Wrongful termination?

[Diraction]

Most of the comments in this thread are, to put it delicately, obviously not written by a lawyer.

The posts that claim you're just out of luck because you can be fired for having a disability if you're an at-will employee are particularly off base. That's just completely and utterly wrong in the United States. Furthermore, your post doesn't say where you live and Canada doesn't even have at-will employment in the private sector (and they do have 7-11s).

It's not a coincidence that the only posts in this thread that make any sense are the ones written by a lawyer. Listen to him when he tells you to find your way to an employment lawyer (not just any lawyer), talk to that lawyer about what happened and get a real legal opinion about your case. No one on this thread (including me) can tell you how strong your case is, but it's certainly strong enough to warrant getting a real legal opinion.

[cubby]

Elucidate. Which part? I know for a fact that corporations are hiring more and more part timers and forcing a percentage of full timers to part time. And, I know for a fact corporations are scrutinizing current employees, some of which may have a condition similar to Lbueno, and will give them the pink slip because they see the potential for a incident down the road which could involve workers compensation. They usually aren't dumb enough to tell them why they were fired. The burden of proof will fall on the Plaintiff.

The part where you think you know about employment law. That part is what you got wrong.

Exactly, the burden of proof is on the Plaintiff.

Nope. You guys have got to stop thinking you know about employment law. It's an entirely different beast, sometimes even going against the grain of logic and other legal remedies.

[Ayla]

The part where you think you know about employment law. That part is what you got wrong.





Nope. You guys have got to stop thinking you know about employment law. It's an entirely different beast, sometimes even going against the grain of logic and other legal remedies.

For someone who posted on the last page they werent qualified in that area, you certainly call a lot of people wrong. Care to source them all?

[Vhoosh]

It's illegal to fire someone for having a disability even if they are an at-will worker. However, that will only stand in court if that was your official termination reason that was told to you and on your paperwork. On the other hand if they terminated you for any other valid reason (layoffs,infractions,etc), and there is enough evidence to give validation to their reason well then you really are SOL.

Well, your third sentence contradicts your second.

Oops. I fixed it

[Daerio]

It's illegal to fire someone for having a disability even if they are an at-will worker. However, that will only stand in court if that was your official termination reason that was told to you and on your paperwork. If they have your termination listed for any other reason and there is enough evidence to support it well then you really are SOL.

Well, your third sentence contradicts your second.

If you can prove to a jury, (not beyond a reasonable doubt like in a criminal trial, the burden is lower in civil court) then you could win a case based on being fired for having a disability, which is against the law in every state. It's certainly harder to prove in some states than others, as in some states they don't even need to give a reason why you were fired, whereas if they give a reason and you can prove it false, that looks a lot better for the plaintiff. More likely, if you have a reasonable case to go to trial with, they'll settle instead.

[Dolus]

The part where you think you know about employment law. That part is what you got wrong.





Nope. You guys have got to stop thinking you know about employment law. It's an entirely different beast, sometimes even going against the grain of logic and other legal remedies.

All you're saying is "you're wrong." Elucidate. Lbueno is insinuating he's being discriminated against based upon his disability and was wrongfully terminated. This all falls under the Disabilities Act and/or the Rehabilitation Act. I know what it all entails in regard to filing an ADA Title III complaint, a charge of discrimination with the EEOC, etc. My family is filled with lawyers, some have gone into the FBI. If he can get the "franchisee" to come forth as a witness and state that his medical condition played a role in their decision, then yes, he might have a case. If any credible employee can come forth as a witness he might have a shot -- "might." It's not a slam dunk case. Especially, when the corporation has unlimited resources at their disposal.


For future reference, Lbueno, an employer can not ask a job applicant if they have a disability. Never volunteer information.

Lbueno, you should definitely read:
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/epilepsy.cfm

[OzoAndIndi]

Well you could always tell a newspaper or something and raise a stink about it if you really wanted to. Though in the long run it probably isn't one worth fighting or drawing unwanted attention.

What kind of liablity did they think you even were? :\ I mean, I could see it if you were left to be the lone person there on an overnight shift, but otherwise, come on... really? Not like its Costco and have to climb up really tall ladders all day.

[Dolus]

Well you could always tell a newspaper or something and raise a stink about it if you really wanted to. Though in the long run it probably isn't one worth fighting or drawing unwanted attention.

