinda a catch 22.

For the excessively violent criminals, sexual predators, and rapists I'd just as soon exile them to a small island in the south pacific that's easily isolated. People that are willing to commit those type of crimes forfeit there right to live in normal society with everyone else.

That's just my 2 cents.

BTW add me im on steam as supertony51.....how's starbound?

[THE Bigzoman]

Hey man....that's a hard decision to make. Rims or rent....rims or rent.....hmmmmm, what to do what to do.

I wanna get laid this weekand. Rims will help me do so. Remenber when Dave Chappele equated nice looking cars to lures for women?

Gotcha bitch!

[drwelfare]

Um, part of my job is working with employment agencies or directly helping these people find jobs. I'd know if they were rejecting offers or not showing up to interviews. I'm telling you its not happening. At all.

You see them through a filter, you get the ones interested in seeking actual work and willing to accept work.

You have the others who want to sleep, stay drunk or high and wait for a job to knock on their door paying 200% the going rate and give them a company vehicle to use.

[BreakerOfWills]

The point remains, there are shitty people gaming the system at both ends, poor people just happen to not be able to get away with stealing near as much. That's just straight up fact. The mega rich dodging taxes costs the middle class far far FAR more than a few poor people with nice phones. Question, if there is so much desire to regulate just what a poor person can do with the little money they have, where are the laws that say that the same bankers who almost destroyed the economy with their shite weren't allowed under any circumstances to pay themselves bonuses.

[The Casualty]

Kinda a catch 22.

For the excessively violent criminals, sexual predators, and rapists I'd just as soon exile them to a small island in the south pacific that's easily isolated. People that are willing to commit those type of crimes forfeit there right to live in normal society with everyone else.

That's just my 2 cents.

BTW add me im on steam as supertony51.....how's starbound?

Sure. I wish I could say. All of my play time has been trying to get it to work. As I understand it's rather temperamental with Linux or Win 64 OS. It looks fun...one day. Hah.

[THE Bigzoman]

The point remains, there are shitty people gaming the system at both ends, poor people just happen to not be able to get away with stealing near as much. That's just straight up fact. The mega rich dodging taxes costs the middle class far far FAR more than a few poor people with nice phones. Question, if there is so much desire to regulate just what a poor person can do with the little money they have, where are the laws that say that the same bankers who almost destroyed the economy with their shite weren't allowed under any circumstances to pay themselves bonuses.

Isn't the disdain towards the big banks during the auto bailout mostly a bi-partisan thing?

[Deleted]

You said the rich aren't investing. What are you basing that on? Lending rates? That's a pretty weak number to base that conclusion on.

If they were investing there would be more jobs. There's no point investing if the government is going to tax you to death or will in the near future.

Why do you care about Wallstreet when they don't care about you? You can't use them to delude yourself into thinking the overall economy is fine when it's not. It's far, far from ideal. You are just trying to win an argument as always.

I could average out statistics to claim that men earn more than women but it still ignores the fact that few women want to work on oil platforms or join the military.

I just love how you twist the facts to support your argument. It's so disingenuous that it would make even Obama proud.

[The Casualty]

You see them through a filter, you get the ones interested in seeking actual work and willing to accept work.

You have the others who want to sleep, stay drunk or high and wait for a job to knock on their door paying 200% the going rate and give them a company vehicle to use.

Oh I'm not just for employment, my specialty is mental health treatment. I take all comers through the department of community health. Not everyone is able to work, or feels that they can. I've seen some folks not want to try thinking they were going to get disability, and I had to sit them down to have a heart to heart about they abilities from my POV, and their chance in hell at disability. Right now I have 50 clients on my caseload. Only 3 work. I'd like to see that number a lot higher, but finding jobs for that schizoaffective guy who talks to himself is harder than advertised. He's not sure he can do it, and I'm sure neither is an employer. I tell you right now though, that if he could find something that gave him pride in his life even one day a week, he'd be better off, and you as a taxpayer could write a smaller check for him to live off of.

[THE Bigzoman]

If they were investing there would be more jobs. There's no point investing if the government is going to tax you to death or will in the near future.

Why do you care about Wallstreet when they don't care about you? You can't use them to delude yourself into thinking the overall economy is fine when it's not. It's far, far from ideal. You are just trying to win an argument as always.

I could average out statistics to claim that men earn more than women but it still ignores the fact that few women want to work on oil platforms or join the military.

I just love how you twist the facts to support your argument. It's so disingenuous that it would make even Obama proud.

Firstly, investments aren't always directed at more labor being hired. Some are invested in capital growth, which can actually have the opposite effect.

Secondly, even if investment was directly brought into recruiting more labor, it doesn't mean that it's invested in the domestic labor within a country.

Finally, there really isn't a debate concerning the wage gap from economists as far as I can see. At least not in the sense that people tend to portray,

[Kraenen]

they're investing in derivatives and conquering companies in order to sell out american labour to cheap slaves over seas. but this is good and you only need worship the free marketeers so they may spray a few golden showers your way.

[Navillus]

[QUOTE=Wells;24543253]Yeah definetly no middle ground to be found there

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Which is why the stock market is in collapse right?

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The Government has been buying out stock to make it seem the economy is getting better.

[drwelfare]

Kinda a catch 22.

For the excessively violent criminals, sexual predators, and rapists I'd just as soon exile them to a small island in the south pacific that's easily isolated. People that are willing to commit those type of crimes forfeit there right to live in normal society with everyone else.

That's just my 2 cents.

Saw a man who got in a fight involving his wife got out of hand and ended up being aggravated assault (10years) worked in prison, learned spanish, and was seeking work but had problems because its considered one of the worse crimes.

Have a correction system and industry that people can actually work in and learn work ethic if they choose to. Have their performance documented and made available as a record employers can review. If you can see one person worked and performed well during their sentence they might be worth considering, if someone did not work or try then that is a different situation.
Leaving someone legally through restrictions where they are unable to support themselves seems crueler than execution.

[Pachycrocuta]

The same is with foodstamps and such, give someone a fixed amount for a set period of time that can only be spent on food they will spend it all each month and not plan ahead.

Is it a better plan to give someone a lump sum of money for assistance, they can ration it out, spend it wisely and conserve it, or blow it all on scratch-off tickets. But thats all they will get once its gone no more help will be coming. Then instead of waiting for monthly checks they can use a portion of it to try and establish themselves and move from there. Or if they dont want to try and improve themselves they can use it to dig themselves in a hole.

You want to know why people spend the entirety of their food stamps each month? Because if they didn't, then their monthly amount would be reduced. How do I know? Because I was on food stamps for 4 months while trying to find a job after being terminated from the job that allowed me to move out of my parents' house. I got $300, and I spent all $300 in 1 day for the entire month, on food for myself and my dogs. I even went to various church food banks. Only did that for 2 months, because I got tired of getting expired food and moldy bread (I got 1 year old peanut butter, 8 month old meat, etc). I tried to get on welfare (because I had no income, and was denied unemployment), but was refused because I was a single man with no children.

That is why they spend it all each month. I was told by the food stamp office people to make sure I spent it all because if I didn't, my food stamps would be reduced.