1. #1

    Thinking about changing from prot paladin to rogue. Have a few questions.

    Right now I am in a raiding guild thats pretty far in SoO. I have been a tank since wraths start and its getting kinda boring. Rogues have always interested me but I can never seem to get going with them. I have a few questions about rogues. I do have one at level 90.

    How easy are they to learn?
    Are they gear dependent?
    Are they worth taking over some other melee classes? (gotta think about the comp)
    Is there a time in the expansion when they will feel slow and boring rotation wise? (probably tied into the gear)
    Could I change between two specs easily? Ie sameish stat priority?
    Will they be viable at the start of an expansion?

  2. #2
    How easy are they to learn?
    All 3 specs are relatively easy to learn maybe sub would be the spec that requires more skill to play but that's only marginally.

    Are they gear dependent?
    I would say all melee classes are gear dependent since a lot of your damage is scales by attack power and weapon damage and weapons arent always the easier items to get.

    Are they worth taking over some other melee classes? (gotta think about the comp)
    Currently rogues are one of the best melee (if not the best) we have very good burst and also sustain damage until like other classes that have one of the other, a rogue has tool for almost all situations.

    Is there a time in the expansion when they will feel slow and boring rotation wise? (probably tied into the gear)
    A sin spec rogue is all about mastery and doing damage with your poison, so this game play is really slow paced and its easier to perfect a near perfect rotation. As for combat and sub they are much more about haste.

    Could I change between two specs easily? Ie sameish stat priority?
    It wouldn't be perfect but if you wanted to change between 2 specs i would have to be combat/sub since they are both agi/haste classes but he warned for these specs to be worth while you need the cool down reduction trinket for sha of pride.

    Will they be viable at the start of an expansion?
    I'm not really sure what you mean here but rogues haven't changed much since vanilla, they have had some low points but i would honestly say we are one of the best melee classes there is.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by serenida View Post
    Will they be viable at the start of an expansion?
    I'm not really sure what you mean here but rogues haven't changed much since vanilla, they have had some low points but i would honestly say we are one of the best melee classes there is.
    Boomkins at the start were in a really bad spot dps wise. Id be going rogue at the start of WoD. Can't really change mid expansion.

  4. #4
    ^Well said,
    Energy regen is low at the start of xpac so it's hard to hold on with other dps at the start of the xpac.
    Very gear dependant like any melee class
    Rogue as a lot of spells to get out of silly situation, Great in pvp.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Boomkins at the start were in a really bad spot dps wise. Id be going rogue at the start of WoD. Can't really change mid expansion.
    How can you possibly know before even a beta how a class is going to be next expansion? Your guess will be as good as anyone elses.

    End of WOTLK when the cata patch came, Rogues were hideously weak but it was fine because when they hit 85 things were fine. You really can't judge until you get to the max level of the expansion. Hell in DS after the patch as a tank I was doing 33k dps on Ultraxion without even taking stupid amounts of vengeance. Non-vengeance dps didn't stick around for long.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Boomkins at the start were in a really bad spot dps wise. Id be going rogue at the start of WoD. Can't really change mid expansion.
    I don't think any one can help you on that question then, since the WoD beta isn't open yet and no one knows how the new abilities will be and all this talk about making some of the less exciting abilities being passives for certain specs.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    How can you possibly know before even a beta how a class is going to be next expansion? Your guess will be as good as anyone elses.
    Well, no one could really know. Just going from the reason boomkins were not too great. I mean, later in the expansion you have more gear, more stats, and so you can have things like more energy regen then you would at the start. Just wandering if since the stats are naturally lower at the start then at the end of the rogues would be a bit low because of the available stats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by serenida View Post
    I don't think any one can help you on that question then, since the WoD beta isn't open yet and no one knows how the new abilities will be and all this talk about making some of the less exciting abilities being passives for certain specs.
    True. Just dont want to go from being a tank, a much needed role, to going into a dps that is having a bit of trouble keeping up because of the lower ilevels at the start.