What kind of liablity did they think you even were? :\ I mean, I could see it if you were left to be the lone person there on an overnight shift, but otherwise, come on... really? Not like its Costco and have to climb up really tall ladders all day.

Perhaps, if he was involved with delivering goods or operating machinery. If you are diagnosed with epilepsy you are usually either prohibited or restricted by most local laws from operating vehicles.

[Puck]

Exactly, the burden of proof is on the Plaintiff.

Haha no. Not when dealing with stuff like this.

It is actually the employer who has to prove the allegations false.

[Deleted]

PM me if you have any questions. I'm not kidding - you have a very good case (I am a lawyer).

This is NOT correct.

Ok then. I'm not sure your personal experience would qualify you to give sound advice in this matter.

The OP needs to talk to a professional and get all the details out to see if there is a case. IMO there is one, but the OP needs to talk with an employment law specialist in his state (might have a case both in State and Federal court).
Taking advice from someone who works for one, doesn't own one, and has never practiced law isn't the best course of action.

You told him there was no legal obligation - an opinion neither you nor I are qualified to give. I'm not devaluing your experiences (whatever the hell that means, lol), I'm trying to steer him from bad advice from people who don't know what they are talking about. I'm almost positive there are topics on which your advice would be much more salient than mine.

No, this is also NOT correct.

For a guy who's telling everyone to stop giving bad advice, you're sure spilling a lot yourself. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you know the intricacies of franchise- and employment laws, so stop calling the kettle black, pot.

[breadisfunny]

this is illegal. proving it however will be difficult.

[Novx]

Again, and with all due respect, this is NOT correct.

You people are trying to be armchair lawyers without all the facts or rules and regulations. The only answer this post needs to have is: see a local attorney.

Rather than sitting here replying to everything with "this is NOT correct", why don't you enlighten all of us with that IS correct. Personally I don't have any interest in getting involved with this thread but stop claiming others are "Armchair lawyers" and tell us what IS correct in this situation. You claim to be a lawyer, if so: tell us why the posters are wrong. Anyone behind a keyboard can claim to be a lawyer and tell everyone they are wrong...it isn't that hard.

[poser765]

So let me get this straight in my head. Franchisee loses his franchise because he got screwed by corporate. He then tells you you are going to get fired because of a disability, you then get fired but corporate doesn't tell you it's because of disability. My man, is it possible the previous owner had no clue what he was talking about and was just trying to start shit? Basically your only evidence they fired you based on a medical condition is the word of what is most likely a bitter prior owner. There are a myriad of reasons people get fired during ownership changes and you really have no idea why you did.

[Ciddy]

I imagine the tricky part would be PROVING that they fired you for your disability. You'd have to have it in writing or something, which they'd have to be really stupid to do. I'm no lawyer though. /shrug. I would advise you to talk to someone who is if you're serious about this.

[cubby]

Rather than sitting here replying to everything with "this is NOT correct", why don't you enlighten all of us with that IS correct. Personally I don't have any interest in getting involved with this thread but stop claiming others are "Armchair lawyers" and tell us what IS correct in this situation. You claim to be a lawyer, if so: tell us why the posters are wrong. Anyone behind a keyboard can claim to be a lawyer and tell everyone they are wrong...it isn't that hard.

For a guy who's telling everyone to stop giving bad advice, you're sure spilling a lot yourself. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you know the intricacies of franchise- and employment laws, so stop calling the kettle black, pot.

For someone who posted on the last page they werent qualified in that area, you certainly call a lot of people wrong. Care to source them all?

You guys all crack me up. I've never claimed to know what the answers are in this situation, even with my legal background. Anyone with legal training knows the answer to any situation is always "it depends". So people claiming to know what will happen (burden of proof on plaintiff, franchise laws, etc.) only further prove that they don't know what they are talking about. There have been certain statements by people in this thread that are so patently wrong that they need to be called out just in case someone else thinks the answer is correct. I know it seems a little crass and rude, to simply say "nope, try again", but in some posts it's the most prudent way to handle such obviously wrong answers.

If you had a legal background, you'd know that what I was saying is correct. If you don't, you can either choose to ignore what I'm saying (which, again, isn't "the answer", but only a path to the real solution - i.e. see a local attorney). I will not be laying out the three years of education I went through to get to this point so I can answer people who can't be bothered to learn things for themselves.