  8. #8
    I would the only down side to a rogue is that we will have have one role, with the new changes to armor stats and stuff the hybrid classes will be able to preform more roles a lot easier. As blizzard have always said its bring the player and not the class, myself im not worried about how the rogue class will be even if we might be slightly low on the dps side we have huge arsenal of tools that will make up for it.
    A rogue will always be wanted no matter what and considering we are one of the lower populated classes guilds will be crying out for us.

  9. #9
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    Stopped tanking in cata, mained my rogue, leveled as sub, but am mutilate now, and have never looked back. Rogue is a unique class with good tools for any situation, almost.

    The only thing that has stopped my rogue play is the current love I'm feeling for my lock. And I only started playing the lock after my rogue had progressed as much as I realistically could, lol.

  10. #10
    With the latest changes to epic flying only available after first patch, everybody will roll rogue - to avoid combat for the entire span of 6.0 til the release of 6.1, which will probably last as long as 6 months+

    So unless you are skilled enough to pull your weight and be competitive with what you have(gears), you'd most likely be replaced by other more skillful rogues in a big guild, or get pressured by your guildies to go back to tanking.

    Even if you quit raiding, rogue is still most fun to play with, pvp wise, farming wise, ganking wise, griefing wise, it's the best.

    Just few examples, you can sap + blind + gouge 3 mobs and gather herbs/ores nodes in caves and vanish out without wasting time to kill a single mob.

    Ganking wise, you always get the first hit, if not, just burst of speed + cloak + vanish, no one could even dream of getting you.

    Even if you can't kill someone... you can grief, just by sapping them over and over, blind, gouge, distract, then sap again after 15sec DR...
    Last edited by glycerethe; 2014-01-01 at 05:09 PM.

  11. #11
    Theres no way the lack of flight has any impact on rogue population... and it certainly won't have any on raiding rogues because while you are doing that you are in a instance with a group who can't stealth by everything anyway.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Theres no way the lack of flight has any impact on rogue population... and it certainly won't have any on raiding rogues because while you are doing that you are in a instance with a group who can't stealth by everything anyway.
    Rolling a rogue = you have the decision/control to gank someone unexpected, and get away when ganked.

    Rolling something else = get ganked.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    Rolling a rogue = you have the decision/control to gank someone unexpected, and get away when ganked.

    Rolling something else = get ganked.
    Even if that was true 100% of the time, you are talking about a very, very small portion of total play time. Anyone that would play a class they like less for the 1% of the time they might be playing and some one jumps them is a fool. Especially your comment about raiders... and you couldn't fly in vanilla either but you didn't see this gigantic rogue population. You're just making stupid, ignorant comments probably in an attempt to mask lack of skill because you get ganked a lot in no-fly zones.

  14. #14
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    Rogues are very easy to learn, Assassination is the easiest spec in the game and combat isn't too hard either. You actually have to do stuff as sub though

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspectsftw View Post
    Rogues are very easy to learn, Assassination is the easiest spec in the game and combat isn't too hard either. You actually have to do stuff as sub though
    Frost dk, arms warr, destro lock. All are easier than assass I'd say

    Assass still ez though

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    How easy are they to learn?
    Most of their mechanics have been borrowed for other classes, so not that hard to learn. Learning when to be patient and when to hammer a move every global takes a part of it. Sub is hard to master, combat can sorta be but not out of line. Mutilate is a rather easy spec out of all specs in the game- you can play it at a higher level, but if you do so, the reward will not be much.

    Are they gear dependent?
    Rogues are very gear dependent. They are also surprisingly gear thirsty. You will want a combat weapon and two daggers. Then you'll ideally want a second combat weapon. You'll often (not this tier) want different trinkets by spec. It's not unreasonable, but collecting a bunch of gear that only has niche application is often odd. We also look to be heading into a real debacle with gearing in WoD.