TLDR: Every legal situation is different, and needs to be addressed by a local attorney who can assess all the facts. Every initial legal answer to a situation is: it depends.

I will offer this, ask me a specific question about something I've claimed is wrong, and I will explain as much as I can. I will also try and source it.

One caveat: employment law is EXTREMELY convoluted, going against most "normal" grains of other legal arenas (for instance, burden of proof is on employer, not employee).

[darxide]

This is NOT correct.

If you think this then you're a crappy lawyer. The bar must be set pretty low (BA-DUM-TSSS) these days.

Which "we know about your epilepsy, you need to talk to management if you can keep you job" means.

If they had called him in over performance, or attendance, that would be another story, but they called him in over his disability, which unless otherwise documented, was not a problem before that point.

Like I said. Gotta prove it. You do know that's how the legal system works, right? On evidence?

Your answer is right here:

This really. You were most likely an "At-will" employee, which means they have the right to fire you and you have the right to quit with no notice or reason. Unless you can prove that there reason was discriminatory in nature with something other than your word, there's nothing you can do here, just move on. Unless your termination paperwork says, "Fired due to disability" or you have them on tape saying it's due to your epilepsy, sadly you don't stand a chance.

[Ausr]

Similar story to you from many years ago. Uncle had to let me go from the family business because they couldn't afford to pay me or the position I held ( I only just got a raise to 9.50$/hour, yeah), which I guess was fine because they were losing money. Although why they didn't just revert my raise back to the original amount, I'll never know. Anyway, after being told my position was just going to be done away with, figured no point in try to defend myself and left.

Turns out the fucker lied and hired someone else to fill the spot with my original pay. While probably no legal grounds on my story, I feel ya. Although the other employee he fired when she was pregnant, then trying to say she didn't want to come back after her birth (she did, made that very clear to them) had fun when she won a full year's salary from them.

[cubby]

If you think this then you're a crappy lawyer. The bar must be set pretty low (BA-DUM-TSSS) these days.

Lol, you don't even link the specific disagreement that you have issue with. Lovely. What I know for sure is that you have no legal training.

Like I said. Gotta prove it. You do know that's how the legal system works, right? On evidence?

You really need to stop talking about things that are beyond your training. You clearly have no exposure to employment law.

Your answer is right here:

Just proving again that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Ham on Rye]

I think you could sue them lol. If they specifically told you they had everyone else work new hours and then they hire 3 new people that's discrimination so long as you were doing a good job.

Whether you should sue them is a whole 'nother question, because it's gonna be a pain in the ass to get a lawyer.

If the case is a good one, I can assure you that it's not a pain in the ass to get a lawyer. In fact, it's pretty easy.

[Slybak]

So, I have something similar to epilepsy. I worked for a 711 for 3 1/2 years. It was a franchise for that time. At the end of the 3 1/2 years, it was changed back to corporate because they screwed the franchisee and he had to give it up. They found out what I had. There was about 6-7 of us that worked there with me being there the longest of all. I got a call on a Wed. from the franchisee telling me that they knew about my epilepsy and that I would have to go in and see if I could keep my job. I went in, talked to the guy, he told me they "filled all the positions" by giving more hours to the other guys. I talked to one of the guys I worked with a couple days later that they already had a new guy working overnight. Here, a couple weeks later, there's 2 new guys working there and there is a sign on the door that says, "Hiring for all positions."

If the guy would have been straight with me and said we don't want you to keep working here because you're a liability - which is what it is - I probably wouldn't care so much. But lying straight to my face kind of pisses me off a little more. Any thoughts or ideas if I'd have any kind of case against them?

Under the ADA (which covers epilepsy), which amended Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, terminating someone with a disability because they have a disability, and it can not be accommodated without presenting an undue hardship to the employer, is a prohibited action. The Federal agency that handles claims of workplace discrimination is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; you can learn about what they do and how to contact them, as well as file a formal complaint, through their website. Though New York is an At-Will-Employment state, disabilities are covered under Article 15 of the New York Code as a category for which termination is prohibited. The state agency that handles discrimination claims is the New York Division of Human Rights, which can be contacted through their website.

My advice is contact both agencies through the nearest local field offices (which you can find on their respective websites) and see what they say. Also contact a lawyer who has experience with workplace discrimination cases.