    You need WEAPONS. Your rogue will hit limply until you have some daggers. Thankfully, daggers are easy to get, as they have to itemize enough for every rogue to get two, and no one else uses them.

    Are they worth taking over some other melee classes? (gotta think about the comp)
    Yes. Rogues can feint and cloak, and those give them serious tricks. They can do solid jobs eating many boss mechanics. The best pairing for a rogue in melee is a plate dps. There is 0 gear interaction, and the buffs mostly line up too (rets don't bring AP, but all bring 4% physical, and only DKs line up with 10% haste, and none of them bring spell damage). It's very difficult to slot them next to a windwalker, and kind of lame next to an enhance. Normally ferals are worth bringing by themselves, and as an added bonus you can easily share gear with them, but these other hybrids are kinda like ghetto rogues from a raid comp perspective.

    20 mans should fix this, and in 25 it is fine. In 25 melee spots are much more amicable to being swooshed one way or another. Rogues are definitely worth bringing in all difficulties and sizes, however. I will caution you that the community doesn't think so: my rogue main can waste away in oqueue but my druid alt can get picked up with 35+ item levels less- and that is just for flex.


    Is there a time in the expansion when they will feel slow and boring rotation wise? (probably tied into the gear)
    Rogues are designed around their maximum haste values. At those values, they are designed to not be quite global capped the whole fight. Since tiers are now 100 damned item levels, this means that when you first ding max level, you are so worthless as to be laughable. Rogues are worthless outside of raid gear. This isn't a big deal now, with free 496 gear giving you adequate stat levels. But if you run around in 463, you will note that not only is your damage poor, but your APM is very low. I prefer a low APM because it lets me put more damage into each attack, but at that item level you are poor damage compared to everyone.

    Could I change between two specs easily? Ie sameish stat priority?
    This varies, but overall yes. Right now mutilate has almost identical stat priorities in decent gear. At lower gear levels (and for aoe) mastery shines.

    Haste is either the top or second best for all specs. Generally no other secondary ever is more than 25% better than haste.

    Your bigger issue is having a combat weapon and also two daggers. If you just like mutilate and sub, then you just care about daggers.

    Will they be viable at the start of an expansion?
    They will be viable enough to get gear. Rogues are awful without raid gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    With the latest changes to epic flying only available after first patch, everybody will roll rogue
    So you seem to think rogues will move from the least populated class to... how populated? More than warlocks? Most popular? I mean, you said EVERYBODY....


    The lack of stealth being meaningful in the game world (stealth for all classes at max speed = flying mount) has likely contributed to the lack of rogues in the game. If this is what it takes to fix that, SUPER.



    But I doubt it will be that meaningful, given the short duration of it and the flexibility of the other classes.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    With the latest changes to epic flying only available after first patch, everybody will roll rogue - to avoid combat for the entire span of 6.0 til the release of 6.1, which will probably last as long as 6 months+

    So unless you are skilled enough to pull your weight and be competitive with what you have(gears), you'd most likely be replaced by other more skillful rogues in a big guild, or get pressured by your guildies to go back to tanking.

    Even if you quit raiding, rogue is still most fun to play with, pvp wise, farming wise, ganking wise, griefing wise, it's the best.

    Just few examples, you can sap + blind + gouge 3 mobs and gather herbs/ores nodes in caves and vanish out without wasting time to kill a single mob.

    Ganking wise, you always get the first hit, if not, just burst of speed + cloak + vanish, no one could even dream of getting you.

    Even if you can't kill someone... you can grief, just by sapping them over and over, blind, gouge, distract, then sap again after 15sec DR...


    This may be partially true, we might see an increase in druids and rogues.. the thing is, the people that switch for that reason are bads, they won't be able to DPS competitively in a raid or survive in PvP.

  18. #18
    I dunno, I see people switch to fotm things all the time with nothing but high arena ratings to show for it. I don't think any people will swap rogue for world pvp, though.

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